Which high day of worship for a Protestant??

[justasking4]

Love your neighbor as yourself is one of the 10 commandments?

Here is what Jesus said in verse 19
Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

This last part is what Jesus also challenged him with and it had a direct bearing on his wealth and his willingness to give it away to the poor. He was not willing to love the poor as himself. If he was, he would have given it to them and followed Christ.

 

[KJK80]

Here is what Jesus said in verse 19
Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

This last part is what Jesus also challenged him with and it had a direct bearing on his wealth and his willingness to give it away to the poor. He was not willing to love the poor as himself. If he was, he would have given it to them and followed Christ.

That’s not what I asked you… but ok…

 

[guanophore]

If a person truly believes the gospel he will not want to sin and follow Christ. People who think that they can keep on sinning and not worry about it and don’t pursue Christ are only fooling themselves. This is a good indication they never truly beleived to begin with.

So, will a person who is saved “want” to keep the ten commandments, or are they not really relevant at all?

Must a catholic believe all that the catholic church teaches to be saved? Must he believe that Mary was assumed into heaven to be saved for example?

At the great commission, Jesus instructed the Apostles to “teach them to obey ALL that I have commanded”. Why would a person want to do anything less?

Jesus challenged him in verse 18-19. Verse 19b was the one that i think showed he could not keep i.e. love your neighbor as yourself by giving up all his wealth to the poor.

Can you please show where this is part of the ten commandments?

We stiill have the sin principle in our bodies that causes us to that which we don’t want to do. See Romans 7:15-24. [/qutoe]

So, we are not really free from the slavery of sin?
justasking4;3492774:

They do apply in some cases but even here we are not able to always keep them perfectly. Until we get new resurrected bodies we will have to still contend with sin and evil.

So, you really don’t believe what the Bible says about baptism, and being dead to sin, when we are alive in Christ?

 

[guanophore]

Here is what Jesus said in verse 19
Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

This last part is what Jesus also challenged him with and it had a direct bearing on his wealth and his willingness to give it away to the poor. He was not willing to love the poor as himself. If he was, he would have given it to them and followed Christ.

But, where do you see this in the original 10? I agree that Jesus can add whatever he wants, but how is it that the man was disobedient?

 

[guanophore]

Then i must not have been clear. I Corinthians 15:1-4 lays out the specifics of the gospel and Romans 10:9-10 tells us how.
Is there more to the gospel message than this for catholics?

Catholics believe that Jesus meant what He said when He told the Apostles to obey all his commandments. We don’t take out a couple of verses and build a theology upon them. We also believe that the 10 commandments are still valid, and that includes honoring the Sabbath day, and keeping it holy.

 

[justasking4]

But, where do you see this in the original 10? I agree that Jesus can add whatever he wants, but how is it that the man was disobedient?

There are more than just the 10. Jeus was summing up the entire Law wihen He said-- love your neighbor as yourself. The man was disobeying this when he refused to give up his possession to the poor.

 

[justasking4]

Catholics believe that Jesus meant what He said when He told the Apostles to obey all his commandments. We don’t take out a couple of verses and build a theology upon them. We also believe that the 10 commandments are still valid, and that includes honoring the Sabbath day, and keeping it holy.

Do all catholic keep Saturday holy? If so how?

Must a catholic keep the 10 commandments perfectly to be saved?

 

[guanophore]

There are more than just the 10. Jeus was summing up the entire Law wihen He said-- love your neighbor as yourself. The man was disobeying this when he refused to give up his possession to the poor.

I agree,there are many more, but I am just talking about the decalogue. How would that man know that he had not followed all the commandments since childhood. On what basis do you say he was deceiving himself? Jesus did not rebuke him, but just gave him one more thing to do. (a “work” I might add)

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3492875]
Originally Posted by justasking4
There are more than just the 10. Jeus was summing up the entire Law wihen He said-- love your neighbor as yourself. The man was disobeying this when he refused to give up his possession to the poor.

guanophore
I agree,there are many more, but I am just talking about the decalogue. How would that man know that he had not followed all the commandments since childhood.

