Which Homosexuals Are "Incurable"?

[epan]

Epan,

Physics is science with Mathamatical components that are nothing more than obsevation and description of what is already there…

Zoology/Biology/Botany…Evolution is not Physics…it is observation…

Yes, Indeed I know better than this…do you?

I disagree with you, and I think most physicists would too.

 

[epan]

and once again lets completely confuse the issue so that nobody really understands what is being debated but you “win” some meaningless conversation. MACRO evolution has never been proven. species to species jumps have NEVER been seen or verified by anyone. Nor has any missing link of any species ever been verified. Every once in a while something comes out of china some guy gets a million dollars for his discovery and then a year later everybody finds out it was a big hoax. Micro evolution (change inside a species) is well proven. viruses change to be more deadly taking on plasmids ect… birds and beak sizes changing with the winter and summer months. lobster and mollusk arms race.

yes thats all quite true, but nobody has ever extended that theory to the macro level. It has become difficult to imagine anyone ever will be able to given what we now know about the nature of DNA. The unexplainable 12 encyclopedias of information present in the most ancient simplest creature ever on the planet.

If you use the terms properly, macroevolution is evolution over long periods of time, like on a geologic time frame, and microevolution over a shorter time frame. I don’t think that most biologists distinguish between the two much, as they are the same thing biologically.

I have heard of some misuse of the words, and some rather vague definitions alleging the impossibility of speciation. But, evolution beyond the species level has been observed in the laboratory and in the field.

What do you mean by “species jump”, please? I have only heard that used when referring to viruses jumping species boundaries. as in H5N1, or HIV. I suspect that you mean the evolution of a species, but I would like to be certain.

 

[CopticChristian]

I disagree with you, and I think most physicists would too.

Epan,

What disagreement would a Pysicist offer?

 

[speakttruth]

You need a program to keep track of the supporters and the detractors of reparative therapy. No doubt, there are many who are detractors out of political correctness. There have also been some practitioners who have resorted to techniques which could be called torture. Some who have praised it in the past, have retracted their statements. Some who have vilified it, now support it. It is a complicated topic.

My take on it, as that like any sort of psychotherapy, results are not easy, and there is a high recidivism rate. I would neither discourage nor encourage anyone to try it, just because I don’t understand it, and it is so controversial. But I respect the right of anyone to try it. I hope that any practitioner would be ethical, and respect the patient. Full disclosure, as to the prognosis, and the course of treatment, would be important.

Nicolosi, said it really isn’t called reparative therapy and shouldn’t be, he said that the reparative part came from reparing the damage done to the person’s sexuality, not cure. He wrote a response to a show Dr. Oz, that didn’t air what he said about therapy and I just read it a couple of weeks ago… I have to find it to give you his exact response. It was sent in my Encourage newletter.
GB

 

[CopticChristian]

Nicolosi, said it really isn’t called reparative therapy and shouldn’t be, he said that the reparative part came from reparing the damage done to the person’s sexuality, not cure. He wrote a response to a show Dr. Oz, that didn’t air what he said about therapy and I just read it a couple of weeks ago… I have to find it to give you his exact response. It was sent in my Encourage newletter.
GB

Speak,

Everyone should get Nicolosi’s books, I have, read them and understand that it is the “reparative process” that the individual is going through and the therapy is addressed to the individual that is going through that process…

 

[Elizabeth502]

Nicolosi, said it really isn’t called reparative therapy and shouldn’t be, he said that the reparative part came from reparing the damage done to the person’s sexuality, not cure. He wrote a response to a show Dr. Oz, that didn’t air what he said about therapy and I just read it a couple of weeks ago… I have to find it to give you his exact response. It was sent in my Encourage newletter.
GB

Yes, the entire “reparative” aspect of it has been distorted. I heard him recently as well, and he corrected his audience on what he meant by reparative, and I believe he actually specified repair to the psyche (not narrowly “sexuality”).

Nevertheless, count on the MSM to distort for political and sensationalistic purposes. They have an Agenda. Major.

