Which Office Do You Pray?

[drforjc]

Yeah I forgot to mention, we have a second book used by the community, the Carmelite Proper of the LotH.

… which, unfortunately, is out of print. While I’ve heard accounts that a new version is to be forthcoming, I wonder if part of the wait (besides waiting for approval for new Propers for recently canonized Carmelite saints and blesseds) is the announcement of the Revised Grail Psalms as the new English standard.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

… which, unfortunately, is out of print. While I’ve heard accounts that a new version is to be forthcoming, I wonder if part of the wait (besides waiting for approval for new Propers for recently canonized Carmelite saints and blesseds) is the announcement of the Revised Grail Psalms as the new English standard.

I know this is probably not the news you want to hear but…

At the end of last year we received a Supplement to the Carmelite Proper of the LotH. The contains the new calendar (which we get every year anyways with the Carmeltie Ordo) but it contains the propers for the new saints. It Supplements the 1993 Carmelite Proper (an edition I have not seen). I believe the one we use in our houses dates from the 1980’s. I would need to run to the chapel to check if you are that interested to know.

I did a search to see if I could find the supplement or the proper on google and it took me to the Carmelite Media website that states what you said. It also lists the address as my priory. So I know, and live with, the friar who is the editor.

He is currently away but when he gets back I will talk with him about this and let you know what I can find out.

 

[thomas_jd]

I know this is probably not the news you want to hear but…

At the end of last year we received a Supplement to the Carmelite Proper of the LotH. The contains the new calendar (which we get every year anyways with the Carmeltie Ordo) but it contains the propers for the new saints. It Supplements the 1993 Carmelite Proper (an edition I have not seen). I believe the one we use in our houses dates from the 1980’s. I would need to run to the chapel to check if you are that interested to know.

I did a search to see if I could find the supplement or the proper on google and it took me to the Carmelite Media website that states what you said. It also lists the address as my priory. So I know, and live with, the friar who is the editor.

He is currently away but when he gets back I will talk with him about this and let you know what I can find out.

I have the 1993 proper. If you wish I can check with the woman who acquired this for me and find out if she has any others.

 

[Windmill]

I have tried just about every Office out there (Liturgy of the Hours in English and in Latin, Christian Prayer, Little Office of the BVM pre- and post-concilliar, The pre-concilliar Roman Breviary in Latin and in English, and the Monastic Diurnal in Latin/English).

I can’t bring myself to pray the LotH anymore as the prayers are too focused on social justice and are just too fluffy - and besides, the LotH has no pedigree in Catholic Tradition - it was assembled by a committee in the late 1960’s. They’ve eliminated 3 Psalms and parts of other Psalms. The English is a poor translation of the Latin, and is very mundane. The illustrations are sooooo 70’s.

The all-Latin versions (Liturgia Horarum and Breviarium Romanum) are difficult for me as I am not completely fluent in Latin (but I can get around). However, the illustrations in the old Breviary are typically very inspirational…and the prayers are very meaty.

The Little Offices of the BVM are nice (especially the Baronius Press one), but they are extremely repetitive. Other than that, they have been a staple of lay participation in the Office for centuries.

So, I’ve settled on the Monastic Diurnal since it is both Latin and English, has a rich tradition spanning many centuries, has Collects that spiritually kick your tail into gear, and has hieratic English that is oh-so-nice…and it is very attractively bound and extremely portable. It follows the traditional calendar and, therefore, gives one the sense that they are praying the same feasts that centuries of saints did before. Even though it does not have Matins (or, OOR in the new Office), and therefore, does not have an integral Psalter (all 150 Psalms), it does not pull any punches in the translations and, IMHO, gives me a better sense of spiritual warfare and necessity of Divine Grace.

JMHO.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Thanks for sharing

Just a matter of info:

the prayers after the Psalms are not required. I agree that most of them are a tad touchy-feely…I skip them. To my understanding they do not exist in other language versions, and even in other English language versions.

God bless you for having the time for the MD. (I must add, my monastery’s version of the LotH is easily as long, or very nearly so, as the MD. Some days Lauds and Vespers are actually a tad longer than the MD )

 

[Lepanto]

I have a 4 the Volume, Christan Prayer (one vol.), and used to have Shorted Christian Prayer (but I gave it to a friend). I like having the four volume. I actually got it as a gift from a good priest-friend of mine. I haven’t looked, but I bet the “full” four volume isn’t too cheap…

Catholicben, here is the 4-vol. LOTH online for free (although you should make a donation). It uses the approved translation, whereas the Universalis does not.

divineoffice.org/

P.S…I like your signature!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Catholicben, here is the 4-vol. LOTH online for free (although you should make a donation). It uses the approved translation, whereas the Universalis does not.

divineoffice.org/

P.S…I like your signature!

