Which is more serious - killing the unborn or born?

[wynnejj]

Which is more serious? Killing the unborn or born?

What if it was legalized that parents could bring their teenagers to a clinic to have them “put down” on demand, no questions asked?

There could be arguments for the practice. “Quality of Life over Quantity of Life”. Population control. Over-crowded prisons due to juvenile delinquency leading to hardened adult criminals. Incentive to keep the kids good and take their education seriously. Children of “bad” parents would not introduce their dysfunctional kids into the next stage of adult society that makes laws that govern our society.

What if our local Christian churches, due to governmental controls affecting church finances and charitable institutions, and for non-violent dialog reasons, and for reasons of not turning away souls who may have engaged in the practice, had refused to decry the practice vigorously and did not even include a weekly prayer petition for our country to end the practice?

Is this scenario more serious than the status quo of abortion in the USA?

 

[bilop]

Which is more serious? Killing the unborn or born?

What if it was legalized that parents could bring their teenagers to a clinic to have them “put down” on demand, no questions asked?

There could be arguments for the practice. “Quality of Life over Quantity of Life”. Population control. Over-crowded prisons due to juvenile delinquency leading to hardened adult criminals. Incentive to keep the kids good and take their education seriously. Children of “bad” parents would not introduce their dysfunctional kids into the next stage of adult society that makes laws that govern our society.

What if our local Christian churches, due to governmental controls affecting church finances and charitable institutions, and for non-violent dialog reasons, and for reasons of not turning away souls who may have engaged in the practice, had refused to decry the practice vigorously and did not even include a weekly prayer petition for our country to end the practice?

Is this scenario more serious than the status quo of abortion in the USA?

You are correct. There is absolutely no moral difference between abortion and murdering a 2 year old, or a 12 year old, or a 32 year old.

God Bless

 

[Joe_5859]

You are correct. There is absolutely no moral difference between abortion and murdering a 2 year old, or a 12 year old, or a 32 year old.

God Bless

Yup. I don’t know what else to say but “there is no difference”. I guess we’ll have to wait for someone to come along and disagree with that.

 

[WindyHair]

Yup. I don’t know what else to say but “there is no difference”. I guess we’ll have to wait for someone to come along and disagree with that.

first you will have start with killing.

is it right or is it wrong?

 

[bilop]

first you will have start with killing.

is it right or is it wrong?

Notice in my post I said murder, not killing.

Sometimes killing of an adult or teenager, or maybe even a child, could be justified (self-defense).

Abortion, on the other hand, is always murder.

God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

Reminds me of a really bad TV show I saw one time.

The mother goes to the doctor to request an abortion; he asks her, “For what reason do you want the abortion?”

“Mental health. He is driving me crazy.”

“Which trimester are you in?”

“Well, he is a little more than seven years old, so that puts it at - uh - the 29th trimester?”

“I’m sorry, ma’am, I sympathize with your dilemma, but I am unable to perform the abortion for you, due to legal restrictions on performing abortions past the third trimester. I recommend that you lobby your congressman to liberalize the abortion law.”

 

[wynnejj]

“I’m sorry, ma’am, I sympathize with your dilemma, but I am unable to perform the abortion for you, due to legal restrictions on performing abortions past the third trimester. I recommend that you lobby your congressman to liberalize the abortion law.”

:whacky: The way our country is going, that little restriction may be relaxed in the not too far future.

 

[Joe_5859]

first you will have start with killing.

is it right or is it wrong?

Ah, WindyHair! Did you follow me over here?

Let me see if I can predict how this plays out. First, would you like to make a distinction between “murder” and “killing”?

Killing is not always wrong. As bilop pointed out, killing in self-defense can be justified. War can also be justified. Capital punishment can (in some cases) be justified.

Murder, on the other hand, is always wrong. Murder is the intentional killing of an innocent person.

So then your next question would be: Is abortion always murder or can it be justified killing?

Well, let’s take a look at who the victim is in abortion. For abortion to be murder, the victim would have to be (1) a person, (2) innocent, and (3) intentionally killed.

Is the fetus a person? Biologically, the fetus possesses distinct human DNA. All it needs is time and nourishment (which is the same thing that infants need, and the same thing that toddler’s need, and the same thing that teenagers need, etc.). Given this time and nourishment, it cannot become anything other than a human adult. So, yes, the fetus is a person.

