Which is better: kids growing up in a foster home or kids growing up with gay parents?

[sweetpealover]

I’m sorry but all this fighting and arguing between sides will never settle this question. It won’t because there is no one answer to this delima. I have lived in group homes and foster homes (heterosexual) and the ones I had were all the pits. This problem is far too complicated and will not be settled here. The constant fighting makes me tired and wanted to stay away from the stress here. I quit.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m sorry that you feel that way, sweetpealover because I think your contribution has been valuable here. You shine a light on something in society that needs changing. It adds another dimension to the unacceptable level of incompetent parenting and makeshift homes - whether in the traditional household, in the foster home, and (in the opinion of many) the artificial family which lacks balance.

Just understand, please, that a number of people who post on CAF (I am one) do advocate for much better preparation both for marriage itself and for parenthood. Both roles require a certain level of preparation, thoughtfulness, and the kind of support that used to be standard in this country, via extended families, but is now absent or dwindling.

I am sorry that we have stressed you out.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

Not when the location has already been indicated and published. Then it is on the one who is invested in challenging the information already locatable. I am not the one challenging the information; you are.

 

[za91]

Not when the location has already been indicated and published. Then it is on the one who is invested in challenging the information already locatable. I am not the one challenging the information; you are.

I tried looking through your past posts, the problem is hundreds of your posts are on the topic of homosexuality, making it impossible to find the information.

The fact that you refuse to provide a link to this information leads me to believe that it does not exist, which doesn’t surprise me seeing as it was an outrageous claim to begin with.

 

[Adam1986]

This is one of the huge myths put out by the gay lobby. Not only is there no evidence that “gays are more reliable,” the evidence is that, on average, after 5 years of being together, gays begin seeking additional partners,

Whoa whoa whoa hold up! Please provide a link to that false statement.

That’s just completely untrue. Where did you hear that??? I’m gay myself with a boyfriend and we know MANY gay couples. And sure some do break up, as do straight couples, but a lot don’t and NO those relationships are NOT OPEN.

 

[Adam1986]

But male homosexual relationships choose not to be. That is one of the major points here.

" Same for two men and a child with a wink/wink ‘open marriage.’

1. Why do you think that EVERY SINGLE gay male relationship is open? You are VERY WRONG on that. My relationship with my BF is not open. While it is true that SOME gay relationships are open (both male and female) it certainly is not all or most or a lot of them.

You seem very misinformed on the subject of gay relationships. Where do you get your misinformation?

2)“Two women and a child is not a family. It’s a pretend family.”
What’s your definition of a family then? One mom and one dad and that’s it. Nothing else?

What about if a woman is widowed and moves in with her sister and she and her friend raise the child? Would you say that is a pretend family because the Dad is dead and it is two women raising a child.

Or what about if a man is widowed and let’s say his brother-in-law and best friend move in and take care of the kid? Yeah just like the TV Show Full House. Can they not be a family just because it’s three men and a kid.

A family doesn’t need to be one mom and one dad. A family can be more than that.

And by the way, I don’t see lots of gay couples lining up to take foster children, either. The vast majority of them seek artificial methods of “reproducing,” or they seek adoption agencies.

Did you ever think that maybe it’s because of the way people like you are so against it that if they did take in foster kids, it would be Hell for the kids? Maybe that’s why a lot “aren’t lining up”?

You shouldn’t try and make it seem like all gay couples are snobs and don’t want “broken foster kids”.

You know you keep saying all these things as facts and I just want to know; how many gay couples do you know in real life? Or for that matter, gay people in general?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Whoa whoa whoa hold up! Please provide a link to that false statement.

That’s just completely untrue. Where did you hear that??? I’m gay myself with a boyfriend and we know MANY gay couples. And sure some do break up, as do straight couples, but a lot don’t and NO those relationships are NOT OPEN.

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret

excerpt

*…
A study is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many. Some gay men and lesbians argue that, as a result, they have stronger, longer-lasting and more honest relationships. And while that may sound counterintuitive, some experts say boundary-challenging gay relationships represent an evolution in marriage — one that might point the way for the survival of the institution.

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key.“With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

The study also found open gay couples just as happy in their relationships as pairs in sexually exclusive unions, Dr. Hoff said. A different study, published in 1985, concluded that open gay relationships actually lasted longer.

