Which is worse or better?

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Which is worse or better, depending on your perspective, a Catholic who has some misgivings/non-acceptance about some Church teachings, but wants to remain a Catholic, or one who has changed to another Christian denomination where that person can more readily accept their teachings, and feels this is more true to God’s word?

Sorry for the “run-on” sentence. Please, no “heresy” attacks, or requests for specifics on misgivings/non-acceptance of Church teachings.

Respectful replies from both Catholics and non-Catholics are welcome. Opinions from folks who have faced this dilemma themselves will be more than appreciated.
 
I would say it is better to stay as Catholic if the other denomination does not believe in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacraments, the communion of Saints, and the baptism of infant.

If the person who has some misgiving info about Catholic, and willing to stay, then the questions are why he/she wants to stay? what he/she hopes for down in the road?

Could he stays because he still believes in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist? Could he stays because he still believes in all the Sacraments which established by Jesus? Would he stay because he hopes someday he will understand and believe all about the teaching? Or would he stay because he does not want to be part of dividing the Church up into pieces?
 
Neither. To be as it were formally “Protesting” truth and thereby either settling for ‘lesser’ truth or even untruth in joining a non-Catholic denomination is certainly not good for any Catholic.

And to resist truth by nonacceptance and to thereby have closed oneself off to truth yet still claim to be in full communion with truth is likewise not good.

There is a huge, huge difference between ‘difficulty’ with a teaching, and ‘doubt’ of a teaching. One can have, as greater minds than mine have posited, 10,000 difficulties which do not add up to one doubt.

So a Catholic who has ‘difficulties’ with a teaching should accept that, in areas where the church teaches “X” and he (or she) has difficulty believing that, the church is ‘right’ and he (or she) is wrong, and pray for the grace and wisdom and understanding to come to the right belief. So long as you humbly submit yourself to obedience and strive to believe, you are on the right path. That is the ‘right’ thing to do.

The ‘wrong’ thing to do is to founder on a given teaching, and either ‘pick and choose’ a group which will ‘let’ you go ahead and believe the problematic teaching (Protestant), or else to insist that, even though the church teaches something you can’t believe, your ‘conscience’ or your ’ Catholic identity’ somehow trumps this difficulty and that therefore you can pretty much believe as you choose and either hope that the Church ‘comes around to your way of thinking/gets progressive’ or else hope that, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter if you believe in ‘all’ the teachings 100% so long as you are ‘sincere’. Unfortunately, all of the evidence we have indicates that we really are going to have to believe 100% (that ‘narrow gate’ and those passages about the sheep and the goats are pretty convincing) and that those who think otherwise are going to have at best a mighty uncomfortable purgatory and at worst an unpleasantly warm destination which they will have freely chosen.
 
Doesn’t it come down to whether or not you believe that the Catholic Church is inerrant in its doctrinal teachings? If you believe that it incapable of error, then those same teachings will also tell you that you must remain in the Catholic Church and submit your will to the magisterium. And, in that case, it would be spiritually dangerous for you to do otherwise. On the other hand, if you believe that the Catholic Church is capable of error in its doctrinal teachings, then you must follow your conscience as informed by the Holy Spirit. In that regard, I think that I would remain where I was unless I was firmly convinced to go otherwhere.

“…acting against one’s conscience is neither safe nor sound. God help me. Amen.”
–Luther
 
mikew262 said:
Which is worse or better, depending on your perspective, a Catholic who has some misgivings/non-acceptance about some Church teachings, but wants to remain a Catholic, or one who has changed to another Christian denomination where that person can more readily accept their teachings, and feels this is more true to God’s word?
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Note the words I bolded and ask yourself what relevance are they?

Readily Accept: Are we supposed to change to suit God or is God/worship supposed to change to suit us? Who is our God, our Creator or ourself?

Feels: Huh? “Feeling”? We are to follow the Holy Spirit. It isn’t about what we feel.

In reality, there is little distinction between sin of dissent vs. the commission of a grave sinful act. Every time I sin, it is an example of placing myself above God.

Some people struggle with sinful acts (Anger, Lust, Sloth, Gluttony) and others struggle with sinful thoughts (Arrogance). No matter what our struggle is (sex sins or dissent), we are called to change and not accept it as normal or endorsed by God.
 
Both Tantum and Orion have given you excellent advise here mike. I’m a perfect example of this little dilema. It really is incumbent on us to form ourselves to fit with God’s Church and not the other way around.

I will pray for you!

Peace
 
Orionthehunter said:
Note the words I bolded and ask yourself what relevance are they?

Readily Accept: Are we supposed to change to suit God or is God/worship supposed to change to suit us? Who is our God, our Creator or ourself?

Feels: Huh? “Feeling”? We are to follow the Holy Spirit. It isn’t about what we feel.

In reality, there is little distinction between sin of dissent vs. the commission of a grave sinful act. Every time I sin, it is an example of placing myself above God.