Is this unborn child innocent? Or the reverse, is the child guilty to the point that merits death? Considering the child has not intentionally done anything to bring harm to others, we can safely say that the child is innocent. Now, some might say “the child is not innocent because he or she is bringing harm to his or her mother” either through economic or mental stress. If this is true, then the same would hold true for children after they are born. and parents should also be allowed to kill their children after they’re born for the same reason. Regardless, the child has done nothing deserving of death.

Of course, I can predict that you might want to bring up the situation where the unborn child poses a threat to the life of the mother. That is really a separate issue. Since the vast majority of abortions are not done for this reason, this really amounts to a red herring. Generally speaking, though, the child has not intentionally done anything to harm the mother. And when action is taken, the intent is not to kill the child but to save the mother.

The third question: does abortion intentionally kill the fetus? One needs only to look at the various methods of abortion to see that this question can also be answered in the affirmative.

Since the answer to all three questions is “Yes,” then we can see that abortion is murder and is thus always wrong.

Since you fancy yourself a philosopher, WindyHair, you might want to check this out as well: Dr. Peter’ Kreeft’s Apple Argument Against Abortion. Kreeft is a philosophy professor and he makes the argument that, if we know what an apple is, then that means abortion is wrong. Of course, you have to read the article to find all the steps that come in between.

 

[Olivia729]

what if the parents are to young i think they should give it up but they should not have sex:shrug:

 

[Olivia729]

what if the parents are to young i think they should give it up but they should not have sex:shrug:

 

[bilop]

Of course, I can predict that you might want to bring up the situation where the unborn child poses a threat to the life of the mother. That is really a separate issue. Since the vast majority of abortions are not done for this reason, this really amounts to a red herring. Generally speaking, though, the child has not intentionally done anything to harm the mother. And when action is taken, the intent is not to kill the child but to save the mother.

You are quite right that this is a red herring.

There is no medical condition for which abortion is indicated.

If the growing baby indeed posed a threat to the mother, the correct medical response would be to wait as long as prudently possible, and then induce labor, or do a c-section. You would then use every medical means to save the baby.

God Bless

 

[WindyHair]

joe589, nope, but my next question to you is this:

is killing a baby the same as killing a man (adult)?
does baby = adult?

 

[WindyHair]

do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?

girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.

 

[jmcrae]

joe589, nope, but my next question to you is this:

is killing a baby the same as killing a man (adult)?
does baby = adult?

The intrinsic worth and dignity of every human being has no relevance to age or ability.

 

[bilop]

joe589, nope, but my next question to you is this:

is killing a baby the same as killing a man (adult)?
does baby = adult?

Unless the man is threatening you with grievous bodily harm, yes.

There’s an old joke from the American West.

“Why is it that the penalty for stealing a horse is always hanging, but the penalty for killing a man is not always hanging”

“Because there are some men that need killing, but there are no horses that need stealing.”

There are no babies, born or unborn, who need killing.

God Bless

 

[nicolep]

do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?

girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.

Two wrongs never make a right. You didn’t direct the question to me, but yes a baby is equal to an adult regardless of what society has been feeding us all of these years.

 

[bilop]

do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?

girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.

They shouldn’t do that. But the fact that some babies will be killed anyway does not mean we should allow more babies to be killed.

Likewise the fact that some mothers may die from illicit abortions is no reason to allow abortion. A person dies in every succesful abortion.

God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?

They had Communism (which allows abortion) from 1917 until 1989. Prior to that, abortion (and every other kind of birth control) was prohibited all over the world.

girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.

And?

Today, rapes often take place in dirty alley ways; should we legalize rape so that the girls can have something soft to lie on while they are being raped?

Murders often take place in uncomfortable circumstances, too, because of the fact that they are illegal - should we legalize murder so that it can become cleaner and more painless?

 

[Joe_5859]

do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?

girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.

Leaving aside the fact that you have provided no evidence that this is factually correct, we’ll assume that it is.

If the illegalization of heroin is forcing drug users to shoot up in unsanitary conditions, does that mean it should therefore be legalized? That way they can shoot up with clean needles in a safe, sterilized environment.

Bank robbers, too, are falling on hard times. They have to worry about police shooting at them or they might have to drive dangerously fast to get away, thereby endangering their lives and the lives of others. Shouldn’t we legalize bank robbery so that these people can safely rob a bank and not have to work in these dangerous conditions?

 

[PapaSquash]

I will argue that it more serious to kill the unborn. The born have at least some theoretical chance to fight back or run away. The unborn are defenseless.