Which Homosexuals Are "Incurable"?

[Boy_Wonder]

I can agree with you that we are called to be compassionate and that these sins are on the same level as fornication. But I am not sure this whole accept them as they are business. Particularly when they are busy revelling in there “lifestyle” while asking me for compassion.

There but for the grace of God go you and I. How fortunate we are to have been spared this heavy cross.

By accept them as they are, I mean accept them with this orientation and without positing that they need to change the orientation. Their behavior is another thing. We should never be hostile but we must be compassionate and accepting - without condoning.

 

[shocktrooper]

It’s unclear whether sexual orientation can be changed. We can’t look at people with same sex attraction as someone who needs to be cured. They need to be loved and accepted as they are. Love and acceptance does not mean that we also condone their sexual activity, but neither do we call it out as worse than some forms of heterosexual activity outside of marriage.

Like all unmarried persons, people with same sex attraction are called to a life of chastity/celibacy. We must NEVER deride or insult them or call them names or judge them.

Jesus only issued one commandment: That we love each other as He loves us.
Jesus only forbad one thing: Judge not, that you shall not be judged.

As Catholics, we’re called to love and be compassionate.

Jesus also said to keep the commandments. He was referring to the 10 Commandments.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

Jesus also said to keep the commandments. He was referring to the 10 Commandments.

of course. I was never saying we should not. We’re called to love and to be absolutely faithful to God’s commandments. God’s job is to judge. We get into trouble when we assume that mantel ourselves.

 

[shocktrooper]

of course. I was never saying we should not. We’re called to love and to be absolutely faithful to God’s commandments. God’s job is to judge. We get into trouble when we assume that mantel ourselves.

Some people actually think Jesus did away with the 10 Commandments. Thanks for clarifying your position!

 

[sw85]

I think the idea of “homosexuals” in general is a kind of ontological error. The term didn’t exist and wasn’t used prior to its invention by the medical establishment in the 19th century, which is a problem if (as some people hold) it’s innate, fixed, and unchangeable. Previous societies recognized a masculine/feminine distinction corresponding, roughly, to penetrative/receptive sexual habits. Which, to me, seems more useful. Why else do we have large numbers of hypermasculine men with large harems of women who go to prison and promptly degenerate into anal rapists?

 

[speakttruth]

That is true what you are saying, no one is born this way and their is not one, but many factors biologically and enviromentally that causes SSA. My son had a brain tumor at five, is now 28 and this started the start of his problems physically and socially. It doesn’t matter like you said it is irrelevent and to what sin we are predispositioned to, we don’t act out on them. It is against what the Creator created. He made them male and female. Chastity is expected of all of us married and unmarried period and we all have to carry a cross. Jesus said we had to to follow him or we deny him. We can’t live on lies and feelings, but truths and intelligence.
www.couragerc.net This is the site that helps people and families struggling with SSA.
May God help this poor soul.

I’m just someone in the crowd here…but it seems that the ‘incurable’ aspect is somewhat irrelevent…fact is, as I understand it…we are called to be chaste…unless married, which we define as being in a Sacramental marriage one man and one woman…we are called to live chaste lives otherwise…so, regardless of your brother’s preference for gender or, same sex attraction…he should or, rathter could chose to live a chaste life…I’m certain that there are individuals on this site that could articulate the matter with a great deal more finese…but…plus, incurable suggests that homosexuality is a disease…that could or could not be cured…you might get some arguments here…just FYI, up until the 70’s …the DSM (diagnostic manual) used by the health care profession…DID in fact consider homosexuality a disease…the revised the manaul with the DSM3R…go figure…eh…? I mention, anecdotaly, I personally put no stock whatsoever in the APA (American Psych. Association), or the AMA in much of the positions regarding a great deal of what we consider moral…I know there are a group of Catholics who have same sex attraction but chose to live chaste lives…I saw a group on EWTN…and really admire these people I think they are a group that is called “Courage” Good luck and God Bless

 

[speakttruth]

