while confessing, is the presence of a priest required?

[pablope]

Hmmm, I am not sure about that.

I can only Imagine what it will be like …

Listen to this song …
youtube.com/watch?v=rBnmEbIF_yY

Check the book of Revelations…and this book…The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn.

 

[pablope]

you wont like my answer

Jesus declared “It is finished” on the cross right?
The work is finished ,

PERIOD

Jesus said when it is finished…it is His work that is finished…but where did He also say that our work is finished?

Or is our work just about to begin while his work is finished?

The only thing I need to do to be forgive is
Admit guilt
Believe in Jesus
Confess and repent my sin

the work I do is out of total appreciation of what the Lord has done for me
There is no “work” I do because I feel I have to do it or else I will not be forgiven

He also said this:

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

 

[pablope]

Yes
I live in debt, have physical pain I wish wasn’t there, no job, brother who is diabetic,
want me to go on with more?

sure there is

David eventually confessed

ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Did Christ also not say to carry our cross?
Yes
I live in debt, have physical pain I wish wasn’t there, no job, brother who is diabetic,
want me to go on with more?

But what do you do with this cross? Do you help carry the cross of others too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Actually…there is a lot more to it:
sure there is
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
What do you think David does here?
David eventually confessed

What did David do before he confessed? And why did God had to send Nathan to David? For what purpose?

 

[onHisteam]

Posted by onHisteam

according to your advice I am in the wrong church…oh well see you in paradise
I am glad you are not God

…replying to John Q Sinner

I know you do not mean this

Reuben, I meant what I said (looking through John’s eyes),
Of course I personally believe I am in the right church and so are you for that matter.

the reason John made the suggestion …

Find your Christian brother and ask them if they have the power to forgive or retain your sins. If they don’t and don’t know of anyone in their Church that can, then this is a hint you are in the wrong Church.

is so he did not have to directly tell me that he believes I am in the wrong church

but we are encouraged and I often encouraged others to see the Jesus that is in us, in each individual, for there is the Jesus in us.

Amen, so do I

We need to look for that when we see a person, sometimes to let it be a mirror image of us. The Jesus in him no matter what he is.

Amen.

We used to sing this song in the younger days:

I am so glad I have Jesus
I am so glad I have Jesus
I am so glad I have Jesus,
Alleluia praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord, Amen, Amen
Praise the Lord, Amen, Amen
Praise the Lord, Amen, Amen,
Alleluia praise the Lord.​

beautiful

In singing that I acknowledge that Jesus is in me and when we sing it together, we also acknowledge that Jesus is in them too.

I am singing it with you bro

 

[JRKH]

** Originally Posted by JRKH>>**

We covered quite a number of things on the other thread and given that there are 5 pages of discussion, I do not feel like hunting through the replies to see if we did or did not specifically cover the question of how one knows if they are actually on the boat.
If you could summarize it here - that would be much appreciated.

God doesn’t lie, but human beings can certainly deceive themselves.

Amen…
And this ability to self deceive is why the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, teaches so strongly in favor of an authoritative ekklesia (Church) AND repeatedly exhorts us to unity of mind.

Peace
James

 

[onHisteam]

What did David do before he confessed? And why did God had to send Nathan to David? For what purpose?

ok before I answer your question I will answer the next one and then I like you to ask you a couple questions, fair enough?..

But what do you do with this cross?

For one…Do you think it is easy coming on here, humbling myself on this forum, answering all these question that hint I may have false beliefs ???

It is so refreshing to me that at least one person knows the true heart of the matter…Reuben
and not one person acknowledged him for his heart in being so humble as to pour his heart out in prayer.
Instead, I was challenged to answer more questions about what I believe

One did say there are no “we’s” only “I’s” in Reubens prayer…
To that I say …when will we as Christians, STOP trying to test our brethren and/or nit - picking looking for their faults.
Reuben said it best

I often encouraged others to see the Jesus that is in us, in each individual, for there is the Jesus in us. We need to look for that when we see a person, sometimes to let it be a mirror image of us. The Jesus in him no matter what he is.
pablope;11030317:

Do you help carry the cross of others too?

