While Europe Slept

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onesimplemind:
Bombs do a much better job than burning effigies.As many as it takes.
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and i think giving support to America on its hunt for bin laden does a better job than burning effigies as well…
 
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pro_universal:
That’s ridiculous. A 500,000 person faux protest???

Come on, you’re stretching it now
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Where is the burning terrorist effigy. The real muslim protests burn stuff, like flags, products, a Bush effigy here or there.
 
 
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Muslim:
and i think giving support to America on its hunt for bin laden does a better job than burning effigies as well…
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Like the Iraqi army? Whats happening to them a la jihad.

The Pakistani gov’t? The U.S. had to use full intimidation, and the pakistatnis still riot about that.

The Saudis? See above.

The eygptians? See above.

These tiqqiya protesters? For the first time in history, there is a country capable of wiping out the Islamic world. If I were a muslim I would try to appease that country at its time of anger too.

I
 
These tiqqiya protesters? For the first time in history, there is a country capable of wiping out the Islamic world. If I were a muslim I would try to appease that country at its time of anger too.
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Your demands are unreasonable.

You first claim there is no muslim reaction to terrorism. When Muslim gives you a series of sources to disprove that, you say:

“Well, it’s not enough, they should burn bin laden.” So protesting terrorism has to be done in exactly the way you think it should be done to be a real protest?

Next, you say “it’s all tiqqiya *”

So even if they burned bin laden effigies, you would just say that’s a clever ploy to fool the rest of us.

I see no possible way that you could be convinced that muslims oppose terrorism, if this is your thought process. If muslims do oppose terrorism, you say it’s a lie. If they’re silent, you say that’s support. Nothing they can say to you will be convincing, so that to me says this isn’t about evidence…this is about you wanting to believe muslims are bad no matter what the evidence says.*
 
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pro_universal:
So even if they burned bin laden effigies, you would just say that’s a clever ploy to fool the rest of us.

I see no possible way that you could be convinced that muslims oppose terrorism, if this is your thought process. If muslims do oppose terrorism, you say it’s a lie. If they’re silent, you say that’s support. Nothing they can say to you will be convincing, so that to me says this isn’t about evidence…this is about you wanting to believe muslims are bad no matter what the evidence says.
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My mistake about the tiqqiya taqqiya thing.

middle-east-online.com/english/?id=15689

Burning an Osama effigy would be circumstantial evidence that muslims don’t support this terrorist madman or terrorism in general. Burning Osama in a muslim country would be greater evidence. Burning Osama and going into conniptions at the same frequency in the same areas as the anti-cartoonist protests, would be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. There is a very good reason why burning Osama is important and you are smart enough to know what that reason is.

calsun.canoe.ca/News/World/2006/02/07/1429369-sun.html
 
Burning an Osama effigy would be circumstantial evidence that muslims don’t support this terrorist madman or terrorism in general. Burning Osama in a muslim country would be greater evidence. Burning Osama and going into conniptions at the same frequency in the same areas as the anti-cartoonist protests, would be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. There is a very good reason why burning Osama is important and you are smart enough to know what that reason is.
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The only possible reason I can come up with, that you might have for writing this, is that Osama bin laden wasn’t burned in the pictures that were presented. Therefore, you can still pretend that muslims support terror, and won’t have to admit that your preconception that all muslims are terror supporters is wrong.

Other than that, this makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like saying Americans don’t oppose terrorism unless they specify which “Osama,” out of the scores of people who have the name, they’re talking about when they say they don’t support Osama.
 
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Muslim:
i was taught by my Muslim parents and Muslim teacher that you are not suposed to hate or dislike anybody and its unIslamic.
QUOTE]
beautiful and i dont expect other than that from good people…but am after doctrines : does the quran ask you to love unbelievers? as far as i know, mohammad cursed us in quran and promised us hellfire. thx
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pro_universal:
The only possible reason I can come up with, that you might have for writing this, is that Osama bin laden wasn’t burned in the pictures that were presented. Therefore, you can still pretend that muslims support terror, and won’t have to admit that your preconception that all muslims are terror supporters is wrong.

Other than that, this makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like saying Americans don’t oppose terrorism unless they specify which “Osama,” out of the scores of people who have the name, they’re talking about when they say they don’t support Osama.
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LOL you mean the left-wing media wouldn’t be showing picturs of muslims burning Osama bin Laden(so you know specifically) effigies?.

You have put up a good, but misinformed, debate so far so I know you must have more bra(name removed by moderator)ower to able to come up with an answer like that.

If Muslims can burn whole embassies and flags because of some horrible cartoonists, how come they can’t do they same with an easy to make effigy of someone who supposedly doesn’t stand for Islam?
 
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onesimplemind:
LOL you mean the left-wing media wouldn’t be showing picturs of muslims burning Osama bin Laden(so you know specifically) effigies?.

You have put up a good, but misinformed, debate so far so I know you must have more bra(name removed by moderator)ower to able to come up with an answer like that.