You are not a race. You are not gay either. You have a Same sex attraction. You have been programmed by homosexual activists and your labeling yourself by your sexual preference. Gay was a made up to to make the homosexuals seem more happy, normal and slowly delude the public that it a normal life style. The activists have a play book on how to delude the public back 40 years ago. The book called after the ball. While you claim you can’t change, some have and like with any addiction to varying degrees, on going change is possible and some have been married and live happy heterosexual lives. Temptation is there for every sinner. But with faith anything can be overcome. If you say it biological is that an excuse to sin?
God made us male and female and to come together as one. Not male and male,not women and women. If by other means you think God made a mistake, look again at your own biology and then what a women would have. Compatible or not?. What you feel doesn’t equate to truth, but what the facts are do. If you truly are living a Catholic life do not call yourself gay, because that would be affirming what then world calls homosexuality. I don’t call myself, Hi I am straight. To lower yourself to your sexuality as what you do or want to do is demeaning to yourself. How is it important to tell someone who your attracted to or want to have sex with? So you want to be accepted in the world? Christ didn’t care about pleasing the world. He cared about pleasing God. Check out this site it will help you with your faith and obvious struggle with accepting the truth.
www.couragerc.net May God help you.

You must not know any openly gay or lesbian friends or family members. Well let me introduce myself, a gay Catholic living in Michigan. I can assure you that just as I am ethnically Chaldean, my sexual orientation is gay.

Sexual orientation is definitely biological, assuming you have experienced sexual attraction to the opposite sex, I have that same attraction to the same sex and none towards the opposite. Some people may be attracted to both, some to neither. It is unacceptable to think one can just change their orientation as God has made them is completely unfounded, so please accept the reality that sexual orientation is as unchangeable as race.

God bless.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

You are not a race. You are not gay either. You have a Same sex attraction. You have been programmed by homosexual activists and your labeling yourself by your sexual preference. Gay was a made up to to make the homosexuals seem more happy, normal and slowly delude the public that it a normal life style. The activists have a play book on how to delude the public back 40 years ago. The book called after the ball. While you claim you can’t change, some have and like with any addiction to varying degrees, on going change is possible and some have been married and live happy heterosexual lives. Temptation is there for every sinner. But with faith anything can be overcome. If you say it biological is that an excuse to sin?
God made us male and female and to come together as one. Not male and male,not women and women. If by other means you think God made a mistake, look again at your own biology and then what a women would have. Compatible or not?. What you feel doesn’t equate to truth, but what the facts are do. If you truly are living a Catholic life do not call yourself gay, because that would be affirming what then world calls homosexuality. I don’t call myself, Hi I am straight. To lower yourself to your sexuality as what you do or want to do is demeaning to yourself. How is it important to tell someone who your attracted to or want to have sex with? So you want to be accepted in the world? Christ didn’t care about pleasing the world. He cared about pleasing God. Check out this site it will help you with your faith and obvious struggle with accepting the truth.
www.couragerc.net May God help you.

The fact remains the man you’re responding to has a homosexual orientation. Whether the source is biological or environmental, the fact remains that this orientation is immutable. Telling him this a\is unnatural is not very kind, nor does it help much. He has this challenge in his life. We do not. There but for the grace of God go you and I. Our job is not to judge, but to love and accept.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

The lack of charitable responses on here is a disappointment as usual.

One person has said it’s all a choice. Another has said homosexuals don’t exist. Another has called it an addiction (how could it be? I’ve always been celibate and still have a homosexual orientation).

As a celibate homosexual I can assure you the Catholic Church distinguishes between thoughts and actions. Only homosexual acts are sinful. A homosexual orientation (or “tendency” as Church language would call it) is not sinful although it is “objectively disordered.” However it is not a pathology because the Church views a person with a homosexual orientation as not disordered (it’s pretty confusing at times).

Now onto change. Some will claim homosexuality can be treated and “cured.” Personally I spent two years in so called “ex-gay” therapy and my orientation only got stronger and I was really hurt. Advocates of ex-gay therapy like Joseph Nicolsi will scream at the top of their lungs that no one ever gets hurt. But I can testify there are those like me who have been hurt by it. Other people may have a more positive experience.

I’m not going to say “changing sexuality” is impossible or is possible. I can only say it didn’t work for me and that I was hurt by the experience.

Celibacy (or as Catholics call it “chastity”) is fair by an easier option (and if I had my way if would be the only option available).

You know I’m a celibate homosexual. I never changed my sexual orientation.

Thanks for your patience and courage. God bless you. Ignore those who don’t understand. You are fighting the good fight. I admire that.

 

[Sandy_dfw]

.

Jesus only issued one commandment: That we love each other as He loves us.
Jesus only forbad one thing: Judge not, that you shall not be judged.

As Catholics, we’re called to love and be compassionate.