This is fantastic! A great back up, if I forget a change in Volumes.

Thanks so very much

 

[Bbigam]

Four volume ICEL English translation - but most days I only pray Lauds, Vespers, and Compline (Okay, so ICEL doesn’t use those names. Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer.)

On Sundays, Solemnities, feasts, and some other important days (or days when I just happen to be off work) I make a point to pray the Office of Readings. The Daytime Hours I only ever pray on off-work days, not always then, and rarely all the Hours. But I like having the capability to pray all of them.

I wish the ICEL version included all the original Latin hymns or at least good Latin translations of them. Why so much from the 1960s and 1970s? I also think it’s ridiculous that there hasn’t even been a new supplement published since 1992. There are so many new saints’ days since then!

 

[OraLabora]

Four volume ICEL English translation - but most days I only pray Lauds, Vespers, and Compline (Okay, so ICEL doesn’t use those names. Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer.)

On Sundays, Solemnities, feasts, and some other important days (or days when I just happen to be off work) I make a point to pray the Office of Readings. The Daytime Hours I only ever pray on off-work days, not always then, and rarely all the Hours. But I like having the capability to pray all of them.

I wish the ICEL version included all the original Latin hymns or at least good Latin translations of them. Why so much from the 1960s and 1970s? I also think it’s ridiculous that there hasn’t even been a new supplement published since 1992. There are so many new saints’ days since then!

I would suggest you pick up a copy of Liber Hymnarius from Solesmes, or Paxbook.com (I think they represent Solesmes publications in N. America.

That will give you all the Latin Hymns, and noted for Gregorian Chant. It’s not a huge book, so it will work well with your LOTH.

 

[drforjc]

I know this is probably not the news you want to hear but…

At the end of last year we received a Supplement to the Carmelite Proper of the LotH. The contains the new calendar (which we get every year anyways with the Carmeltie Ordo) but it contains the propers for the new saints. It Supplements the 1993 Carmelite Proper (an edition I have not seen). I believe the one we use in our houses dates from the 1980’s. I would need to run to the chapel to check if you are that interested to know.

I did a search to see if I could find the supplement or the proper on google and it took me to the Carmelite Media website that states what you said. It also lists the address as my priory. So I know, and live with, the friar who is the editor.

He is currently away but when he gets back I will talk with him about this and let you know what I can find out.

If you happen to think of it, let me know what you find out. I want to pray the O.Carm propers, but it seems this requires several books and supplements. I have never seen a 1993 proper either.

 

[Bbigam]

I would suggest you pick up a copy of Liber Hymnarius from Solesmes, or Paxbook.com (I think they represent Solesmes publications in N. America.

That will give you all the Latin Hymns, and noted for Gregorian Chant. It’s not a huge book, so it will work well with your LOTH.

Thanks! When I can afford it…

 

[Stitchwort]

At present I use the 1962 Roman Breviary in English.

I started with the LOTH back in the early 70’s, when all that was available was an “interim edition” which used a pre-existing good English translation. I used this for many years, until it was practically falling apart and I could afford (sort of!) the 4-volume set.

About two or three years of the ICEL version, and I simply couldn’t stand the inadequacies of the translation any more. (Remember, I’d been using a better translation for something like 30 years.) During this period I came across a copy of the Benziger Brothers 1-volume Roman Breviary in English on a table of second-hand books and grabbed it. Now it is the only one I use (unless I’m with a group which uses the standard LOTH.)

I’d love to have a Latin version, and get my very rusty high-school Latin back up, but that is a project for the future. Maybe.

 

[OraLabora]

At present I use the 1962 Roman Breviary in English.

I started with the LOTH back in the early 70’s, when all that was available was an “interim edition” which used a pre-existing good English translation. I used this for many years, until it was practically falling apart and I could afford (sort of!) the 4-volume set.

About two or three years of the ICEL version, and I simply couldn’t stand the inadequacies of the translation any more. (Remember, I’d been using a better translation for something like 30 years.) During this period I came across a copy of the Benziger Brothers 1-volume Roman Breviary in English on a table of second-hand books and grabbed it. Now it is the only one I use (unless I’m with a group which uses the standard LOTH.)

I’d love to have a Latin version, and get my very rusty high-school Latin back up, but that is a project for the future. Maybe.

I do my LOTH in Latin, in Gregorian Chant. It has an approved French translation alongside it (and all the chant notation), so you can if you want psalmody in French instead of Latin (I’m fluent in French) but what I do is pray the Latin and have a brief pause after the Gloria Patri to read through it quickly in French, although over time you get to know the gist of many of the psalms so the need to read it through again diminishes.