 

[speakttruth]

And this is why I believe that psychologists and psychiatrists do a disservice to people who suffer from SSA when they claim that homosexuality is not a disorder. I suffer from mild bipolar disorder. Is there a “cure” for my disorder? Sadly, no. Should I then have been told I was perfectly normal and encouraged to act on my manic and depressive urges? Of course not. What got me to where I am today is that I was taught to understand and manage my swings, combined with appropriate stabilizers to give me the space to learn it properly. In time, I weaned myself off of the stabilizers, and can now live a normal, healthy life without them because I can recognize when my disorder is driving me in a particular direction and act accordingly. When manic, I do chores or play music instead of emptying my bank account, doing drugs, and having as much sexual intercourse as possible. When depressed, I draw, paint, take photos, or go for a hike instead of sitting in a darkened room contemplating ways I could end my life. It isn’t easy, but it is possible, and it does work.

God bless you
I have heard it said that SSA is a symptom of emotional problems, not the problem. Work on the problem and it lessens the SSA and in some cases it disappears. Some say as time goes on people don’t feel those SSA as much and also living a holy life combined, heals the person. People are getting the impression someone is getting a cure overnight, and it’s not a cure, but a healing. It takes time and with todays mentality everything is suppose to done quickly and that is not the case. It’s a work in progress and obviously your living proof.

 

[epan]

Epan,

What disagreement would a Pysicist offer?

You and your red herrings. They really are your expertise, especially when cornered.

With much of physics, observation and theory interplay in the same way as other sciences. Not everything is explained mathematically. Sometimes observations are made, and theories proposed which have no mathematical correlate. Even Einstein was famous for his thought experiments.

Now tell us. What does this have to do with this thread? I was asked what a theory is, as opposed to a fact. I gave a simple example to make the point.

Do you have anything relevant to say to the point?

 

[speakttruth]

Speak,

Everyone should get Nicolosi’s books, I have, read them and understand that it is the “reparative process” that the individual is going through and the therapy is addressed to the individual that is going through that process…

Yes your quite right. You articulated it better.

.
I have actually heard him speak and have his book, and Cd’s.
He was at an Encourage Conference my first one. He seemed more defensive back then about his work and I think he has calmed down. I like Dr. Fitzgibbons. He is a very humble man.

Nicolosi didn’t work with women back then, but he did a utube explanation and it was very revealing.

 

[speakttruth]

Speak,

Everyone should get Nicolosi’s books, I have, read them and understand that it is the “reparative process” that the individual is going through and the therapy is addressed to the individual that is going through that process…

I forgot , the late Fr. Harvey of Courage wrote excellent books on pastoral care on homosexuality and Homosexuality and the Catholic church. Question and Answers. He ran Courage for 40 years and he will be a saint some day. What problems he encountered with his fellow priests. Even today many don’t have it in there parishes to help people with SSA to live chastely . Fr. Check took over at his request and is such a holy and loving priest that deals with men and women with SSA all the time. He is the one that had Nicolosi come because some people want to help rid themselves of the attraction and it is possible with proper therapy as you mentioned. Not easy, but possible.
GB

 

[Elizabeth502]

God bless you
I have heard it said that SSA is a symptom of emotional problems, not the problem. Work on the problem and it lessens the SSA and in some cases it disappears. Some say as time goes on people don’t feel those SSA as much and also living a holy life combined, heals the person. People are getting the impression someone is getting a cure overnight, and it’s not a cure, but a healing. It takes time and with todays mentality everything is suppose to done quickly and that is not the case. It’s a work in progress and obviously your living proof.

Yes! That’s the reality and the realism of it. And someone in my family is living proof as well.

 

[CopticChristian]

You and your red herrings. They really are your expertise, especially when cornered.

With much of physics, observation and theory interplay in the same way as other sciences. Not everything is explained mathematically. Sometimes observations are made, and theories proposed which have no mathematical correlate. Even Einstein was famous for his thought experiments.

Now tell us. What does this have to do with this thread? I was asked what a theory is, as opposed to a fact. I gave a simple example to make the point.

Do you have anything relevant to say to the point?

Epan,

You are funny. I was a science major, were you? Math/Physics/Chemistry…these sciences entertwine and are related…

Life Science…quite another thing…your lack of understanding of the relevance should cause you to answer your own question.