None of this is news in the gay community, but few will speak publicly about it. Of the dozen people in open relationships contacted for this column, no one would agree to use his or her full name, citing privacy concerns. They also worried that discussing the subject could undermine the legal fight for same-sex marriage.

According to the research, open relationships almost always have rules.
…*

 

[larkin31]

I tried looking through your past posts, the problem is hundreds of your posts are on the topic of homosexuality, making it impossible to find the information.

The fact that you refuse to provide a link to this information leads me to believe that it does not exist, which doesn’t surprise me seeing as it was an outrageous claim to begin with.

indeed

 

[larkin31]

I’m sorry but all this fighting and arguing between sides will never settle this question. It won’t because there is no one answer to this delima. I have lived in group homes and foster homes (heterosexual) and the ones I had were all the pits. This problem is far too complicated and will not be settled here. The constant fighting makes me tired and wanted to stay away from the stress here. I quit.

indeed

very complicated

but that won’t stop people from criticizing and casting stones

 

[larkin31]

Agreed. I think many people have children for selfish reasons, like wanting a ‘mini me’ or just having a biolgical urge.

Of course this is true. The biological urge is self-centered. By definition. Even some of the emotional reasons. But we also love our children and give and give to them, unselfishly. It is a mixture.

Also - stable, loving parents are better than not having stable, loving parents. Whatever gender. Imagine never having that background, never having anyone you can rely on, or who you know loves you. Gay parents are far better than that.

Indeed. Loving parents are better, nearly universally, than non-loving. Jesus makes special request for treating children well.

 

[za91]

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret

excerpt

*…
A study is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many. Some gay men and lesbians argue that, as a result, they have stronger, longer-lasting and more honest relationships. And while that may sound counterintuitive, some experts say boundary-challenging gay relationships represent an evolution in marriage — one that might point the way for the survival of the institution.

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key.“With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

The study also found open gay couples just as happy in their relationships as pairs in sexually exclusive unions, Dr. Hoff said. A different study, published in 1985, concluded that open gay relationships actually lasted longer.

None of this is news in the gay community, but few will speak publicly about it. Of the dozen people in open relationships contacted for this column, no one would agree to use his or her full name, citing privacy concerns. They also worried that discussing the subject could undermine the legal fight for same-sex marriage.

According to the research, open relationships almost always have rules.
…*

This so called “study”, which is never sourced in the news article, is based only on a local population in San Fransisco. I don’t think that is enough to make a claim for the entire United States.

 

[Eugenius]

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

I have become more involved with this message string than I had planned. Several friends are preparing to become foster parents and I am learning a lot about the fostering program, so what we are talking about is providing a lot of food for thought. So thanks to everyone for sharing your comments.

Thank you to the person who actually produced an article. If you read it objectively, the article raises more questions than it answers and really proves nothing. I realize that we are taking this topic out of the “Which is better…” question that the original poster asked, but I want to make a few comments about this article…

Does anyone really read an article about San Francisco and believe that it represents the rest of the United States? Is it fair to make claims about people in small town and rural areas based on what you read about San Francisco and other big cities? In my opinion this is falling into the ‘bearing false witness’ category.

Where did these 556 male couples come from? Did they volunteer to be followed knowing that they were going to be asked questions about monogamy? I doubt a couple seriously intending to stay monogamous would bother with such a survey if they knew the intent was to see how long they stayed monogamous!

The study was supposedly conducted by the university, was a large percentage of the participants college students or real, long-term residents of San Francisco itself? The age and other life conditions could play a big factor in the responses (for example, students leave college and break up to pursue careers, older couples stay together because they share property).

Maybe the 556 male couples that volunteered for this survey already knew that they were inclined to be promiscuous and the fact that 50% of them ended up being monogamous anyway should really be the story!!! Interestingly this 50% rate is roughly the same as heterosexual divorce, yet the 50% homosexual couples choose to stay together in spite of infidelity, whereas a heterosexual couple would likely throw their marriage away and run for divorce.

 

[larkin31]

This so called “study”, which is never sourced in the news article, is based only on a local population in San Fransisco. I don’t think that is enough to make a claim for the entire United States.

yeah, and “for many” is not likely the language of any “study”.

When about 75% of the hetero population now admit to having cheated at one time or another, it is tough to claim which “many” is more “many,” ya know?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

This so called “study”, which is never sourced in the news article, is based only on a local population in San Fransisco. I don’t think that is enough to make a claim for the entire United States.

