Which is more effective: Prayer or Action?

[GreggAlvarez]

Gregg, I once downloaded a rosary application just to see how to pray the rosary, even that I don’t believe it doesn’t mean that I’m not interested in religions and different beliefs or culture.

Gotcha.

Sorry, if my posts ever made it seem like I thought you were close-minded or something. I certainly don’t think that at all.

There is a reason why I respected your posts in the first place.

Thanks for explaining the whole issue, do you have to go to church to pray?

You are welcome. It was really tough! That and I have been typing from a Blackberry cell phone.

To answer your question, nope.

Thank you for asking a question where I can answer with one word.

 

[Flyingg]

Every time you ask a question about God, if you are sincere in wanting the answer, you are praying.

Cro-magnon man asking the lightning to spare his bone and skin tent, was praying.

One God. One mysterious but oh-so real God. By any name at any time. God has a desire for you: to live in perfect joy forever.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation partner.

I ask about most religions, about scientific facts, philosophical theories, history, technology, old mythologies and religions, the reason behind my questions pure curiosity to know about different things

I want to know about the concept of God, not God. Because I don’t believe in the last one, so I don’t think I desire God as much as I desire people’s thoughts or beliefs.

To answer your question, nope.

Thank you for asking a question where I can answer with one word.

You’re welcome…

 

[tonyrey]

I want to know about the concept of God, not God. Because I don’t believe in the last one, so I don’t think I desire God as much as I desire people’s thoughts or beliefs.

1. Desiring people’s thoughts or beliefs is a desire to know the truth.
2. Desiring to know about the concept of God is also a desire to know the truth - about the nature and existence of God.
3. Desiring to know the truth is evidence of belief that the truth exists.
4. Believing that the truth exists and desiring to know the truth take you beyond the material world…

 

[Julia_Mae]

I ask about most religions, about scientific facts, philosophical theories, history, technology, old mythologies and religions, the reason behind my questions pure curiosity to know about different things

Me too.

I want to know about the concept of God, not God. Because I don’t believe in the last one

Can you explain exactly what it is you don’t believe in? I’m not sure how you are defining “God” here.

 

[Flyingg]

1. Desiring people’s thoughts or beliefs is a desire to know the truth.
2. Desiring to know about the concept of God is also a desire to know the truth - about the nature and existence of God.
3. Desiring to know the truth is evidence of belief that the truth exists.
4. Believing that the truth exists and desiring to know the truth take you beyond the material world…

Not sure you are right, I desire the truth but I don’t think the truth is necessary God, specially your thought on what god is.

 

[tonyrey]

*1. Desiring people’s thoughts or beliefs is a desire to know the truth.

Do you think the truth is a material object? If not what is it?

 

[tonyrey]

Not sure you are right, I desire the truth but I don’t think the truth is necessary God, specially your thought on what god is.

I’m just wondering why you desire the truth… There’s no doubt we’re on the right track.

 

[Flyingg]

Me too.

Can you explain exactly what it is you don’t believe in? I’m not sure how you are defining “God” here.

I’m sorry I didn’t reply to this in my last post, I don’t believe in personal creators (put all gods names here), and I don’t believe in religions because I see that no religion can have monopoly on truth, I see religions as old mythologies made up by humans ( of course, put a lot of reasons here).

I’m just wondering why you desire the truth… There’s no doubt we’re on the right track.

I have curiosity for knowledge, that’s why anyone would desire the truth, are you still looking for the truth? Or you think you founf it?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m sorry I didn’t reply to this in my last post, I don’t believe in personal creators (put all gods names here), and I don’t believe in religions because I see that no religion can have monopoly on truth, I see religions as old mythologies made up by humans ( of course, put a lot of reasons here).

So, if you don’t believe in personal creators, does that mean you rule out afterlife?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

and I don’t believe in religions because I see that no religion can have monopoly on truth,

People (especially atheists) misunderstand the Catholic Church. While the Church does believe that everything it teaches is the Truth, she does NOT claim to have a “monopoly on truth”. She has never claimed that. In fact, she recognizes that other religions (Protestantism, Hinduism, even Atheism, etc…) have some sort of truth in them no matter how flawed it is. (That’s WAY more than what most religions can claim.) Not everybody may have faith in God, but we believe that every person on this planet has the reasoning capabilities to figure stuff out. That reason is God-given (or so we believe).

She recognizes that people do seek God in their own ways, even atheists. We do believe that God is the Truth.

Anyway, my point is that we do not have a monopoly on the Truth. Others may have some Truth, even if it is distorted.