Notice the discussion Jesus has with this man. He asks a couple of pointed questions in verses 18-19. The man in verse 20 claims he has kept these.
Now in verse 20 Jesus wants to push him further and see if his claims are true by asking him to demonstrate that he really loves his neighbor as himself by giving all his possessions to his fellow man i.e. the poor and to put God first in his life by following Christ
In verse 22 the young man fails by going away greived.

On what basis do you say he was deceiving himself?

In verse 20 he claims to have kept the Law but after Jesus challenges him to apply that law to his life by giving up his possessions in verse 21 we see that he was not capable of loving his neighbor as himself as we see his response in verse 22. By doing this Jesus helped him to see that he had not nor was capable of keeping the Law.

Jesus did not rebuke him, but just gave him one more thing to do. (a “work” I might add)

Notice the response of the man in verse 22. He went away greived. Notice also in verses 23-24 that Jesus does not commend the man but warns how difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom. This clearly shows us the dangers of riches that causes us to trust in them instead of God.

 

[guanophore]

Notice the discussion Jesus has with this man. He asks a couple of pointed questions in verses 18-19. The man in verse 20 claims he has kept these.
Now in verse 20 Jesus wants to push him further and see if his claims are true by asking him to demonstrate that he really loves his neighbor as himself by giving all his possessions to his fellow man i.e. the poor and to put God first in his life by following Christ
In verse 22 the young man fails by going away greived.

The man never claimed to love his neighbor as himself. Jesus is pushing him further. Jesus is going beyond the 10 commandments. If you think otherwise, please show me:

Ex 20:4-17

4 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; 11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

13 "You shall not kill.

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

15 "You shall not steal.

16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ***, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Where does it say one should love one’s neighbor as oneself?

The man followed the commandments from his youth. Jesus did not dispute that. Jesus wanted to push him beyond the commandments.

In verse 20 he claims to have kept the Law but after Jesus challenges him to apply that law to his life by giving up his possessions in verse 21 we see that he was not capable of loving his neighbor as himself as we see his response in verse 22. By doing this Jesus helped him to see that he had not nor was capable of keeping the Law.

I agree that Jesus was challening him, but the man was not responsible for what had not been revealed. There is nothing in the decalogue about loving one’s neighbor as oneself. He kept the commandments as he was taught them.

The man did keep the law, but Jesus was trying to move him into the law of love, and he would not go.

Notice the response of the man in verse 22. He went away greived. Notice also in verses 23-24 that Jesus does not commend the man but warns how difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom. This clearly shows us the dangers of riches that causes us to trust in them instead of God.

Riches can be dangerous, but one must be mindful that the Jews in Jesus’ day believed that prosperity was from God,and that a man with many possessions was especially favored by God. That is why the apostles were so surprised. They believed that the rich, being highly favored of God, would enter the Kingdom first.

 

[meandean]

This is a question strictly for Protestant Christians…

If your day of church worship is Sunday, please prove this based on the Bible alone (sola scriptura). Please state where the command is that replaced the seventh day Sabbath command.

Likewise, if your day of church worship is Saturday/Sabbath, please prove from Biblical and Jewish sources, that as a non-Jew (either by birth or conversion) that it is proper to do so… and then, please show Biblically how you are to keep the Sabbath underthe new covenant.

There’s a lot of demands on Catholic’s lately to prove their beliefs by the Bible alone… However, I am flipping the coin, I would like to see Protestant’s prove one of their beliefs Biblically… Then we will go from there!

Thanks for your time!!

jesus is the lord of the sabbath. so why not worship him on everyday, why confine him to just one day?

 

[KJK80]

jesus is the lord of the sabbath. so why not worship him on everyday, why confine him to just one day?

Biblically, God defined Sabbath and made it a command–not me.

 

[meandean]

Biblically, God defined Sabbath and made it a command–not me.

who do you say jesus is, then? was he not refering to himself when he said" i am"…

 

[KJK80]

who do you say jesus is, then? was he not refering to himself when he said" i am"…

I’m not even sure where you’re going with this argument?