I agree, it is not our job to judge just to love and be compassionate

 

[Boy_Wonder]

I agree, it is not our job to judge just to love and be compassionate

Sexual sins are one area where everyone falls short. Each of us has repeatedly sinned against chastity in one way or another (even if only in thought/desire). Who among us can cast the first stone?

Those of use who are heterosexual at least have the option to marry and enjoy sexual relations. Not so for our homosexual brothers and sisters. Therefore, we should be very compassionate to those with a homosexual orientation because they are called not only to chastity (along with the rest of us) but also to lifelong celibacy. It’s a high bar. Therefore it’s better to pray for them to find the grace and fortitude to live their lives in accordance with God’s law rather than to go on and on about how unnnatural and disordered their sexual orientation is.

Ubi Caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.

 

[speakttruth]

The fact remains the man you’re responding to has a homosexual orientation. Whether the source is biological or environmental, the fact remains that this orientation is immutable. Telling him this a\is unnatural is not very kind, nor does it help much. He has this challenge in his life. We do not. There but for the grace of God go you and I. Our job is not to judge, but to love and accept.

I thought I was being kind, maybe you don’t think this is such a big deal, but I known first hand about it. I am a parent to one. How dangerous this is as a life style and for anyone who has this and is truly trying to live a holy life, they are like a hero’s to me. Love isn’t about being fuzzy and sweet. And what are you accepting? I accept the person, but I don’t have to accept sin, but don’t you think he shouldn’t be informed? Jesus was pretty clear when he spoke about hell and sin. We are to judge right and wrong. I wasn’t judging him to hell, that’s God’s job. Take the log out of your eye and then take the speck out of mine. Your judging me. I care very much for the struggle of these men and women, but to be very clear about the seriousness of this I am being charitable, by telling the truth out of love… This life style that is so accepted by the public is killing more men at a higher rate with Aids and STD’s, I don’t want more to die.
It is not immutable. That is not a fact. So your saying not even one percent can change? So the ones that want to should just give up? It seems like in every situation when someone doesn’t like to hear the truth, people like to shut you up, by calling you uncharitable and judgmental. That is a tactic,used by so many people that are accepting this life. Jesus was not meek in the temple and he spoke the truth. If anyone was charitable it was Jesus.
I hope you will be less judgmental of me.
God Bless

 

[dshix]

I thought I was being kind, maybe you don’t think this is such a big deal, but I known first hand about it. I am a parent to one. How dangerous this is as a life style and for anyone who has this and is truly trying to live a holy life, they are like a hero’s to me. Love isn’t about being fuzzy and sweet. And what are you accepting? I accept the person, but I don’t have to accept sin, but don’t you think he shouldn’t be informed? Jesus was pretty clear when he spoke about hell and sin. We are to judge right and wrong. I wasn’t judging him to hell, that’s God’s job. Take the log out of your eye and then take the speck out of mine. Your judging me. I care very much for the struggle of these men and women, but to be very clear about the seriousness of this I am being charitable, by telling the truth out of love… This life style that is so accepted by the public is killing more men at a higher rate with Aids and STD’s, I don’t want more to die.
It is not immutable. That is not a fact. So your saying not even one percent can change? So the ones that want to should just give up? It seems like in every situation when someone doesn’t like to hear the truth, people like to shut you up, by calling you uncharitable and judgmental. That is a tactic,used by so many people that are accepting this life. Jesus was not meek in the temple and he spoke the truth. If anyone was charitable it was Jesus.
I hope you will be less judgmental of me.
God Bless

+10:thumbsup:

 

[John_of_Woking]

I thought I was being kind, maybe you don’t think this is such a big deal, but I known first hand about it. I am a parent to one. How dangerous this is as a life style and for anyone who has this and is truly trying to live a holy life, they are like a hero’s to me. Love isn’t about being fuzzy and sweet. And what are you accepting? I accept the person, but I don’t have to accept sin, but don’t you think he shouldn’t be informed? Jesus was pretty clear when he spoke about hell and sin. We are to judge right and wrong. I wasn’t judging him to hell, that’s God’s job. Take the log out of your eye and then take the speck out of mine. Your judging me. I care very much for the struggle of these men and women, but to be very clear about the seriousness of this I am being charitable, by telling the truth out of love… This life style that is so accepted by the public is killing more men at a higher rate with Aids and STD’s, I don’t want more to die.
It is not immutable. That is not a fact. So your saying not even one percent can change? So the ones that want to should just give up? It seems like in every situation when someone doesn’t like to hear the truth, people like to shut you up, by calling you uncharitable and judgmental. That is a tactic,used by so many people that are accepting this life. Jesus was not meek in the temple and he spoke the truth. If anyone was charitable it was Jesus.
I hope you will be less judgmental of me.
God Bless