 

[epan]

Epan,

You are funny. I was a science major, were you? Math/Physics/Chemistry…these sciences entertwine and are related…

Life Science…quite another thing…your lack of understanding of the relevance should cause you to answer your own question.

Here is a peer reviewed study of your buddy Nicolosi. Have you ever heard of peer review?

scribd.com/doc/18171354/Therapeutic-Response

And… that is just the start. He is non therapeutic, non scientific, and considered a fraud by his peers. Would you care to explain, with your vast knowledge of the topic, why you promote and defend this person, whose methods have been roundly criticized and debunked, and whose research has been thoroughly discredited?

Is this the vast homosexual conspiracy which exists in your mind, which you accuse me of being a radical proponent of?

 

[CopticChristian]

Here is a peer reviewed study of your buddy Nicolosi. Have you ever heard of peer review?

scribd.com/doc/18171354/Therapeutic-Response

And… that is just the start. He is non therapeutic, non scientific, and considered a fraud by his peers. Would you care to explain, with your vast knowledge of the topic, why you promote and defend this person, whose methods have been roundly criticized and debunked, and whose research has been thoroughly discredited?

Is this the vast homosexual conspiracy which exists in your mind, which you accuse me of being a radical proponent of?

Epan,

Sarcasm will get you everywhere. Have you had a peer review?

Chair: Judith M. Glassgold, Psy.D. **She sits on the board of the Journal of Gay and Lesbian Psychotherapy and is past president of APA’s Gay and Lesbian Division **44.

Jack Drescher, M.D., **well-known as a gay-activist psychiatrist, serves on the Journal of Gay and Lesbian Psychotherapy **and is one of the most vocal opponents of reparative therapy.

A. Lee Beckstead, Ph.D., is a counseling psychologist who counsels LBBT-oriented clients from traditional religious backgrounds. He is a staff associate at the University of Utah’s Counseling Center and although he believes reorientation therapy can sometimes be helpful, he has expressed strong skepticism, and has urged the Mormon Church to revise its policy on homosexuality and instead, affirm church members who believe homosexuality reflects their true identity.

Beverly Greene, Ph.D., ABPP, was the founding co-editor of the APA Division 44 (gay and lesbian division) series, Psychological Perspectives on Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Issues.

Robin Lin Miller, Ph.D., is a community psychologist and associate professor at Michigan State University. From 1990-1995, she worked for the Gay Men’s Health Crisis in New York City and has written for gay publications.

Roger L. Worthington, Ph.D., is the interim Chief Diversity Officer at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2001 he was awarded the “2001 Catalyst Award," from the LGBT Resource Center, University of Missouri, Columbia, for “speaking up and out and often regarding LGBT issues.” He co-authored "Becoming an LGBT-Affirmative Career Advisor: Guidelines for Faculty, Staff, and Administrators” for the National Consortium of Directors of Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Resources in Higher Education.

Sounds like the hangin judge or court of no return…Kangaroo Court…not peer at all. There was no mix of unbiased peers reviewing this…you are kidding are you not.

Let’s see…Homosexual advocates reviewing therapy for homosexuals…this is unbiased and scientific peer review…Not…

The rejected applicants included–

NARTH Past-President A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D., M.P.H., M.B.A., a distinguished professor at the University of Utah School of Medicine, longtime practitioner of reorientation therapy, and co-author of several peer-reviewed journal articles studying change of sexual orientation. Dr. Byrd is considered one of the foremost experts on same-sex attraction and reorientation therapy. He has published numerous articles on sexual reorientation, as well as gender and parenting issues.

George Rekers, Ph.D., Professor of Neuropsychiatry and Behavioral Science at the University of South Carolina, editor of the Handbook of Child and Adolescent Sexual Problems, a National Institute of Mental Health grant recipient, author of the book Growing Up Straight, as well as numerous peer-reviewed articles on gender-identity issues.