The Church claiming that she has proclaimed all doctrines infallibly does not equate to claiming a monopoly on the Truth. Its just that everything she teaches is true. She is “the pillar and foundation” of God’s Truth.

The Catholic Church teaches that she and only she is capable of infallibly proclaiming any and all doctrines on faith and morals.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that she and only she is capable of proclaiming any sort of Truth.

My dictionary says this on “monopoly”:

The exclusive possession or control of blah blah blah…

So, the Catholic Church has no exclusive possession or control of the Truth.

This might be misunderstood by many readers, but I hope not.

I see religions as old mythologies made up by humans ( of course, put a lot of reasons here).

Me too.

 

[tonyrey]

I’m just wondering why you desire the truth… There’s no doubt we’re on the right track.

.Why do you think we are curious? Animals don’t seem to share our curiosity!

… are you still looking for the truth? Or you think you found it?

I believe fundamental truths have been revealed by God and confirmed by my own experience - and the experience of others. Many truths have been discovered by humanity but there are always more to discover…

 

[tonyrey]

I don’t believe in religions because I see that no religion can have monopoly on truth, I see religions as old mythologies made up by humans ( of course, put a lot of reasons here).

It doesn’t follow from the fact that no religion can have monopoly on truth that religions are mythologies with no element of truth…

 

[steph_86]

Choices are “Prayer” or “Action” and the choice you choose won’t be made public.

And please don’t say “Both” .

Prayer is the key that opens the Heart of God. Action is only effective if it is carried out with charity and faith. In order to be effective, the active should be a reflection of the contemplative.

 

[Flyingg]

So, if you don’t believe in personal creators, does that mean you rule out afterlife?

You mean by ruling out, putting out? I don’t believe in after life, as much as you believe that all existent beings will cease to exist once they die excluding humans, I think humans are aslo included, no life after death.

People (especially atheists) misunderstand the Catholic Church. While the Church does believe that everything it teaches is the Truth, she does NOT claim to have a “monopoly on truth”. She has never claimed that. In fact, she recognizes that other religions (Protestantism, Hinduism, even Atheism, etc…) have some sort of truth in them no matter how flawed it is. (That’s WAY more than what most religions can claim.) Not everybody may have faith in God, but we believe that every person on this planet has the reasoning capabilities to figure stuff out. That reason is God-given (or so we believe).

She recognizes that people do seek God in their own ways, even atheists. We do believe that God is the Truth.

Anyway, my point is that we do not have a monopoly on the Truth. Others may have some Truth, even if it is distorted.

The Church claiming that she has proclaimed all doctrines infallibly does not equate to claiming a monopoly on the Truth. Its just that everything she teaches is true. She is “the pillar and foundation” of God’s Truth.

The Catholic Church teaches that she and only she is capable of infallibly proclaiming any and all doctrines on faith and morals.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that she and only she is capable of proclaiming any sort of Truth.

My dictionary says this on “monopoly”:

The exclusive possession or control of blah blah blah…

So, the Catholic Church has no exclusive possession or control of the Truth.

This might be misunderstood by many readers, but I hope not.

Me too.

I don’t think the reason why most atheists are atheists is because they misunderstand the Catholic Church, there is many other reasons, and the Catholic Church might not be even included in those reasons. I know that you consider every religion to have some truth this is not what I was talking about. I don’t see, how you were an atheist? if the reasons you had to disbelieve in gods and religions were weak, probably you would return back as a religious person.

.Why do you think we are curious? Animals don’t seem to share our curiosity!

I believe fundamental truths have been revealed by God and confirmed by my own experience - and the experience of others. Many truths have been discovered by humanity but there are always more to discover…

Animals can be curious as much as they have of perception. So your experiences make you believe in Catholicism, what about experiences form other religious groups that their beliefs are the true faith? We are out of main topic, is this allowed?

 

[Julia_Mae]

You mean by ruling out, putting out? I don’t believe in after life, as much as you believe that all existent beings will cease to exist once they die excluding humans,…

I don’t believe that.

So, why do you believe you will cease to exist?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I don’t think the reason why most atheists are atheists is because they misunderstand the Catholic Church, there is many other reasons, and the Catholic Church might not be even included in those reasons. I know that you consider every religion to have some truth this is not what I was talking about.

Oh, I agree.

I didn’t mean that that’s why atheists are atheists. I know there are a multitude of reasons. My point was to refute any idea that the Catholic Church has a monopoly on the Truth.

I don’t see, how you were an atheist? if the reasons you had to disbelieve in gods and religions were weak, probably you would return back as a religious person.