 

[Boy_Wonder]

It is not immutable. That is not a fact. So your saying not even one percent can change? So the ones that want to should just give up? It seems like in every situation when someone doesn’t like to hear the truth, people like to shut you up, by calling you uncharitable and judgmental. That is a tactic,used by so many people that are accepting this life. Jesus was not meek in the temple and he spoke the truth. If anyone was charitable it was Jesus.
I hope you will be less judgmental of me.
God Bless

In most instances, sexual orientation cannot be altered by force of wil or therapy or prayer. it is what it is. Those with a homosexual orientation, like all non-married people, are called to celibacy. Badgering them to change does not help. Encouraging them and supporting them in their attempts to lead a chaste life is the better course. if that’s something they’re unwilling to do, then we must pray for them and treat them with love and dignity. Nagging and scolding will drive them away rather than towards God. Look at Monica and Ambrose. They engaged Augustine and prayed for him and loved him rather than badgering him. He eventually came around and became one of the greatest saints ever.

 

[speakttruth]

In most instances, sexual orientation cannot be altered by force of will or therapy or prayer. it is what it is. Those with a homosexual orientation, like all non-married people, are called to celibacy. Badgering them to change does not help. Encouraging them and supporting them in their attempts to lead a chaste life is the better course. if that’s something they’re unwilling to do, then we must pray for them and treat them with love and dignity. Nagging and scolding will drive them away rather than toward God. Look at Monica and Ambrose. They engaged Augustine and prayed for him and loved him rather than badgering him. He eventually came around and became one of the greatest saints ever.

Actually, St. Monica did constantly go after her son and tell him about his lifestyle. Not only her son, but her husband too, and I believe her mother in law as well, which she helped convert before she died. She never ceased for a minute, not in just prayers. Why do you think her son left her behind and went to Rome without her? She never stopped trying to convert him, but with her prayers as well and many many tears, He had his conversion there. Her efforts were not in vain. It says all mother tears like St. Monica’s, are stored in heaven…

  We have been sitting back as conservatives and have been intimated by the world and people who don't like the truth to shut us up.

We should love everyone’s dignity, not just a select few. Jesus didn’t lie to people to make them feel good. In fact he was very harsh by today’s standards, maybe people would think he was nagging or badgering instead of proclaiming the truth about hell and sin, but Jesus was the most charitable human that every lived and still does. That is why we are in trouble today. Because it’s all about Feelings, not the truth!

Every Martyr that became a Saint out there didn’t just sit back and just pray, they proclaim the truth even to death. They were not afraid because they knew the right thing to do.

We don’t have time to sit back and wait to say all the Political Correct Words and Enable more people. I know what is at stake. I am here to fight for my soul and the souls of my loved ones and the souls of so many that really don’t know what is at stake, with the grace of God by my side to help me and to do what ever he wants me to do.

In Humility we should know we can do nothing by ourselves. With every situation that we all struggle with even for SSA with God all things are possible. I wouldn’t discourage anyone who wants to rid themselves of the Feelings of their SSA. Some want to be married and have children the way God intended for human beings. People have no idea how many have already done this and they don’t yell about because of all the Activists that will harass them. They have dealt with the many emotional problems that most all have that are SSA and turned their life over to God. That should be an encouragement that it is not hopeless like all the activists would have you believe or people who out of guilt sympathize with that life style because of their own sins. It is not about curing people, sin and temptation will be always here, but we can free ourselves from it when we turn our lives over to Christ. He promises to make us new again as if we were reborn. We are all called to Chasity, married or not.

When I stand before Jesus on judgment day, I want to hear, Well done my good and faithful servant. Come enter the gates of heaven. That is one of my many prayers, not only for myself, but for everyone else as well.
God bless

 

[Robert_Sock]

I often hear it said the we are sexual beings, but I claim that we are spiritual beings. Once the spiritual experiences begin, the sexual experiences will cease.

 

[Rau]

I thought I was being kind, maybe you don’t think this is such a big deal, but I known first hand about it. I am a parent to one.