I agree that the ICEL English version is a poor translation. When traveling, I use the 4-volume LOTH in French. The translations are much better although there is the same unfortunate tendency to use very insipid and uninspiring hymns that don’t even come close to the beauty of the Latin hymns.

For the Office of Readings I use my French LOTH, as The Gregorian Hours is a diurnal antiphonary and doesn’t have the Office of Readings.

Although I have Nocturnale Romanum based on the 1962 Breviary, noted for Gregorian chant, and there’s a concordance table in the back for the new LOTH. So some day I’ll try to using its antiphons for the Office of Readings.

 

[LBC_Catholic]

I use the 4 volume LOTH version that I bought from the divineoffice.org site on Amazon. I also use the iphone application from divineoffice.org. I taught myself the prayers initially on the iphone and then with the full 4 volume set. What a beautiful way to walk throughout the day…

 

[OraLabora]

I use the 4 volume LOTH version that I bought from the divineoffice.org site on Amazon. I also use the iphone application from divineoffice.org. I taught myself the prayers initially on the iphone and then with the full 4 volume set. What a beautiful way to walk throughout the day…

I agree. I live as a sort of semi-hermit during the day as I work from home and am alone in the house when I do. I have some monastery bells in iTunes and all my Offices are programmed in iCal, so I have bells ring a short time before each office and as each office commences

The 15-minute bell for Vespers in fact has just finished ringing

I have a small oratory in my office (I call my office my “cell”!) where I pray the Hours.

Working from home, sometimes the division between family and work life can get blurred. In particular, Vespers for me marks the point where I try to drop my work and focus on family life.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I use the 4 volume LOTH version that I bought from the divineoffice.org site on Amazon. I also use the iphone application from divineoffice.org. I taught myself the prayers initially on the iphone and then with the full 4 volume set. What a beautiful way to walk throughout the day…

May I ask if the iPhone app is the full LotH (antiphons, hymns, etc)?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I agree. I live as a sort of semi-hermit during the day as I work from home and am alone in the house when I do. I have some monastery bells in iTunes and all my Offices are programmed in iCal, so I have bells ring a short time before each office and as each office commences

The 15-minute bell for Vespers in fact has just finished ringing

I have a small oratory in my office (I call my office my “cell”!) where I pray the Hours.

Working from home, sometimes the division between family and work life can get blurred. In particular, Vespers for me marks the point where I try to drop my work and focus on family life.

iCal, amico mio?

 

[barb_finnegan]

I had been in two Third Orders (nowadays called ‘Secular Orders’) in succession: the Franciscans and the Discalced Carmelites.

In the Franciscans, the fraternity I was in didn’t do the Divine Office / Liturgy of the Hours. As individual members we were supposed to pray twelve Our Father’s, Hail Marys and Glory Bes daily. Since I worked, I usually did them while driving to and from my job, six in the morning and six in the evening. I did learn the one-volume LOTH on my own through trial-and-error, from being around other Third Order Secular Franciscans who did this. The first book I used was from the Daughters of St. Paul.

When I became a Third Order Secular Discalced Carmelite, praying the LOTH was a requirement in our Rule. So I bought a one-volume LOTH at the local Catholic bookstore, published by Catholic Book Publishing. We also had a Supplement for the Carmelite feastdays, from the Insitute of Carmelite Studies (ICS).

I’ve been in a couple of prayer groups that use what I call ‘the skinny Breviary’, Shorter Christian Prayer. For a time, I led a group recitation of Morning Prayer with this book in a parish I was attending.

Now when I have the ‘urge’ to pray the Office, I use the Baronius edition of the ‘The Little Office of the BVM’. I like doing the Latin now, since I attend the EF Mass exclusively. What I do when I pray the Little Office by myself, I pray the Psalms in English, but pray nearly everything from the ‘Little Chapter’ [short reading] to the end in Latin, including the ‘Benedictus’.

 

[zdon011]

The Little Office of the BVM, in Latin, according to the Use of Sarum.

I used to read Matins and Evening Prayer in the 1662 BCP (Anglican). But it got a bit dry (high ‘n’ dry, of course).

 

[LBC_Catholic]

May I ask if the iPhone app is the full LotH (antiphons, hymns, etc)?

The app is complete and does not require a signal to read. It does require a signal to download but I use it on planes with the phone in airport mode frequently. It costs about $10 and updates everyday when you turn the app on. I keeps 5 days of prayers downloaded at all times, yesterday, today and the next three days. Pretty convenient.