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J
japhy
Guest
The natural course for a fetus is not always birth; sometimes a fetus dies from natural causes before it is birthed. But abortion isn’t natural.ok folks, technically, a fetus doesn’t “choose” anything. it’s a natural course for a fetus to be born, but the fetus is not in there saying, “birth me, birth me,” nor is it saying, “abort me, abort me”.
You didn’t have a say in your conception either.did i ask my mom and dad, “hey can you guys like, give birth to me??” before i was born? No.
And you’re just the person to decide for them!some kids wish they hadn’t been born. and honestly, sometimes i wonder if it would’ve been better if some children were never born, because of the environment they are born in to, whether it be war, famine, etc.
W
WindyHair
Guest
i’m not deciding for anyone.The natural course for a fetus is not always birth; sometimes a fetus dies from natural causes before it is birthed. But abortion isn’t natural.
You didn’t have a say in your conception either.
And you’re just the person to decide for them!
it’s for their parents to decide.
when you take away a parents choice to decide to abort,
you, at the same time, take away their choice to give birth also.
how so? because it’s no longer a matter of choice but law.
your parents no longer chose to have you, it’s because they had to.
W
wynnejj
Guest
:clapping: This statement is a statement I can agree upon.if you folks really want to stop abortion, making it illegal is an EMOTIONAL SHORT SIGHTED
approach.
William Penn in his apologies for the fact that his Frame of Government was lacking in many laws said that a full set of laws is no guarantee for law & order. Good people will act morally despite a lacking of laws, and bad people will act immorally no matter how complete the laws.
The LONG SIGHTED approach is grass roots, in the churches, whose truth shines because of the stable, happy families it produces and is an example of how to do it right.
But you do need laws to keep things from getting totally out of hand. A person can hardly marry another without questioning whether their new-found partner isn’t dysfunctional due to popular culture influences and the damage it has done to the stability of marriages.
J
japhy
Guest
Says who?it’s for their parents to decide.
Giving birth is the natural process. You don’t choose nature, you choose against nature.when you take away a parents choice to decide to abort, you, at the same time, take away their choice to give birth also.
W
wynnejj
Guest
This reminds me of a radio program where an elderly lady was describing how she had to go to Cuba to get an abortion (when younger). It was an appeal to Pro-Choice. In her dialogue she made an interesting statement that went something like this:Giving birth is the natural process. You don’t choose nature, you choose against nature.
“Every fiber of my body was against my having this abortion procedure. Why did society make it so hard for me to solve my dilemma?”
M
mercygate
Guest
"mercygate:
Abortion involves an act of violence to terminate an innocent life that, unmolested, would most likely proceed to lilve a full life.
The abortion involves an act of violence to terminate a life that, unmolested, would proceed to live a full life.
OK. Let me qualify that.potentially, one can’t say for sure.
Abortion involves an act of violence to terminate an innocent life that, unmolested, would most likely proceed to lilve a full life.
J
japhy
Guest
Let me expound upon that a bit, because from one perspective, when given a choice between nature and anti-nature, it seems like we can choose nature.Giving birth is the natural process. You don’t choose nature, you choose against nature.
What I mean is, in the ordinary flow of life, nature happens. I don’t choose to breathe, I just do it. It’s natural; it comes naturally. I choose to hold my breath, and I know that if I do that long enough, there will be a negative consequence, because I am fighting what is natural for my human body. “Choosing” to align our actions with what is natural is not so much a choice as it is submitting ourselves to our design and, consequently, our Designer and Creator. Choosing to take actions that are opposed to our nature puts us at odds with our design and, consequently, our Designer and Creator.
God’s law tells us that sexual intimacy is natural only within the union of one man to one woman, in marriage, holy matrimony. God’s law also tells us that fertilization/conception of a human is natural only within the conjugal act of that sexual union. God’s law also tells us that murder is not natural. And God’s law has guided the Church (and Israel before it) to believe that life is sacred from the moment of conception and that abortion – which is the willful murder of a yet-unborn human life – is wrong.
When we “choose” to let a pregnancy occur by not impeding the sexual act, we aren’t choosing so much as we are relinquishing control to our Creator and letting what is natural occur, if it is to occur. When we “choose” to let that pregnancy go to term by not aborting, we aren’t choosing so much as we are acknowledging before God the sanctity of that life which He has created. It is natural for humans. It is not in the nature of humans to destroy their offspring, before or after birth.
