Which Protestant Faiths Permit Abortion

[Prodigal_Son1]

You are Sir, a very honest, forthright individual. Thank you for being so honest. And thank you for your apology, although you don’t owe me one.

Maybe it’s an EMT thing.

I just noticed you are a firefighter/EMT. I’m an EMT on an ambulance.

 

[Publisher]

OK, how about phrasing it this way: “Which churches allow a woman to have an abortion for any reason?” Either allow it willy-nilly, or allow it for specific reasons (rape, incest, etc)…

Can anybody think of one? Mormons are the first, whats next?

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Many if not most Protestant groups do not “excommunicate” or disfellowship their members for having an abortion. Neither do any Protestant groups I am aware of “allow it (abortion) willy nilly”.

I do not believe Mormons allow the termination of a pregancy “willy-nilly” but for specific reasons such as the health and welfare of the mother. Most Protestant groups who uphold reproductive choice of the woman have similar concerns.

As I understand the Catholic church also allows the termination of a pregancy if the termination occurs as a secondary occurance not the primary reason…such as an etopic pregnancy or ovarian or uterine cancer where the treatment of the cancer would cause the termination of a pregnancy and not treating it would jeapordize the life of the mother. I do not think Catholics consider such occruances “abortion” do they, but make a distinction? If life does begin at conception, then even allowing the termination of pregnacy as a “secondary occurance, not the primary reason” is still ending a child’s life…if however human life does not begin at conception but at a time not yet determined then we have another issue to discuss.

Those groups who do not adhere to the Catholic view of “life begins at conception”, in my experience, counsel those women who choose to terminate their pregnancy to consider their choice as a grave concern. In my experience in discussing reporductive rights of women, it typically leaves no room for “willy-nilly” choices nor is abortion used as “an acceptable form of birth control”.

I believe in the sacredness of life. I believe we are people of conscience. I may disagree with a woman who seeks to terminate her pregnancy and I may even view such termination as wrong and a sin…and once she has made the choice and terminated her pregnacy, pastoral care is to be offered without prejudice.

Those women who make a choice that I am acquainted with have done so with much prayer and fear. It is an unfortunate situation and those women who are Friends have been brought under the care of the Meeting. They are not “excommunicated” or “read out of Meeting” for terminating their pregnancy but neither are their choices applauded or praised…

It seems to me the manner in which the questions have been asked seek to make an implication that terminating a pregancy is of no great importance…especially when phrases such as “willy-nilly” and “acceptable method of birth control” are employed.

 

[ElisabethM]

On one level the answer is “all” since, I don’t think, any Protestant denominations would kick anyone out for having or supporting an abortion.

And, on another level, the answer is “all” because they all, I think, allow artifical contraception, both the door to the abortion mentality and often the means of abortion (since many contraceptives are abortifacients).

Then there’s another level where you find the Protestant denominations spread across a continuum. On the one end you have denominations like the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) with strong pro-life groups and pastors who will preach against it (at least they did before I left in 1998). I don’t know if the denomination has any official anti-abortion statements. Also on this end, I think you’ll find a lot of conservative Baptist denominations, but, again, I don’t know of any that have an official statement.

On the other end of this spectrum, of course, are the uber-liberal denominations who pride themselves on promoting abortion rights.

I’ll tell you, I was very impressed watching the March For Life in D.C. when an orthodox Jewish rabbi spoke. My, oh my! I have never heard a better pro-life speech in my life. So, even though other religious groups don’t have the official position against abortion that the RC Church does, there are many strong groups out there.

BTW, what’s the point of your question, if I may ask?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Many if not most Protestant groups do not “excommunicate” or disfellowship their members for having an abortion. Neither do any Protestant groups I am aware of “allow it (abortion) willy nilly”.

I do not believe Mormons allow the termination of a pregancy “willy-nilly” but for specific reasons such as the health and welfare of the mother. Most Protestant groups who uphold reproductive choice of the woman have similar concerns.