If you bothered to call up Gay Couples Study, which was mentioned in the article, it would have led you to the information you want. In fact, it provides links to related studies such as:

News and Updates

Many Gay Couples Negotiate Open Relationships (San Francisco Chronicle, July 16, 2010)

Gay Couples Vulnerable to HIV When Monogamy is Unsure (HealthDay News, July 15, 2010)

Gay Couples Need HIV Prevention, Says Study (Bay Area Reporter, July 15, 2010)

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (New York Times, January 28, 2010)

Researcher Seeks Gay Male Couples (Bay Area Reporter, 2006

As for the claim that the study is for the whole U.S., Elizabeth or anybody did not say this. However, if demographics is to be appreciated, you can consider relevant statistics as this article reports:

America’s Top 20 Gayest Cities

Note that San Francisco has the highest gay percentage of city population in the country at 15.4%.

From the obvious (San Francisco) to the surprising (Columbus), Richard Florida and Gary Gates crunched the numbers to rank the top gay cities in the country.

The U.S. metropolitan region with the largest concentration of gay and lesbian people is San Francisco. That’s not exactly news …

You can also look at wiki. U.S. Demographics of Sexual Orientation or Gay Village.

I provided the initial article about a study on open gay marriages / unions (which is not hard at all to look up even by one who half way knows how to use any search engine) only because another poster challenged Elizabeth that what she asserted was a false statement. Well, Elizabeth does not post something without basis. Perhaps that poster or anybody else should check her record of posts first.
,

 

[larkin31]

Gays are so bad. Their promiscuity just dominates Biblical passages about sexual dalliances… Oh wait. Oops. I got that wrong. It’s the straights that can’t seem to stick to their own partners in the Bible most often! I am ashamed of my own kind!

 

[Elizabeth502]

I tried looking through your past posts, the problem is hundreds of your posts are on the topic of homosexuality, making it impossible to find the information.

That could be that I am very interested in presenting the Catholic view on this, not the secular view proposed by those who identify as Catholic but are (in some cases) or may (in other cases) be presenting an unCatholic teaching

The fact that you refuse to provide a link to this information leads me to believe that it does not exist, which doesn’t surprise me seeing as it was an outrageous claim to begin with.

That seems to be an excuse for laziness. Others have found the link.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

For those who are interested in studies, here is an abstract on an actual study, which does not mean, of course, that all homosexual practitioners are molesters of children, or this is for the whole United States. It clearly states it is a study by Illinois Child Services, obtained by the Family Reseach Institute thru IllinoisLeader.com using the Freedom of Information Act. I hope this is a sufficient disclaimer so posters who are on one side of the debate do not go rabid with unfair accusations.

Anybody who would want to question or pursue a study of the study can go straight to the site and analyze the bibliography and notes by Illinois Child Services.

Homosexual Child Molestations by Foster Parents: Illinois 1997 - 2002

Do those who engage in homosexuality disproportionately sexually abuse foster or adoptive children as reported by child protective services? Illinois child services reported sexual abuse for 1997 through 2002. 270 parents committed “substantiated” sexual offenses against foster or subsidized adoptive children: 67 (69%) of 97 mother and 148 (86%) of 173 father perpetrators sexually abused girls; 30 (31%) mother and 25 (14%) of father perpetrators sexually abused boys (i.e., 92 [34%] of the perpetrators homosexually abused their charges). 15 of these parents both physically and sexually abused charges: daughters by 8 mothers and 4 fathers, sons by 3 mothers (i.e., same-sex perpetrators were involved in 53%). Thus, homosexual practitioners were proportionately more apt to sexually abuse foster or adoptive children.

…

 

[za91]

If you bothered to call up Gay Couples Study, which was mentioned in the article, it would have led you to the information you want. In fact, it provides links to related studies such as:

News and Updates

Many Gay Couples Negotiate Open Relationships (San Francisco Chronicle, July 16, 2010)

Gay Couples Vulnerable to HIV When Monogamy is Unsure (HealthDay News, July 15, 2010)

Gay Couples Need HIV Prevention, Says Study (Bay Area Reporter, July 15, 2010)

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (New York Times, January 28, 2010)

Researcher Seeks Gay Male Couples (Bay Area Reporter, 2006

As for the claim that the study is for the whole U.S., Elizabeth or anybody did not say this. However, if demographics is to be appreciated, you can consider relevant statistics as this article reports:

America’s Top 20 Gayest Cities

Note that San Francisco has the highest gay percentage of city population in the country at 15.4%.

