While we were sleeping (Islam and Spain)

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Brotherhrolf earlier posted the news story about the Spanish Islamic Board’s attempts to obtain permission to pray in the cathedral of Córdoba once more. It is not the first time they have attempted this, so the Boards’ president Mansur Escudero is lying if he is saying that they were inspired to make the request by Pope Benedict’s visit to the Blue Mosque in Constantinople. If you missed that story, here’s the BBC’s rundown that Brotherhrolf posted:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6213665.stm

Now check out this article from Britain’s “The Independent” newspaper:

news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2125423.ece

Muslims consider the Iberian peninsula–all of the Iberian peninsula, including Portugal and the northern regions that they never successfully controlled-- Al-Andalus, part of the dar al-Islam, or the “house of Islam”. The reconquest of the peninsula by the descendants of the Christians slaughtered and enslaved in the Muslim conquest of the peninsula is a disgrace which calls for revenge. According to Islamic religious beliefs, once a land is conquered by Islamic armies, it belongs to the Muslims forever. If the *kafir *succeed in wresting control of that territory from the ummah, then they must make war on the unbelievers until the territory is regained.

The Muslim invasion of Spain (and the rest of Europe) is occurring once more. Taking advantage of secularism and rampant materialism, they are pressing their advantage, particularly in places like Spain. A few years ago, a new mosque was completed in Granada atop the *Mirador de San Cristóbal *. It looks out over the Alhambra palace on the other side of the valley. The significance of this is that Granada and its magnificent Alhambra are where the Reconquista were finally brought to a successful conclusion by Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand, the Catholic Monarchs. Granada is one of the cities in Spain which currently boasts a large Muslim population, and that population is growing via immigration and birth. The choice of Granada is therefore extremely significant.

And the Socialist party which currently governs in Spain iseems eager to collaborate with the re-Islamization of the Spanish nation. They wished to eliminate Religion as a subject in Spanish schools but were ultimately unable to do so. They had to settle instead for stripping it of academic weight… it now doesn’t count in the calculation of the students’ marks. They also instituted a mandatory “Civics” course to counteract courses in Catholic doctrine and morality. The course defends abortion, contains information about “alternative sexualities” indoctrinates students in the acceptance of homosexual behaviour, equates “gay matrimonies” with heterosexual ones and defends the adoption of children by homosexual couples. All pet projects of the Socialist party, and all under the guise of “promoting tolerance and respect for diversity.” But while attacking the Catholic Church and trying to undermine any influence it might still have in Spanish society, they seem to be doing everything they can facilitate the spread of Islam under the guise of “helping immigrants to integrate into society”.

The Socialist party, which has held power and governed in Andalucia since the beginning of the democracy in 1978, has turned over a large piece of property in Sevilla for the construction of the largest mosque in Europe… in a neighbourhood in which the vast majority of its residents are Christian and who are very vocally opposed to the mosque’s construction. With one breath they argue that public schools should be completely secular and that religious education should be eliminated from them entirely, yet they promote the introduction of Islamic religious instruction for Muslim children.

And some segments of the Catholic population are no less blind. A Catholic publishing company in Spain recently published a religion textbook which explains Islam to children. Incredible. *Of course *Muslim children should have textbooks which instruct them in their religious faith and practises, but a Catholic publishing company has no bloody business helping to spread a faith that is not Christ’s! :mad:

I could go on and on. I’ll just end this overly-long little missive on the Feast of the Epiphany (Praise Jesus Christ, the True Light of all nations and the only Saviour of the world) by saying this: it’s upsetting and infuriating and Spain is not the only place where this is occurring, but we have brought it upon ourselves. We need to be a missionary Church once more. We need prayer, penance and mortification! We need to preach Christ Crucified. We need to be converted ourselves, and then we need to pray and work for the conversion of those who do not know Him! No more shame-faced, embarrassed mumblings in the name of multi-culturalism please, we need to proclaim the Gospel. We even need to use words to do it if necessary.

Now I’m off to confession and Epiphany Mass… Merry Christmas everyone! 👍
 
So sad.

The people of Spain have to be reminded of how Queen Isabel and Ferdinand fought against the Muslims in Granada and were then were able to finance Columbus’ voyage to seek out a new trade route giving us all the New World.

They also need to be reminded that King Phillip II kept liberal Europe from going under. He was fighting England’s Queen Elisabeth’s Protestanism, the Dutch and Belgian and we can see what has happened to Holland; he was fighting the Muslim Turks. The English stole his money that he had borrowed from banks to finance the wars and the Dutch stole his treasures from the New World. King Phillip II was a one-man strong arm against all of Europe.