Life is the default “choice”. Therefore, choose life, that you may live.
M
mercygate
Guest
People engage in an activity that is intrinsically oriented towards one thing: creating a baby. Then, as if this were some kind of accident or intrusion, they seek to “fix” the problem by killing the result of their act.i’m not deciding for anyone.
it’s for their parents to decide.
when you take away a parents choice to decide to abort,
you, at the same time, take away their choice to give birth also.
how so? because it’s no longer a matter of choice but law.
your parents no longer chose to have you, it’s because they had to.
People have abortions because, in their minds and imaginations, they have dissociated the procreative ACT from the procreative EFFECT.
People are big on self determination and personal autonomy except if it involves self-determining not to have sexual intercourse if you can’t support the outcome.
J
japhy
Guest
Potentially a full life, whatever that means. But the fetus – by which you mean the unborn human – is already living and growing. It has been since the sperm fertilized the egg. There is no longer potential for life, there is life; there is potential for life to the full, an “abundant life”, you might say.potentially, one can’t say for sure.
P
ProVobis
Guest
It already has. We kill a lot of elders. Or hope they die.:whacky: The way our country is going, that little restriction may be relaxed in the not too far future.
P
ProVobis
Guest
The states would viably determine the penalties and limitations if all Roe vs Wade issues were relegated to them.If you murder your own baby by means of an abortion, yes, you should go to jail. So should the doctor who helped you, and the person who drove you to the clinic, for “aiding and abetting in the murder of a child in the womb.”
P
ProVobis
Guest
Very true. However, fornication and adultery are still illegal, yet society more than tolerates their behavior. Don’t we need to enforce our laws first?The idea is not to “manage” abortion. It is to stop it, as much as possible.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Depends on what you mean by a “full” life. I’ve read a lot of abortions are performed on deformed feti or even when parents have incompatible Rh factors.Abortion involves an act of violence to terminate an innocent life that, unmolested, would most likely proceed to lilve a full life.
K
KestrelRose
Guest
That is like saying, murders take place in dark alleys. If we make murder legal, people can murder each other in sterile surroundings.do you guys know what happened is in russia when abortion
was prohibited by the governmant?
girls had abortions in dingy basements and hotels.
often times when the fetus was already in it’s trimester or later.
W
wynnejj
Guest
A man shoots a gun, he has to take responsibility. A man & woman engage in the reproductive act, the resulting baby is a “responsibility”, not a “choice”.when you take away a parents choice to decide to abort,
you, at the same time, take away their choice to give birth also.
how so? because it’s no longer a matter of choice but law.
your parents no longer chose to have you, it’s because they had to.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Personally, I’m kind of glad they “had to.” What’s wrong with that?i’m not deciding for anyone.
it’s for their parents to decide.
when you take away a parents choice to decide to abort,
you, at the same time, take away their choice to give birth also.
how so? because it’s no longer a matter of choice but law.
your parents no longer chose to have you, it’s because they had to.
I’m also glad they didn’t think they had a choice about giving me citizenship, having me baptized, and sending me to school. I see no point in the alternatives, and I don’t think I’d be any better of a person if my parents had had the option to deny me these things.
M
mercygate
Guest
You are suggesting that only the “perfect” have fullness of life.Depends on what you mean by a “full” life. I’ve read a lot of abortions are performed on deformed feti or even when parents have incompatible Rh factors.
P
ProVobis
Guest
No one is “perfect” but I don’t want to be argumentative here. You are right, any human or even non-human can have fullness of life, of course. But many people (not I or you, of course) don’t see it that way. Short people, crippled people, blind people, deaf people, retarded people, etc. are at a disadvantage, let’s face it. Shouldn’t be but they are. It just takes super parents to be able to deal with that. We have to treat these parents in these instances with all the respect in the world, though, in order to discourage those kinds of abortions in the future. Are we all up to it?You are suggesting that only the “perfect” have fullness of life.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Not quite. Even if we get past man-made laws, we still have the Ten Commandments to deal with.That is like saying, murders take place in dark alleys. If we make murder legal, people can murder each other in sterile surroundings.
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