I got a large list of people, God sent me too in my life, who I helped carry there cross
Just recently helping a church feed and pray with what the world would call the low life of the city,
over 150 people, mainly consisting of thieves, prostitutes, drug addicted people, homeless etc , came to this church to be fed a hot meal probably for the first time in a week,
this church is located smack in the middle of that neighborhood

As I was serving them their meal, I did not see what was wrong with them, I saw the heart of Jesus in every one, I know Jesus has plans for each one of those people’s lives

One more …

one of which was when I knee cap to knee cap with my friend “Joe”

the best part of this story is on this night is the first time I met “Joe”

I sat with him in his living room
He had no faith whatsoever
His life was a mess by his own omission not mine
He said there was no hope for Him
He believed he was going to hell
He was right had he died right then
He did not know anything about the forgiven grace of Jesus Christ
Long story short …,
God gave me the words to say in love,
encouragement and support and …
by the time the night was over
He said a prayer of confession similar to Reubens
There were tears of joy as the chains of bondage were broken
My friend was a totally changed person in a matter of a few hours
because God sent His servant to carry the cross, and she the burden of a brethren in need

and I got many more to tell …

My question to you is when was the last time you encountered **someone you never met **in life and invited them to your church and that person is now your best friend for life **because you humbled yourself and reached out to him even though you did not even know him **

That would be a true Christ follower

Remember Jesus ask the Samaritan woman at the well for a drink in John 4

I encourage you to read the chapter

here is my question …

verse 32 Jesus says, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.”
What kind of food is Jesus talking about here?

 

[onHisteam]

we did specifically cover the question of how one knows if they are actually on the boat.
If you could summarize it here - that would be much appreciated.

sure
in short, when you were describing the difference between jumping or falling in the water I replied

btw whether I fall into or jump into the water, I am still in the water and need to call out(repent) to get hauled back on board , correct? seriously

you responded quite simply with a

Correct

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=808749&page=4
post 46

And this ability to self deceive is why the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, teaches so strongly in favor of an authoritative ekklesia (Church) AND repeatedly exhorts us to unity of mind.

It is why the Holy Spirit reigns in all of us not just in the bible. you believe that right?

And I strive to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit within me. Am I perfect at doing so?
Absolutely not, Thank God for Jesus

 

[onHisteam]

Check the book of Revelations…and this book…The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn.

You missed my point

In worship you might be singing alleluia
I might just be there speechless soaking it all in and on my knees

Yes, for those who make it to heaven, we will be all in the same heaven…

 

[JRKH]

sure
in short, when you were describing the difference between jumping or falling in the water I replied

you responded quite simply with a

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=808749&page=4
post 46

Fair enough…but is repentance the only requirement…

It is why the Holy Spirit reigns in all of us not just in the bible. you believe that right?

Actually no I do not believe this. There are many in which the Holy Spirit does not reign and even among those who believe they are led by the Holy Spirit…some may be deceived.
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can teach opposing things to different people - and both things be true?
You deny the real presence in the bread and wine - based on your “Spirit led” belief.
I believe in the real presence in the bread and wine - based on my “Spirit led” belief.
Since these views are opposed to one another…they cannot both be true…so one of them is not the result of the Holy Spirit.
We are both sincere…but we cannot both be right.
Jesus and St Paul both say that a proper understanding of this is important - and we know this because the Holy Spirit caused these things to be recorded in Scripture.
So - since this is something important - and it seems that one of us is deceived…the question becomes…how do we discern who is wrong and who is right?
What does Scripture say on the matter???

And I strive to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit within me. Am I perfect at doing so?
Absolutely not, Thank God for Jesus

I know that you do - and I am not perfect either -
But please take seriously what I am saying here…There are differences that may not matter much…but there are others that may be of critical importance.
Spirit guidance is wonderful…but NT Scripture requires that we submit any personal spirit guidance to the testing of others…to the testing of the Church…in other words we avoid error by submitting to and listening to “The Church” (Mt 18:17).

Peace
James

 

[JustaServant]

OHT, I think what is confusing you is the difference between how Catholics view salavation, and how evangelicals view it. One is “experiential”, the other is a process. The first is very new to Christian history, the later has been the norm.
First of all, the dramatic life-changing “Born Again” experiences reported by many is subjective – they vary in degree from person to person.
Secondly, these groups then take what is subjective and try to make it normative. In other words, they take these very personal encounters and insist that everyone must have a similar experience.
For the Catholic, one can reasonably have the assurance of hope that if one obeys the commandments, loving God and loving neighbor and confessing/repenting of all mortal sin, one will be saved by Jesus Christ from judgment and hell.
It’s possible for Catholics to have the dramatic “experience” attested by many non-Catholics. But the “experience” is not equated with salvation.
2000 years of Church history is silent on that, until the last two centuries.
But the perception of non-Catholics is that these folks are “saved” by virtue of their experience, and* in spite of* the Church rather than through Her.
You mention “Joe”.
No one is denying Joe the experience.
What we are saying is that “experience” is not salvation.
Salvation is a life-long process, not a one-time event.