As I understand the Catholic church also allows the termination of a pregancy if the termination occurs as a secondary occurance not the primary reason…such as an etopic pregnancy or ovarian or uterine cancer where the treatment of the cancer would cause the termination of a pregnancy and not treating it would jeapordize the life of the mother. I do not think Catholics consider such occruances “abortion” do they, but make a distinction? If life does begin at conception, then even allowing the termination of pregnacy as a “secondary occurance, not the primary reason” is still ending a child’s life…if however human life does not begin at conception but at a time not yet determined then we have another issue to discuss.

Those groups who do not adhere to the Catholic view of “life begins at conception”, in my experience, counsel those women who choose to terminate their pregnancy to consider their choice as a grave concern. In my experience in discussing reporductive rights of women, it typically leaves no room for “willy-nilly” choices nor is abortion used as “an acceptable form of birth control”.

I believe in the sacredness of life. I believe we are people of conscience. I may disagree with a woman who seeks to terminate her pregnancy and I may even view such termination as wrong and a sin…and once she has made the choice and terminated her pregnacy, pastoral care is to be offered without prejudice.

Those women who make a choice that I am acquainted with have done so with much prayer and fear. It is an unfortunate situation and those women who are Friends have been brought under the care of the Meeting. They are not “excommunicated” or “read out of Meeting” for terminating their pregnancy but neither are their choices applauded or praised…

It seems to me the manner in which the questions have been asked seek to make an implication that terminating a pregancy is of no great importance…especially when phrases such as “willy-nilly” and “acceptable method of birth control” are employed.

I did not mean anything offensive by using the phrase ‘acceptable method of birth control’. Abortion is a birth control for non-believers and ‘acceptable’ is a definition asking if any people of faith determined justifiable reasons for abortions.

Abortion may not be a reason for excommunication among some Churches. This seems to lessen the seriousness of what abortion is, at least in the eyes of Catholics. To explain a bit further, there are other reasons Churches will excommunicate members, so there are other things they consider more serious than abortion, again as it seems in the eyes of Catholics.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Maybe it’s an EMT thing.

I just noticed you are a firefighter/EMT. I’m an EMT on an ambulance.

Are you a paid or volunteer EMT? How long have you been doing this?

 

[Publisher]

I did not mean anything offensive by using the phrase ‘acceptable method of birth control’. Abortion is a birth control for non-believers and ‘acceptable’ is a definition asking if any people of faith determined justifiable reasons for abortions.
Abortion may not be a reason for excommunication among some Churches. This seems to lessen the seriousness of what abortion is, at least in the eyes of Catholics. To explain a bit further, there are other reasons Churches will excommunicate members, so there are other things they consider more serious than abortion, again as it seems in the eyes of Catholics.

I guess I didn’t realize we were discussing “non-believers”…I thought we were discussing “Protestant Faiths”…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Are you a paid or volunteer EMT? How long have you been doing this?

I’m paid and I’ve only been doing this for a year now. I made a career change late in life and wished I had done this 20 years ago. It’s much more rewarding, to me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I guess I didn’t realize we were discussing “non-believers”…I thought we were discussing “Protestant Faiths”…

Yes, we’re discussing Protestant faiths. Protestant faiths came from the one Catholic faith, but they didn’t accept, or take, all the Catholic beliefs with them. There are some beliefs they do not believe, or are ‘non-believers’ of. I’m not trying to use semantics to make a point for anyone being right or wrong, as it seems some are set to do. I am trying to find what people consider ‘acceptable reasons’ for abortions. Then we can discuss those reasons, hopefully in light of our faiths to try and acheive the most truth possible, for all sides. Hopefully, I have explained this well enough to be acceptable to continue the discussion, in your eyes.