 

[guanophore]

who do you say jesus is, then? was he not refering to himself when he said" i am"…

That is just my point. The great “I Am” formed the Sabbath, and Jesus and His Apostles never changed it. Therefore, all Christians should be observing the Sabbath, should they not?

 

[meandean]

That is just my point. The great “I Am” formed the Sabbath, and Jesus and His Apostles never changed it. Therefore, all Christians should be observing the Sabbath, should they not?

we should be resting in the lord everyday. isn’t this what he refers to when he says i am the lord of the sabbath?

 

[meandean]

I’m not even sure where you’re going with this argument?

not trying to argue, your pointing to a certain day to rest, and i’m pointing to the lord to rest.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3492821]
Originally Posted by justasking4
If a person truly believes the gospel he will not want to sin and follow Christ. People who think that they can keep on sinning and not worry about it and don’t pursue Christ are only fooling themselves. This is a good indication they never truly beleived to begin with.

guanophore
So, will a person who is saved “want” to keep the ten commandments, or are they not really relevant at all?

They will want to keep them. Their attitude should be one of wanting to please God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Must a catholic believe all that the catholic church teaches to be saved? Must he believe that Mary was assumed into heaven to be saved for example?

guanophore
At the great commission, Jesus instructed the Apostles to “teach them to obey ALL that I have commanded”. Why would a person want to do anything less?

Jesus never commanded nor taught that men should pray to Mary, recieve indulgences, worry about purgatory, etc. All of these things and more are what the catholic teaches and was never part of the great commission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Jesus challenged him in verse 18-19. Verse 19b was the one that i think showed he could not keep i.e. love your neighbor as yourself by giving up all his wealth to the poor.

guanophore
Can you please show where this is part of the ten commandments?

Jesus summarized the Law in Matthew 22:37-40
37 And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
’40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Jesus summarized the Law in regards to our fellow man when He taught that loving your neighbor as your self.

justasking4;3492774] We stiill have the sin principle in our bodies that causes us to that which we don’t want to do. See Romans 7:15-24.
guanophore

So, we are not really free from the slavery of sin?

No. We are not longer slaves of sin since Christ has set us free. We still continue to sin though because we choose to rather than have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
They do apply in some cases but even here we are not able to always keep them perfectly. Until we get new resurrected bodies we will have to still contend with sin and evil.
guanophore
So, you really don’t believe what the Bible says about baptism, and being dead to sin, when we are alive in Christ?

No. I do believe these things…

 

[justasking4]

That is just my point. The great “I Am” formed the Sabbath, and Jesus and His Apostles never changed it. Therefore, all Christians should be observing the Sabbath, should they not?

What did the apostles teach in how we are to observe the Sabbath?

 

[guanophore]

Jesus never commanded nor taught that men should pray to Mary, recieve indulgences, worry about purgatory, etc. All of these things and more are what the catholic teaches and was never part of the great commission.

Since you were not there, how do you know? Do you think Mary never prayed along with the disciples? Do you think all she ever did was wash His clothes and fix His meals?

Purgatory is a reflection of God’s mercy and goodness. I can’t imagine why anyone would “worry” about it.

Jesus summarized the Law in Matthew 22:37-40
37 And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
’40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Jesus summarized the Law in regards to our fellow man when He taught that loving your neighbor as your self.

Yes, but my point is, this is new teaching from Jesus. The original decalogue that the man said he kept did not have that.

There is also no commandment from Jesus or the Apostles to move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Are people not being disobedient who don’t observe the Sabbath?

No. We are not longer slaves of sin since Christ has set us free. We still continue to sin though because we choose to rather than have to.

I am relieved to hear you say this.

What did the apostles teach in how we are to observe the Sabbath?

If one observes their actions as recorded in scripture, it is clear that they all kept the Jewish Sabbath faithfully, and never instructed anyone not to do so.