 

[onHisteam]

Fair enough…but is repentance the only requirement…

other than admitting guilt, believing Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and confessing,

Yes.

It is why the Holy Spirit reigns in all of us not just in the bible. you believe that right?

Actually no I do not believe this.

wow you surprised me with that answer,
Some Catholics do …go back and read Reubens testimony 29 and 43 and how he referred to his spirit

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can teach opposing things to different people - and both things be true? You deny the real presence in the bread and wine - based on your “Spirit led” belief.
I believe in the real presence in the bread and wine - based on my “Spirit led” belief.
Since these views are opposed to one another…they cannot both be true…so one of them is not the result of the Holy Spirit. We are both sincere…but we cannot both be right.

true…

it seems that one of us is deceived…the question becomes…how do we discern who is wrong and who is right?
What does Scripture say on the matter?

answering will lead into a lengthy conversation

in other words we avoid error by submitting to and listening to “The Church” (Mt 18:17).

Here is another difference, yes listening to Christ followers within the church is wonderful, I am inspired by a lot of people in my church

but if they offer me any kind of teaching, I do not only listen to the “church” I listened to the very word of God, Does what I am being taught coincide with God’s word in the bible.

And that is true even with the teaching from my pastor.

 

[onHisteam]

Salvation is a life-long process, not a one-time event.

you mean to tell me that right after you go to confession and pour your heart out to the priest and confess those grave sins you may have comitted, repent, say your penance you do not believe you are in a state of grace?

I am going to assume you do based on another posters comment to that question

well if you are in a state of grace right at that moment in time,
you will go to heaven should you die right then and there, correct??

oh wait… there might be a purging process you believe in

even if that is the case there is NO WAY God would deny you heaven at some point in the future

Correct???

If correct, then Confession has ***saved you for a brief moment ***in time

And after you sin again after that, you have to repeat the process all over again with confession right??? ,

 

[jmcrae]

other than admitting guilt, believing Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and confessing,

And if we believe Jesus (be baptized, go to Confession, receive the Holy Spirit, eat My Body, drink My blood, marry only once, appoint Deacons and Presbyters, hear the Bishops, and when you are sick, be anointed by the Presbyter) ought we not to do as He commands?

Or what does “believing” really mean? Shouldn’t it mean that we assume that Jesus is telling us to do things that we ought to do?

wow you surprised me with that answer,
Some Catholics do …go back and read Reubens testimony 29 and 43 and how he referred to his spirit

Yes, Reuben is very spirit-filled, and he made it plain that he receives the Holy Spirit when he goes to Confession and prays his Novenas.

 

[jmcrae]

you mean to tell me that right after you go to confession and pour your heart out to the priest and confess those grave sins you may have comitted, repent, say your penance you do not believe you are in a state of grace?

Of course - but to remain in a state of grace you must remain in the Church and do what is required of Catholics.

And after you sin again after that, you have to repeat the process all over again with confession right??? ,

Right.

 

[concretecamper]

you mean to tell me that right after you go to confession and pour your heart out to the priest and confess those grave sins you may have comitted, repent, say your penance you do not believe you are in a state of grace?

I am going to assume you do based on another posters comment to that question

well if you are in a state of grace right at that moment in time,
you will go to heaven should you die right then and there, correct??

oh wait… there might be a purging process you believe in

even if that is the case there is NO WAY God would deny you heaven at some point in the future

Correct???

If correct, then Confession has ***saved you for a brief moment ***in time

And after you sin again after that, you have to repeat the process all over again with confession right??? ,

“Work out you salvation with fear and trembling.” If Paul cannot convince you that salvation is a process, I doubt anyone here can.

“we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life.”. If James cannot convince you, I doubt anyone here can.

“by His mercy we have been born anew to a living “hope” through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”. If Peter cannot convince you, I doubt anyone here can.

“and everyone who thus “hopes” in Him purifies himself as He is pure.”. If John cannot convince you, I doubt anyone here can.

Please review God’s word because this is just a sample of the truth and it refutes the false doctrine that salvation is a one time event and salvation cannot be lost. Christ in His mercy has given us a means of forgiveness because He knows we will fall, and fall again, and fall again. That fall may be little, it may be huge.

I heard in a talk…"the center of sin is “I”. And in the sacrament of confession we imitate Christ by humbling ourselves. The first thing that dies in confession is pride. And guess what is at the center of pride?