 

[Carlan]

I have noticed the absents of Faiths not wishing to participate in this thread except for the three or four remaining posters. I do think that speaks volumes, at least in the Catholic sense we do admit the sin and try our best to deal with the horror of it.God help us, Peace, Carlan

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

I understood that Protestantism, changed their rule on birthcontrol before 1930. They lifted the ban and now condone it. Attempts at birth control leads to murder,the 6th commandment. Carlan

Most denom.s that I know say “If it doesnt offend your conscience” but make no mention of the implicit sin involved. Also they fail to take into account what having a “well-formed” conscience entails.

What church allows or denies any man to do anything? It implies that the church has policing power over its members. A 9 year old girl has no political power so does she have different rules applied to her then the Speaker of the US House of Rpresentatives?

Im confused… The post seems to have no point… I must be tired today…

And thanks be to God the Catholic Church didn’t mind much allowing a full Catholic funeral and burial. I don’t recall the Pope stepping in and putting a stop to the Mass. In fact I recall an exchange of letters between Sen Kennedy and the Pope being read at graveside by the presiding member of hierarchy.

The letters were read with no regard to the intent of the letters. They were intended to be private, since the Papal letters to politicians are in almost all occasions public. “The exception that proves the rule” so to speak… exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis

Thank you for articulating your experiences with others and reasons you offered.

It would be interesting in hearing from one of those who believe the soul ‘appears later on’. Maybe they could explain where that ‘belief’ comes from.

Even though, I might not agree with the Episcopal Church’s support, I can somewhat understand their view that it falls under the individual’s conscience idea. I have to be honest and state, I’ve often wondered how man can legislate, and thereby forbidding, what God does not, through the free will He gives us.

X2

Conception begins at conception. I havent read up enough to know the cases cited above (health of the mother) but they are INCREDIBLY infrequent and there are several women on this forum whose posts I have read who made the choice of giving their child life over medicating their own conditions. Look at Tim Tebow for one example.

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[FidesSpesCarita]

I have noticed the absents of Faiths not wishing to participate in this thread except for the three or four remaining posters. I do think that speaks volumes, at least in the Catholic sense we do admit the sin and try our best to deal with the horror of it.God help us, Peace, Carlan

Lack of posts means very little sir. No disrespect intended, but its the old “no evidence against is not evidence for” thing…

Just a pet peeve of mine, sorry.

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[Jon_Hus]

I’m paid and I’ve only been doing this for a year now. I made a career change late in life and wished I had done this 20 years ago. It’s much more rewarding, to me.

I have been a vollie firefighter for 6 years. Just last month I received my EMT card, like you late in life. I’m volunteering for now, trying to determine if I really like this and if yes, I will apply for paramedic school in the fall. Even so, if I go to full time paramedic, it would be a pay cut but one I might be able to live with.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have been a vollie firefighter for 6 years. Just last month I received my EMT card, like you late in life. I’m volunteering for now, trying to determine if I really like this and if yes, I will apply for paramedic school in the fall. Even so, if I go to full time paramedic, it would be a pay cut but one I might be able to live with.

You’re not going to believe this. I am considering paramedic school in August. When I told you I made a career change, I make considerably less than I did before deciding to become an EMT. I tried ‘first responding’ when I first received my license, but now as a full time EMT I get my fill and don’t want to ‘burn myself out’. (I just got off 97 hours straight this past Sunday morning at 9AM.) I find I need time to regenerate before climbing back in the saddle each time.

 

[Bluegoat]

Conception begins at conception. I havent read up enough to know the cases cited above (health of the mother) but they are INCREDIBLY infrequent and there are several women on this forum whose posts I have read who made the choice of giving their child life over medicating their own conditions. Look at Tim Tebow for one example.

FSC

The question actually was when the soul is joined to the body. There have even been disagreement over this in Catholic circles. Just when conception happens is another problem, essentially a scientific one. We know that it happens within a short time of ovulation, but knowledge of a woman’s cycles is much more complete now than in the past. When ovulation happens was not always well known.