How quick the people lose their own heritage!

So much of Europe has forgotten its history. The French has forgotten Charlemagne and their good kings yet sadly they revere Voltairre and Enlightenment.The Austrians have forgotten the Hapsburgs.

There are alot of Muslims in the World. India now estimates that there are 173 million Muslims in that country. Indonesia are 200M+ Muslims. This liberal socialism just helps the Muslim cause.
 
So sad.

The people of Spain have to be reminded of how Queen Isabel and Ferdinand fought against the Muslims in Granada and were then were able to finance Columbus’ voyage to seek out a new trade route giving us all the New World.

They also need to be reminded that King Phillip II kept liberal Europe from going under. He was fighting England’s Queen Elisabeth’s Protestanism, the Dutch and Belgian and we can see what has happened to Holland; he was fighting the Muslim Turks. The English stole his money that he had borrowed from banks to finance the wars and the Dutch stole his treasures from the New World. King Phillip II was a one-man strong arm against all of Europe.

How quick the people lose their own heritage!
Indeed. But the problem is that, apart from the evils of materialism and secularism and the threat of Islamic expansionism, there are many in Spain who actively hate and despise their own history (if they know it at all), their heritage and their culture. All that is traditional Spanish culture, as well as all that is Catholic Christianity, is despised, ridiculed and attacked.

The faithful of Spain (please pray very hard for them!!) are besieged on the one side by an aggressive, atheistic secular ideology–one which comes not only from the current Socialist government of their country, but also from the EU government in Brussels. Secular, materialistic, anti-family, anti-life, pro-homosexual and anti-Christian laws and programs flow forth from the EU Parliament in Brussels, and enormous pressure is being brought to bear on any country which tries to resist–witness events in Ireland and Poland as well.

The Muslims are taking advantage of this situation. They aggressively promote an Islamic ideology which every day seeks new ways to expand their influence in society by gaining for themselves the very privileges and “rights” which the government wants to deny the Christian faithful. Islam has been accorded a privileged space in the public square, one which no other religion, philosophy or ideology enjoys. Out of fear, or misguided notions of “tolerance” and “multi-culturalism”, Islam is placed beyond debate, beyond criticism. Any attempt to do so is automatically declared “bigotry”, “intolerance”, “racism” (stupidly, since Islam itself is not a race), “Islamophobia” etc. It is all very discouraging, and though there are some small, hopeful signs that the situation may be changing, one is normally forced to conclude that things look grim indeed. The hopeful part of my brain tells me that things have looked grim before, and Christ will not be mocked. But then the other part tells me there is much work to be done and, frankly, I often wonder if we are at all up to the task.
 
I spent a month in Spain back in the 70s and I am shocked that the Spanish people have forgotten all of the blood that was shed during the Reconquista. The French…I am of French ancestry and my “cousins” are more concerned about where their next cup of coffee is coming from rather than remembering what happened at Tours.

Europe is facing a renewed threat from Islam. The signs are there and, indeed, everyone does seem to be asleep. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
 
I spent a month in Spain back in the 70s and I am shocked that the Spanish people have forgotten all of the blood that was shed during the Reconquista. The French…I am of French ancestry and my “cousins” are more concerned about where their next cup of coffee is coming from rather than remembering what happened at Tours.

Europe is facing a renewed threat from Islam. The signs are there and, indeed, everyone does seem to be asleep. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
It’s the frog boiled scenario. If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it jumps out. But if you place a frog in a pot of water, then slowly turn up the heat, it boils to death.

The Islamic invasion of Europe in the Middle Ages was the frog jumping out of the pot; the current Islamic takeover and the apathetic reaction is the frog being slowly boiled to death.
 
originally posted by Moneo
Indeed. But the problem is that, apart from the evils of materialism and secularism and the threat of Islamic expansionism, there are many in Spain who actively hate and despise their own history (if they know it at all), their heritage and their culture. All that is traditional Spanish culture, as well as all that is Catholic Christianity, is despised, ridiculed and attacked.
They have lost a sense of pride in what they brought forth in the Western culture. If there were no Spain, there would be no America.How can you not love a Queen Isabel, King Ferdinand or King Phillip?

When France fell into liberal thought, it collapsed. They were not fighting for independence but were allowing a liberal force to take over their government. We often see the French Revolution portrayed like the American Revolution but it was not at all the same. Napoleon was a dictator. The people gained nothing. Today in America, we are fighting a similar liberalism in our government but we are more aware of it than the French were.

The bible speaks of Kings and even records many in the scriptures yet the Kings and Queens have been degraded even though many were great leaders.
 