From the obvious (San Francisco) to the surprising (Columbus), Richard Florida and Gary Gates crunched the numbers to rank the top gay cities in the country.

The U.S. metropolitan region with the largest concentration of gay and lesbian people is San Francisco. That’s not exactly news …

You can also look at wiki. U.S. Demographics of Sexual Orientation or Gay Village.

I provided the initial article about a study on open gay marriages / unions (which is not hard at all to look up even by one who half way knows how to use any search engine) only because another poster challenged Elizabeth that what she asserted was a false statement. Well, Elizabeth does not post something without basis. Perhaps that poster or anybody else should check her record of posts first.
,

Again, all those news articles were pertaining ONLY to the San Fransisco/Bay Area.

San Fransisco having such a high gay population is EXACTLY why it shouldn’t be used.

Do you have an article/study from any other area of the country besides San Fransisco that show’s gay are any less monogamous than straight couples. In fact, the New York Times article you linked to says that straight couples having “open relationships” is increasing. Does that also mean that straight couples are unfit to be parents?

 

[Elizabeth502]

You know you keep saying all these things as facts and I just want to know; how many gay couples do you know in real life? Or for that matter, gay people in general?

I live in probably the most saturated gay population in the country. And I have always lived in diverse regions. Lots of friends, acquaintances, even associates identify variously as “gay” or “bi-.” An extended family member is gay. An extremely close relative (his former partner), lived as “gay” for awhile, until it became obvious to the partner that the relative was in fact not homosexual in orientation at all, but was unable to relate to women because of his immaturity, and thus was more comfortable in a single-gender relationship.

I’m actually quite well-read on the topic and additionally know from a very passionate and personal point of view that children do not do well, ultimately, in single-gender households. You’re new to this forum. I’m not going to find all my posts over the last 2+ years on this issue. Many of them are quite explicit, based on experience and reading (together) why single-gender households limit children at the least, harm them at worst. Men cannot be mothers, no matter how they contort the language to pretend so; women cannot be fathers, nor are sons fooled into believing that. Sons need fathers and mothers; daughters need mothers and fathers.

I addressed in posts long ago on CAF my feelings about straight single-gender households, which are less than ideal but far more suitable for children than homosexual single-gender households are. I’m not going to do research for anyone who is too lazy to do it themselves.

The fact that I don’t happen to agree with you does not make me ignorant or uninformed. It makes me in disagreement with you about what a healthy household actually means.

 

[Adam1986]

I live in probably the most saturated gay population in the country. And I have always lived in diverse regions. Lots of friends, acquaintances, even associates identify variously as “gay” or “bi-.” An extended family member is gay. An extremely close relative (his former partner), lived as “gay” for awhile, until it became obvious to the partner that the relative was in fact not homosexual in orientation at all, but was unable to relate to women because of his immaturity, and thus was more comfortable in a single-gender relationship.

I’m actually quite well-read on the topic and additionally know from a very passionate and personal point of view that children do not do well, ultimately, in single-gender households. You’re new to this forum. I’m not going to find all my posts over the last 2+ years on this issue. Many of them are quite explicit, based on experience and reading (together) why single-gender households limit children at the least, harm them at worst. Men cannot be mothers, no matter how they contort the language to pretend so; women cannot be fathers, nor are sons fooled into believing that. Sons need fathers and mothers; daughters need mothers and fathers.

I addressed in posts long ago on CAF my feelings about straight single-gender households, which are less than ideal but far more suitable for children than homosexual single-gender households are. I’m not going to do research for anyone who is too lazy to do it themselves.

The fact that I don’t happen to agree with you does not make me ignorant or uninformed. It makes me in disagreement with you about what a healthy household actually means.

I never said you were ignorant or misinformed. I was just curious how much real-life experience you had with gay people because you never seem to post a source to your claims.

My question to you is though, how do you feel about a non homosexual same gendered household?

For instance, I’ll give the example of “Full House” again, would you feel that a widowed father and his brother-in-law and his best friend, parenting children CAN’T be a family JUST because there’s no exact mother figure involved? Can’t they still be a family even if it’s not “perfect”?