Which of Luthers 95 theses

[EA_Man]

Xavier:

But it was the hierarchy of the church which divided the true gospel from its teachings yet you do not hold them accountable. If it was only a rougue priest or three we would not be having this discussion. The whole of the institution was corrupt.

Correct - the Church found an effective fund raising tool in indulgences during the Crusades. As the monetary system of Europe matured, perfoming “acts of contrition” as in Francis’ day was gradually replaced by cash.

The building of St. Peter’s and the overall financial mismangement of the Papal States provided the “need” of selling indulgences. The selling of relics was a big money maker for years as well.

Peace

 

[Xavier]

Lisa4Catholics:

How many of the Apostles were standing at the foot of the Cross Xavier? How many?Judas was a member of the hierarchy was he not?:nope: Jesus set up the hierarchy so your problem is with Jesus not His Church:nope:

There was one apostle. Further proof for a need of the first of the theses.
Do you actually believe that the hierarchy of the 1600s was what God had envisioned?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

EA_Man:

Correct - the Church found an effective fund raising tool in indulgences during the Crusades. As the monetary system of Europe matured, perfoming “acts of contrition” as in Francis’ day was gradually replaced by cash.

The building of St. Peter’s and the overall financial mismangement of the Papal States provided the “need” of selling indulgences. The selling of relics was a big money maker for years as well.

Peace

Are you trying to insult St.Francis?You forgot the Saint I noticed what is your problem with him?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Xavier:

There was one apostle. Further proof for a need of the first of the theses.
Do you actually believe that the hierarchy of the 1600s was what God had envisioned?

How many did NOT abandon JESUS at the crucifixion:nope:

 

[Xavier]

Church Militant:

I’ll start with # “1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.”

This is patently an error since it implies that one can never be free of sin and shows Luther’s own neurotic scrupulosity.

BTW your link still doesn’t work

Do you examine your consciounce prior to communion?

 

[Church_Militant]

EA_Man:

Correct - the Church found an effective fund raising tool in indulgences during the Crusades. As the monetary system of Europe matured, perfoming “acts of contrition” as in Francis’ day was gradually replaced by cash.

The building of St. Peter’s and the overall financial mismangement of the Papal States provided the “need” of selling indulgences. The selling of relics was a big money maker for years as well.

Peace

Correction!! One monk found such and ALL of this was answered and corrected by Trent.

None of what you guys have cited excuses the errant winds of doctrine that Luther let loose in the church.
In fact, I post here again a fine example of the nature of Martin Luther and the arrogance and errors that he openly espoused.

Talk about pride and arrogance! Listen to Luther’s own words:
“You tell me what a great row the Papists are making because the word ‘alone’ is not in the text of Paul If your Papist makes such an unnecessary row about the word ‘alone’, say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so, and say: Papists and asses are one and the same thing’ I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is raeson enough. I know that very well the word 'alone is not in the Latin and Greek text, and it was not necessary for the Papists to teach me that.” (John L. Stoddard’s Rebuilding a Lost Faith TAN Books, 1990)

Then Listen again:
" I hate Esther and 2nd Maccabees so much that I wish they did not exist; they contain too much Judaism and no little hrathen vice." (F.F. Bruce, The Canon of Scripture , 101)

All this because he chose to alter the very Word of God on his own egotistical authority and to support the very errors that he created that had not existed prior to 1517. Now today you want to tell us how cool he was and believe his doctrines? You follow him… I’ll stay with the original Christian church and her teachings.
I love this guy’s humilty and rationality :whacky:

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Xavier:

If Luther had a misunderstanding, how much more an average lay person?

Are you accusing me of misunderstanding them? Unlike Luther (and yourself it seems), I have actually done research into indulgances. I really wish that protestants would take the time to do some real research into the Catholic Church instead of reading biased sources or listening to non-Catholic preachers and then spouting off about what is “wrong” with the Church.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Xavier:

Do you examine your consciounce prior to communion?

Of course he does there is a difference between that and being nuerotic

 

[Church_Militant]

Xavier:

Do you examine your consciounce prior to communion?

Irrelevent… However, every Mass begins with a time of self examination and contrition before God…unlike every n-C service I ever went to.

 

[EA_Man]

Church Militant:

Correction!! One monk found such and ALL of this was answered and corrected by Trent.

Actually, I wasn’t referring to Luther specifically in this case, but to a majority of historians.

Peace

 

[Xavier]

Lisa4Catholics:

How many did NOT abandon JESUS at the crucifixion:nope:

John was the lone apostle at the crucifixion.
which of Luthers theses do you disagree with?

 

[Church_Militant]

Rand Al'Thor:

Are you accusing me of misunderstanding them? Unlike Luther (and yourself it seems), I have actually done research into indulgances. I really wish that protestants would take the time to do some real research into the Catholic Church instead of reading biased sources or listening to non-Catholic preachers and then spouting off about what is “wrong” with the Church.

Very well said Rand!

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

EA_Man:

Actually, I wasn’t referring to Luther specifically in this case, but to a majority of historians.

Peace

Are your historians teaching at Jack Chick University ?

 

[Xavier]

Church Militant:

Irrelevent… However, every Mass begins with a time of self examination and contrition before God…unlike every n-C service I ever went to.

So would you reconsider your disagreement with #1 in light of your own words.

 

[Church_Militant]

EA_Man:

Actually, I wasn’t referring to Luther specifically in this case, but to a majority of historians.

Peace

Cite sources please, or it’s just more unsubstantiated rhetoric…and try not to use biased anti-Catholic ones :yawn:

 

[EA_Man]

I like this one too:

1. Again: – “Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?”

Now that’s a good question.

Peace

 

[Church_Militant]

Xavier:

So would you reconsider your disagreement with #1 in light of your own words.

Why would I ? Luther alleges something different alltogether…as do you I wouldn’t agree with you if you told me it was raining without checking for myself first. You should know that by now…

 

[EA_Man]

Church Militant:

Cite sources please, or it’s just more unsubstantiated rhetoric…and try not to use biased anti-Catholic ones :yawn:

Sure, does “non-Catholic” equal “biased anti-Catholic” or am I constrained to only those sources which carry the Imprimtur?

Peace

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

EA_Man:

I like this one too:

1. Again: – “Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?”

Now that’s a good question.

Peace

http://bestsmileys.com/religous/3.gifOur late Pope gave away everything The Church money is for the Church and her members

 

[Xavier]

Rand Al'Thor:

Are you accusing me of misunderstanding them? Unlike Luther (and yourself it seems), I have actually done research into indulgances. I really wish that protestants would take the time to do some real research into the Catholic Church instead of reading biased sources or listening to non-Catholic preachers and then spouting off about what is “wrong” with the Church.

You totally missed my point.
If you say (which I do not agree with) that Luther misunderstood indulgences.
My reply was: How much more an average lay person in Luthers day would misunderstand them.