1. Why can you not see that I was an atheist? It says so on my religion that I was, right?
2. Do you think my reasons to disbelieve were weak? If so, why? If not, why not?
3. Can a person with strong arguments for disbelief become religious? Why is that?

 

[Flyingg]

1. Why can you not see that I was an atheist? It says so on my religion that I was, right?
2. Do you think my reasons to disbelieve were weak? If so, why? If not, why not?
3. Can a person with strong arguments for disbelief become religious? Why is that?

This looks like an exam, so ill go without the numbers:

I’ve talked with many religious people who claim that they were atheists, it turned out that of them were angry at God, they hated God or they were just careless, or secular which is not the definition of an atheist,I don’t know if you are like this or not. Another reason, I don’t think an actual atheist would come back again as religious and believing in personal gods, unless his reasons for being an atheist were weak, it’s like a kid believing again in Santa after he figured out that Santa is not real.

 

[jmcrae]

This looks like an exam, so ill go without the numbers:

I’ve talked with many religious people who claim that they were atheists, it turned out that of them were angry at God, they hated God or they were just careless, or secular which is not the definition of an atheist,I don’t know if you are like this or not. Another reason, I don’t think an actual atheist would come back again as religious and believing in personal gods, unless his reasons for being an atheist were weak, it’s like a kid believing again in Santa after he figured out that Santa is not real.

A person can believe in generosity at Christmas, while at the same time understanding that his belief in Santa Claus as a child was simply a childish way of understanding generosity at Christmas time.

We all begin with a childish perception of God (big strong man in the sky, or invisible friend, etc.), and when they reach the age of discernment to realize that their perception of God is not something that can exist, then either they figure out what God really is, or else they decide that God is not real at all. But no one stays at a childish level; we all have to grow up.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

This looks like an exam, so ill go without the numbers:

Sorry about that. Upon second reading, it did like it. “If so, why?” Whoops…

I’ve talked with many religious people who claim that they were atheists, it turned out that of them were angry at God, they hated God or they were just careless, or secular which is not the definition of an atheist,I don’t know if you are like this or not.

I have met atheists like that also.

To be sure though, the religious can do secular activities. Secular just means something that is not of religion. Like sports, or some music, games, etc… We also make sacred (prayer) and secular (putting up lights) preparations for religious Christmas.

Another reason, I don’t think an actual atheist would come back again as religious and believing in personal gods, unless his reasons for being an atheist were weak, it’s like a kid believing again in Santa after he figured out that Santa is not real.

Hmmm… But Santa isn’t real and no person capable of mature reasoning believes in Santa.

You are saying that if an atheist’s reason(s) are strong, then you don’t think they will become theists.

Why do you think that? What about the contrary? Do you think an actual Catholic could become an Atheist? (That is, unless his reasons for being Catholic were weak.)

Haha… Sorry about all the questions. I am just interested. I have never heard anybody saying anything like that. I have a lot more questions but I don’t want to annoy anybody any more than I already have.

 

[Flyingg]

A person can believe in generosity at Christmas, while at the same time understanding that his belief in Santa Claus as a child was simply a childish way of understanding generosity at Christmas time.

We all begin with a childish perception of God (big strong man in the sky, or invisible friend, etc.), and when they reach the age of discernment to realize that their perception of God is not something that can exist, then either they figure out what God really is, or else they decide that God is not real at all. But no one stays at a childish level; we all have to grow up.

Sorry about that. Upon second reading, it did like it. “If so, why?” Whoops…

I have met atheists like that also.

To be sure though, the religious can do secular activities. Secular just means something that is not of religion. Like sports, or some music, games, etc… We also make sacred (prayer) and secular (putting up lights) preparations for religious Christmas.

Hmmm… But Santa isn’t real and no person capable of mature reasoning believes in Santa.

You are saying that if an atheist’s reason(s) are strong, then you don’t think they will become theists.

Why do you think that? What about the contrary? Do you think an actual Catholic could become an Atheist? (That is, unless his reasons for being Catholic were weak.)

Haha… Sorry about all the questions. I am just interested. I have never heard anybody saying anything like that. I have a lot more questions but I don’t want to annoy anybody any more than I already have.

I’m not talking about Santa as a fictional character as much as myhtologies we invented during our existance as humans, you two exculde Catholicism for mythology while I include it in that categorie, when you know why you exclude other religions you’ll know why I exclude yours.

Its not that an atheist can’t return as religious again. But the more I talk with people who say that they were atheists, the more I notice that they don’t know the meaning of the word.
There is actual Catholics, muslims, jews etc who turned into atheists. I’m not annoyed by your question, in contrary, but I think the topic is banned here and out of the main topic. So I would send you a message to answer more freely about what you have as questions.