 

[JRKH]

other than admitting guilt, believing Jesus is the way the truth and the life, and confessing,

Yes.

So - obedience to His commands does not enter into it? Or is such obedience seen as part and parcel of belief?

wow you surprised me with that answer,
Some Catholics do …go back and read Reubens testimony 29 and 43 and how he referred to his spirit

You might have misunderstood me…or perhaps you did not read the entire response since you chose to quote and reply only to one very short statement.
To summarize…I said that most all may believe that they are being led by the Holy Spirit but some may well be deceived.

Originally Posted by JRKH>>
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can teach opposing things to different people - and both things be true? You deny the real presence in the bread and wine - based on your “Spirit led” belief.
I believe in the real presence in the bread and wine - based on my “Spirit led” belief.
Since these views are opposed to one another…they cannot both be true…so one of them is not the result of the Holy Spirit. We are both sincere…but we cannot both be right.

true…

Which means that one of us may be being led by a less than holy spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKH>>
it seems that one of us is deceived…the question becomes…how do we discern who is wrong and who is right?
What does Scripture say on the matter?

answering will lead into a lengthy conversation

Agreed - it could be a lengthy conversation…but then it already HAS been a lengthy conversation. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by JRKH >>
in other words we avoid error by submitting to and listening to “The Church” (Mt 18:17).

Here is another difference, yes listening to Christ followers within the church is wonderful, I am inspired by a lot of people in my church

but if they offer me any kind of teaching, I do not only listen to the “church” I listened to the very word of God, Does what I am being taught coincide with God’s word in the bible.

And that is true even with the teaching from my pastor.

Great - you compare what you are taught to what is in the bible…that’s great.

So - Please show me in Scripture where Christ or the Apostles taught that it is acceptable to place your own personal interpretation over and above the teachings of the Church.

Peace
James

 

[pablope]

ok before I answer your question I will answer the next one and then I like you to ask you a couple questions, fair enough?..

Fair enough…but I think you are the one under interrogation…

For one…Do you think it is easy coming on here, humbling myself on this forum, answering all these question that hint I may have false beliefs ???

 

[pablope]

ot

Here is another difference, yes listening to Christ followers within the church is wonderful, I am inspired by a lot of people in my church

but if they offer me any kind of teaching, I do not only listen to the “church” I listened to the very word of God, Does what I am being taught coincide with God’s word in the bible.

And that is true even with the teaching from my pastor.

Okay…are you the one who decides whether what is being taught coincides with what is the Bible?

If not you…then who? How can you tell if what is being taught to you is the truth and not the truth? How do you sift through it?

 

[Holly3278]

Under normative circumstances - and for mortal sins - yes.

To God through the Priest. This is in keeping with the authority God granted to the Apostles (and their successors) to bind or loose sin.

This is where we begin to get into the normative vs the non-normative situations.

Normative - the Catholic who willingly commits grave sin knows that confession is a requirement of contrition and absolution. If he asks forgiveness - but without the intent to confession - what does this say about the sincerity of his alleged repentance?
And if he is not truly sorry - as evidenced by his unwillingness to go to confession as he knows is required…then how can his sin be forgiven? The bottom line is that he is not truly repentant.

Non-normative situations that are often brought up is the idea of repenting, asking forgiveness intending to confess but then dying before being able to get to confession. In such extra-ordinary circumstances the intent to confess is seen as sufficient.

Hope this helps a bit.

Peace
James

Is this really official as for the intent to Confess? From what I understand, one must make an Act of Perfect Contrition with the intent to Confess. In other words, one must be sorry primarily for having offended God but also because of Hell or one can be sorry solely for offending God and then tell God that and firmly intend to amend one’s life and go to Confession.

 

[John_Q_Sinner]

After 5 pages of OHT dodging the scriptures presented that show clearly Christ gave the ambassadors of His Church the authority to forgive and retain sins, I think it’s time for OHT to give use the scriptural support for private confession and the reason for why this is the method of confessing ones sins. It seems a little bit odd that Christ would give His ambassadors this authority to forgive and retain sins, AFTER HIS DEATH, when the price of sin had been paid, if we could just confess privately by ourselves and receive absolution.

But let’s step away and notice another reason for confessing your sins to another. It is because as fallen humans our judgment is flawed and we tend to excuse ourselves rather than accuse ourselves of our wrongs. This very reason is why Christ gave his ambassadors the authority to RETAIN sins because they would be the ones who would determine if their Christian brothers were sorry for their sins or if they were just abusing the sacrament.