Stanton Jones, Ph.D., Provost and Dean of the Graduate School and Professor of Psychology at Wheaton College, Illinois, the co-author of Homosexuality: The Use Of Scientific Research In The Church’s Moral Debate…

Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. (author of this article), a founder of NARTH, practitioner of reparative therapy for 25 years, and author of Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality and the 2009 book, Shame and Attachment Loss.

Mark A. Yarhouse, Ph.D., is Professor of Psychology, Doctoral Program in Clinical Psychology at Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Dr. Yarhouse is co-author of Homosexuality: The Use Of Scientific Research In The Church’s Moral Debate and has published many peer-reviewed articles on homosexuality.

All of these highly-qualified candidates were rejected by APA President Brehm.

I knew you would show your radical pro-homosexual agenda attitude…there it is…

 

[down_under]

If you use the terms properly, macroevolution is evolution over long periods of time, like on a geologic time frame, and microevolution over a shorter time frame. I don’t think that most biologists distinguish between the two much, as they are the same thing biologically.

I have heard of some misuse of the words, and some rather vague definitions alleging the impossibility of speciation. But, evolution beyond the species level has been observed in the laboratory and in the field.

What do you mean by “species jump”, please? I have only heard that used when referring to viruses jumping species boundaries. as in H5N1, or HIV. I suspect that you mean the evolution of a species, but I would like to be certain.

properly understood macro evolution refers to species to species change (I was a frog now I’m a rabbit) and has never been proven. It has never be observed in the laboratory and in the field. It is quite the sticking point in evolutionary biology at the moment. New theories abound about why we can’t find a single example of something that is suppose to have happened so often.

mirco evolution as stated is the inter species change the bird bills changing with the season the lobster and mollusk arms race is the perfect example as well.

No Marco evolution has never been proven or observed in any field or in any species.

 

[djeter]

DJ,

What is it you were thinking when you were moved to post this?

I am unable to make sense of what your sentiment is. The article speaks for itself. Explain please.

If the article speaks for itself, why can’t my recommendation to read it be the motivation (sentiment?) for sharing it with others?

dj

 

[CopticChristian]

If the article speaks for itself, why can’t my recommendation to read it be the motivation (sentiment?) for sharing it with others?

dj

Dj,

Answer the complete question and then I can answer you.

Explain what it is you are speaking of when you register one reader suggested that your concern detracted from what?

I am unable to make sense of what your sentiment is.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I don’t really understand this idea that reparative therapy is fixing or repairing someone’s sexuality, as you’re changing the way someone thinks, not necessarily making them right. I’m pretty sure you could manipulate someone in any way you wanted, given enough time. If therapy existed to turn people into coprophiles, I’m sure there would be a certain success rate.

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t really understand this idea that reparative therapy is fixing or repairing someone’s sexuality, as you’re changing the way someone thinks, not necessarily making them right. I’m pretty sure you could manipulate someone in any way you wanted, given enough time. If therapy existed to turn people into coprophiles, I’m sure there would be a certain success rate.

Regular,

You point out the problem that many have…therapy is therapy…if you read any of what Nicolosi writes or even what he says in video…he states that homosexuals are undergoing a reparative process…and his therapy is coordinated towards their dynamic of a reparative process…your lack of understanding and subsequent comments bear witness to your lack of understanding of “Reparative Therapy”…

this is one reason I post on these threads, because people conclude based on lack of understanding that leads to more lack of understanding…

People paint themselves into a corner of illogical thinking that creates more illogical thinking…

Why are you even posting here…

 

[speakttruth]

Regular,

You point out the problem that many have…therapy is therapy…if you read any of what Nicolosi writes or even what he says in video…he states that homosexuals are undergoing a reparative process…and his therapy is coordinated towards their dynamic of a reparative process…your lack of understanding and subsequent comments bear witness to your lack of understanding of “Reparative Therapy”…

this is one reason I post on these threads, because people conclude based on lack of understanding that leads to more lack of understanding…

People paint themselves into a corner of illogical thinking that creates more illogical thinking…

Why are you even posting here…

Coptic, these people have a homosexual agenda
They are not here to learn and discuss things they don’t understand they are here to undermine the Catholic teachings, they won’t be convince by any logical discussion. thanks for all your efforts.