If I’ve understand your post, you are saying you have a homosexual child? Are you able to share any of his/her perspective or outlook on their circumstance? Do they view their orientation as a choice or innate? What is their perspective on the appropriateness or acting on their orientation?

 

[Boy_Wonder]

I often hear it said the we are sexual beings, but I claim that we are spiritual beings. Once the spiritual experiences begin, the sexual experiences will cease.

Not cease. They will become properly ordered according to God’s will. If we are married, then sex is a holy and good thing. Not dirty or degrading to the spirit.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

To ask if homosexuality is “curable” suggests that it is a disease, which it is not.

Rather, homosexuality is a behavior, and as with all habitual behaviors it can be very difficult to uproot. As with any habit, it takes dedicated effort and trouble to get rid of it. With sexual actions, in particular, it is very hard to get rid of because it has such a strong appeal to the human brain.

It is not impossible for your brother to become straight again; it will just take effort on HIS part to make it happen, and prayer on your part to help him do it.

The definition of homosexuality is not a behaviour, indeed the -ity suffix should tell you that

You just invented two things, a) that he must have been straight in the first place and b) that all people like that can become attracted to the opposite sex.

snip

It is clear you were badly catechized from that post (or are very inarticulate), but not much else.

Just to make it clear, it is totally impossible he’ll become straight. Prayer cannot change biology. Accept him for who he is and openly discuss your lives with each other as siblings should.

God bless.

It isn’t impossible, but that doesn’t make it a non-negligible chance.

You must not know any openly gay or lesbian friends or family members. Well let me introduce myself, a gay Catholic living in Michigan. I can assure you that just as I am ethnically Chaldean, my sexual orientation is gay.

Sexual orientation is definitely biological, assuming you have experienced sexual attraction to the opposite sex, I have that same attraction to the same sex and none towards the opposite. Some people may be attracted to both, some to neither. It is unacceptable to think one can just change their orientation as God has made them is completely unfounded, so please accept the reality that sexual orientation is as unchangeable as race.

God bless.

Are you chaste?

snip

He isn’t being internally consistent; you are confusing non-identical things.

okay you don’t know the cause of homosexuality then why are you claiming it is biological. secondly (your second comment) there is a whole lot of ifs there. even granting that no the mind is not Part of the body. that is the difference between psychology and biology. its a cancer that’s biology, if its like schizophrenia that is like psychology and has nothing to do with biology.

Third no there can be many causes of homosexuality that have nothing to do with each other. Looking for the causes of the 20% does not discount that we have already drawn conclusions about what pain is doing to cause 80% of the problem. Nor do I have to account for the 20% to point out that 80% are suffering from serious problems we can in fact do something about.

Here is some more common ground for you.

As he soberly puts it, “there appear to be plenty of failed heterosexual unions in the data,” in which many of the children of mothers who had same-sex relationships “spend their early years with their biological mother and father” before those relationships occur. Regnerus’s findings do not obscure the realities of family and sexuality in our society; they illuminate them

This is the best study done to date and he could not find the heterosexual family counterpart in the homosexual family only 2 cases were found where the family homosexual unit stayed together when the children we adults.
This clearly demonstrates the transitory nature of the relationship.

People who suffer from SSA often change there orientation to become homosexual without ever having had such an inclination before. and vice versa.

lifesitenews.com/news/the-vindication-of-mark-regnerus

and ps I used this article because the work has in fact been vindicated of all the charges the LGBT crowd threw at it. but like I said what is missing from the data is as startling as what his findings were.

Now that you have evidence of homosexuals changing there orientation perhaps you can stop saying you don’t know. I am glad we came to an understanding.

up to 80%≠80%

A major reason he only found two is because children born to a homosexual couple are negligible in number.

No, just as there is no study that states with certainty that homosexuality stems from any other problem.

I have said all I wanted to say on this topic. I will no longer be posting here.

I think the idea of “homosexuals” in general is a kind of ontological error. The term didn’t exist and wasn’t used prior to its invention by the medical establishment in the 19th century, which is a problem if (as some people hold) it’s innate, fixed, and unchangeable. Previous societies recognized a masculine/feminine distinction corresponding, roughly, to penetrative/receptive sexual habits. Which, to me, seems more useful. Why else do we have large numbers of hypermasculine men with large harems of women who go to prison and promptly degenerate into anal rapists?

Perhaps it’s because hedonists when denied their usual avenue of pleasure seek alternative means.

snip

Does your son still refuse to speak to you because you in his eyes denied him as a person?