Some people struggle with sinful acts (Anger, Lust, Sloth, Gluttony) and others struggle with sinful thoughts (Arrogance). No matter what our struggle is (sex sins or dissent), we are called to change and not accept it as normal or endorsed by God.
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The Holy Spirit may be leading a person to another denomination. Most Non-Catholic Christian denominations believe in the Holy Spirit as much as Catholics.
 
rr1213 said:
Luther followed his conscience, refused to recant, and was excommunicated by the Catholic Church.
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Doesn’t mean he is in Hell. Only God knows that. Luther felt the Church had become corrupt and and his conscience wouldn’t let him remain.
 
prodigal-sun said:
Both Tantum and Orion have given you excellent advise here mike. I’m a perfect example of this little dilema. It really is incumbent on us to form ourselves to fit with God’s Church and not the other way around.

I will pray for you!

Peace
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Ahh, but many Christian denominations feel they are God’s Church. Obviously, Catholics feel they have the fullness of Truth; other denominations feel they do and that us Catholics are mixed up.

Sometimes I think God is saying to himself “you all stop bickering among yourselves, none of you have it completely right, nor completely wrong. Each of you have a piece of the truth. Bottom line: If you accept me, Jesus, as the Messiah, that I died for your sins, was resurrected, and you follow the teachings I left you, you are going to make it, no matter what denomination you are”.
 
mikew262 said:
Sometimes I think God is saying to himself “you all stop bickering among yourselves, none of you have it completely right, nor completely wrong. Each of you have a piece of the truth. Bottom line: If you accept me, Jesus, as the Messiah, that I died for your sins, was resurrected, and you follow the teachings I left you, you are going to make it, no matter what denomination you are”.
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God wouldn’t say that for His Sacraments are meant to be used.
 
prodigal-sun said:
Both Tantum and Orion have given you excellent advise here mike
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I agree. They both gave great Catholic answers.

Mike,

Do you think it is possible for a human to know the truth and do you think that every single person who claims to know the truth is correct no matter how sincerely they hold their beliefs?
 
mikew262 said:
Ahh, but many Christian denominations feel they are God’s Church. Obviously, Catholics feel they have the fullness of Truth; other denominations feel they do and that us Catholics are mixed up.

Sometimes I think God is saying to himself “you all stop bickering among yourselves, none of you have it completely right, nor completely wrong. Each of you have a piece of the truth. Bottom line: If you accept me, Jesus, as the Messiah, that I died for your sins, was resurrected, and you follow the teachings I left you, you are going to make it, no matter what denomination you are”.
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But to be able to trust that, you would have to be able to prove it was what God thought.

The revelation ended with Christ and the apostles. And he left a Church for us to remain in. Only one.

God Bless!
 
Mike, I’m going to quote myself from something I originally wrote to you quite awhile ago:
The question you need to ask yourself is: “Do I WANT to believe all that the Catholic Church teaches?” If your heart is seeking to justify your points of unbelief rather than seeking to understand and to assent to the Church’s teaching, you will inevitably stay at on the fringe, so to speak. Perhaps stepping-back from forums that often prompt combative self-justification would be helpful to your developing a deeper prayer life that would be receptive to the promptings of the Holy Spirit Who desire to bring you to the fullness Christ has given to His Church.
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My advice stays the same. 🙂
 
mikew262 said:
Ahh, but many Christian denominations feel they are God’s Church. Obviously, Catholics feel they have the fullness of Truth; other denominations feel they do and that us Catholics are mixed up.

Sometimes I think God is saying to himself “you all stop bickering among yourselves, none of you have it completely right, nor completely wrong. Each of you have a piece of the truth. Bottom line: If you accept me, Jesus, as the Messiah, that I died for your sins, was resurrected, and you follow the teachings I left you, you are going to make it, no matter what denomination you are”.
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I’m sorry, but this is one of those ideas that many progressives in the Church not only use to justify defection to other denominations, but to indifferentialism as well. The Holy Spirit, in its duty to bring the Truth, cannot lead one person to one truth and one person to another. It is how the person interprets the working of the Holy Spirit that determines where they go. I sincerely believe that it is the will of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that all should be within the Catholic Church, where we are infallibily told that the fullness of Truth subsists. Why would one then choose a demonination that is short of this? Not because the Holy Spirit leads them thus, but because ignorance and pride clouds His message.
 
fix said:
I agree. They both gave great Catholic answers.

Mike,

Do you think it is possible for a human to know the truth and do you think that every single person who claims to know the truth is correct no matter how sincerely they hold their beliefs?
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The whole truth, known only truly to God? No, probably not. Your 2nd part of the question, I think you are trying to guide me into the old moral relativism argument. Been there, done that, seen that trap before. BTW, I assume the 2nd part of that question applies to Catholics as well? Do you think you are totally correct? If so, how do you know?
 
Magicsilence said:
But to be able to trust that, you would have to be able to prove it was what God thought.

The revelation ended with Christ and the apostles. And he left a Church for us to remain in. Only one.

God Bless!
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And I assume you are meaning the Catholic Church. If you were a Methodist, you’d be meaning yours and so on. If you allow yourself to think outside of the box for a minute, it can be mind numbing. Perhaps, Christ mean’t the Christian Church and man (with possibly Satan at his side) has done his best over the many years to split it up into many pieces.

I’m not saying the Catholic Church is wrong, but I’m not saying the others have it wrong either. I’m not qualified to make that judgement.
 
FCEGM said:
Mike, I’m going to quote myself from something I originally wrote to you quite awhile ago:

My advice stays the same. 🙂
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And it’s good advice. I do step back from the forum sometimes. It sometimes tends to drive me away from the Church vs. bring me closer.
 
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