If Muslims can burn whole embassies and flags because of some horrible cartoonists, how come they can’t do they same with an easy to make effigy of someone who supposedly doesn’t stand for Islam?
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Here’s a novel idea: Did it occur to you that maybe the rioters who burned embassies are different individuals from the ones who were carrying the anti-terror signs?
 
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pro_universal:
Here’s a novel idea: Did it occur to you that maybe the rioters who burned embassies are different individuals from the ones who were carrying the anti-terror signs?
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Here is a more novel idea. Show me the bin Laden effigies. Show me where the Islamic world holds Osama bin Laden to at least the same standards as those “horrible” Danish.

Real muslim protests include things that burn. They burn things that represent what is supposedly wrong. Why do they not burn something that visibly represents al queda? There are not very many representations of al queda except for effigies.

If Islam teaches peace, then an obvious murdering, war-provoking, corrupted excuse for a muslim would be burned in effigy all over the place. I am still trying to find one instance.
 
Real muslim protests include things that burn. They burn things that represent what is supposedly wrong. Why do they not burn something that visibly represents al queda? There are not very many representations of al queda except for effigies.
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Wait a second, where’s the proof that the “real muslim protests” are ones that burn things? Where on earth did this proposition come from?

I’ve never heard anyone credibly make the case that if something is a real protest by muslims, it must involve burning. What proof is there for this assertion?

I think this is quite silly. You have proof before you of large groups of muslims protesting terrorism. You’ve already seen excerpts from the authoritative scholars of the religion condemning terrorism. Now you’re arguing that none of that matters unless someone bothers to make a puppet and burn it.

Please tell me you are just saying this to be difficult, and that you are not serious.
 
the problem between islam and non-moslem nations is that there is no separation in islam between state and religion…if any country goes against a muslim country in economy or politics, hell breaks loose and muslims start saying: the kaffir want to destroy islam…as if it is a religious war…i call it phobia.
 
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pro_universal:
Wait a second, where’s the proof that the “real muslim protests” are ones that burn things? Where on earth did this proposition come from?

I’ve never heard anyone credibly make the case that if something is a real protest by muslims, it must involve burning. What proof is there for this assertion?

I think this is quite silly. You have proof before you of large groups of muslims protesting terrorism. You’ve already seen excerpts from the authoritative scholars of the religion condemning terrorism. Now you’re arguing that none of that matters unless someone bothers to make a puppet and burn it.

Please tell me you are just saying this to be difficult, and that you are not serious.
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Stop trying to squirm.

But just to entertain you, muslims anti-terror protests are a show put on by the likes of CAIR, Muslims American Society, Muslims Council of Britian and such. Most of these protests happened in the countries that were attacked (or for nationalist reasons) suggesting that they hate terror and are peaceful or they just want to appease anger and stem the likelyhood of Islamic land being overrun. Taqqiya.

“Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” - Omar Ahmad , co founder of CAIR

I don’t want to see these pathetic excuses for “protests” with people holding candles and putting on a show…
edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/01/09/pakistan.riots/
I want to see this with a representation of al-Queda on fire. I want to see the anger of the Muslim world directed at the terrorists that “distort” Islam. At want to see murdering terrorists held* at least* to the same standard as those “horrible” Danes. Why that is not happening?
 
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inJESUS:
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Muslim:
i was taught by my Muslim parents and Muslim teacher that you are not suposed to hate or dislike anybody and its unIslamic.
QUOTE]
beautiful and i dont expect other than that from good people…but am after doctrines : does the quran ask you to love unbelievers? as far as i know, mohammad cursed us in quran and promised us hellfire. thx
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'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:"
"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. "
“He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement.”
“Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise.”
“And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.”
“Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.”

want more?
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onesimplemind:
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Muslim:
Yea I want to so genuine anger being directed at bin Laden from the muslim world that equals that of the anger given to the Danes.
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You didn’t answer the question: Where’s the proof that only burning effigies are “real muslim protest”?
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thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&c=Article&cid=1139179814480&call_pageid=968332188492

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4686346.stm
scroll through these pics.

cbc.ca/cp/world/060202/w020276.html

Just a few examples of things burning. Burning things shows the real anger at a “wrongdoing” Burning candles is just a show of appeasement.

You are starting to go pretty far into your Islamic apologist mode. I just needed proof for myself and you gave it to me, no wonder you aren’t fooling anyone.

cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/06/ap/world/mainD8FJHLF80.shtml
Hey look muslims are actually apologizing. Thats rare.
 
Just a few examples of things burning. Bruning things shows the real anger at a “wrongdoing” Burning candles is just a show of appeasement.
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You are starting to go pretty far into your Islamic apologist mode. I just needed proof for myself and you gave it to me, no wonder you aren’t fooling anyone.
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Well, I guess I’ve never seen a real anti-abortion protest, because anti-abortion protestors don’t burn copies of Roe v. Wade :).

Your argument here is simply absurd. To say that a protest isn’t a protest unless something is burned has to be the most groundless assertion I’ve seen all month, and the only motivation you could possibly have for it is to discount (to yourself) the meaning of those pictures Muslim posted.

You have proof of muslims protesting terror. If you deny that muslims protest terrorism now, you’re just being wilfully blind.
 
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