Remember there was a time when it was thought that the whole of the seed came from the man, and it was only incubated in the womb - conception had a rather different meaning. Clearly the seed had no “soul” when it was still in the man, so the question for those that held that belief was, when did it appear? Some thought when the woman first felt the baby move. Others (Thomas Aquinas I believe) thought it was after sex differences appeared in the fetus, because the soul had to be male or female.

As far as people who think the soul is infused some time after conception. I have heard it argued that it must be after the time when division into twins can happen. Or that it is after a certain level of complexity it achieved.

But to be honest, I find most Catholics don’t know why Catholicism teaches that the soul is present from conception. It isn’t the easiest subject, since we can’t see the soul - I suspect many people find it a very abstract argument.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

The question actually was when the soul is joined to the body. There have even been disagreement over this in Catholic circles. Just when conception happens is another problem, essentially a scientific one. We know that it happens within a short time of ovulation, but knowledge of a woman’s cycles is much more complete now than in the past. When ovulation happens was not always well known.

Remember there was a time when it was thought that the whole of the seed came from the man, and it was only incubated in the womb - conception had a rather different meaning. Clearly the seed had no “soul” when it was still in the man, so the question for those that held that belief was, when did it appear? Some thought when the woman first felt the baby move. Others (Thomas Aquinas I believe) thought it was after sex differences appeared in the fetus, because the soul had to be male or female.

As far as people who think the soul is infused some time after conception. I have heard it argued that it must be after the time when division into twins can happen. Or that it is after a certain level of complexity it achieved.

But to be honest, I find most Catholics don’t know why Catholicism teaches that the soul is present from conception. It isn’t the easiest subject, since we can’t see the soul - I suspect many people find it a very abstract argument.

From what I know there are two camps here, “Before I formed you in your mothers womb I knew you” and “The soul comes with the blood”. We cannot know with certainty when the soul is joined to the physical being, and that IMHO is why the Catholic Church says the the soul joins at conception, it prevents the murder of abortion.

Hopefully someone would help me out with explaining those two sides…

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[lil_flower_luv]

Could you refresh my memory? What was the reasoning or justification the late US Sen. Edward “Ted” Kennedy gave for the practice?

There is a huge difference between a “Catholic” and a TRUE Catholic. When the president was speaking to the press on Ash Wednesday, Joe Biden stood next to him with his ashes almost as if it was a big joke. There were many hypocrites in Jesus’ time and He called them on it. Well, there are still many hypocrites today.

And since I’m late to the discussion: Have we found out if there are protestant faiths that promote any form of contraception, namely abortifacients?

God Bless!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

But to be honest, I find most Catholics don’t know why Catholicism teaches that the soul is present from conception. It isn’t the easiest subject, since we can’t see the soul - I suspect many people find it a very abstract argument.

The Catholic Church is clear on when life begins. Can a life begin without a soul? Why would “most Catholics” be unsure as to why a soul is present from conception?

 

[CMatt25]

]Those women who make a choice that I am acquainted with have done so with much prayer and fear.

I :tiphat: to you. Far too often Catholics I think fail to understand women who make their legal choice, do so after much thought and prayer and after consultations with their doctors and perhaps even with their clergy.

 

[ElisabethM]

I :tiphat: to you. Far too often Catholics I think fail to understand women who make their legal choice, do so after much thought and prayer and after consultations with their doctors and perhaps even with their clergy.

I don’t understand this. It sounds like, “I prayed about it, so I know I made the right choice.” Praying about something does not excuse choosing evil. God, whom I am assuming is the object of one’s prayer, would never lead one to sin.

 

[ElisabethM]

And since I’m late to the discussion: Have we found out if there are protestant faiths that promote any form of contraception, namely abortifacients?

God Bless!

Are there any that don’t? My family are all Protestant (mostly Lutheran, one sister is Evangelical who is also an M.D.). They all fully embrace contraception as “responsible parenting”. They are also anti-abortion but do not see the contradiction (though, as opportunity permits, I try my best to enlighten them ).