But the problem is not as some would see it. Why are Spainiards increasingly converting to Islam and why are Spanish converts doing a lot of evangelization work in Central America/

Again, Islam has a pull today in Europe that Chritianity - Catholic or protestant - does not seem to have. The growing Spanish conversion to Islam has nothing at all to do with people being secularized. It is the exact opposite.

Why is the Catholic church in Spain failing to hold onto its members as they drift increasingly to Islam should be the question.

Spain and Europe, from our perspective now - the large and growing numbers of conversions and the immigration - supposedly be predominatly Muslim towards the end of this century.

BTW, there is a large conversion of Hispanics in America to Islam. So the issue is bigger than just the Spain situation.

The conversions in Europe, America and South America - and Asia as Thailand is seeing its Budhist majority starting to dwindle some as Islam grows rapidly there are - are occuring depite the terrorism of the past few years.

Something is going on - if nothing else Islam seems to have a truly worldwide appeal now that we have never seen in a major religion before.
 
How can you not love a Queen Isabel, King Ferdinand or King Phillip?
Indeed! She is my favourite historical personality: a formidable woman of extraordinary faith, tremendous vision and limitless energy.

Have you read Dr. Warren Carroll’s Isabel of Spain: The Catholic Queen, published by Christendom Press? If not I enthusiastically recommend it!

And if you are able to read Spanish, I also recommend Luis Suarez’s Los Reyes Católicos. Incredible.
 
orignally posted by Moneo
Have you read Dr. Warren Carroll’s Isabel of Spain: The Catholic Queen, published by Christendom Press?
I haven’t read that book but have read quite abit about the Spanish history.I have read Terese of Avila. How do the people of Spain not know the Spanish Saints?
originally posted by rien
BTW, there is a large conversion of Hispanics in America to Islam. So the issue is bigger than just the Spain situation.
I wasn’t aware of that.What percentage? The fact that they can have up to four wives ought to turn alot of women off.
 
I haven’t read that book but have read quite abit about the Spanish history.I have read Terese of Avila. How do the people of Spain not know the Spanish Saints?

I wasn’t aware of that.What percentage? The fact that they can have up to four wives ought to turn alot of women off.
That comment is gratuitous. The Hispanic converts to Islam in the US are in many cases men turning their lives around. men who never before set foot in church except on Christmas or Easter are now weekly at the mosque for Friday prayer services.

I know, two of my Hispanic friends from high-school who were as wild as you can get - drank and all despite their Catholic faith - are now transfomed essentially since their conversion to Islam. They both only have one wife BTW - but many kids - 6 in one case and 8 in the other.

Be flip, but one day you may awake and find the world is Muslim.
 
I haven’t read that book but have read quite abit about the Spanish history.I have read Terese of Avila. How do the people of Spain not know the Spanish Saints?
They do, and they don’t… Every town and village in Spain has its patron saint with their corresponding local festivals in honour of the saint. All too often, however, the celebrations have become the point in themselves and the locals know little or nothing about the saint who inspired the festival. Think of Pamplona’s famous San Fermín festival here.

The 500th anniversary of the birth of St. Francis Xavier was just celebrated last year in the northern province of Navarra with a year-long jubilee that began and ended on his feast day, 3 December. The celebrations and commemorations were well done and for the most part kept the religious focus right up front, where it belongs.

On the other hand, saints like Teresa of Ávila and John of the Cross are famous, but not widely read. Let’s face it, they’re not easy reads! :o

One other problem I have not really dwelt upon but which also helps to explain in part the abandonment of Spain’s Catholic heritage is the 40 years of enforced “official Catholicism” on the part of the Franco goverment. Many people who lived under his rule felt oppressed by the heavy-handed state-endorsed Catholicism and started throwing it off as soon as he died in the rush to play catch up with the rest of materialistic Europe. This reaction is understandable perhaps, but a shame nonetheless, because the pendulum swung to the other extreme and subsequent generations have been raised with virtually no religious formation at all! The baby got thrown out with the bathwater.
 
o
rignally posted by rien
Be flip, but one day you may awake and find the world is Muslim.
One of my daughters was married to a Muslim man for a very short time. These two grandchildren have fair skin - one with light blue eyes and the other with green eyes.

We would often discuss his religion. Granted that most Muslims have only one wife but he told me that they was allowed to have up to four wives not at the same time as I understood it. They see this along the line of Abraham because Abraham took a concubine. It is a very different religion.

Like the Mormon faith, having more than one wife is not anything I want to deal with . I don’t care if they say most have one wife, it is a part of their faith belief system and not acceptable.
 
o

One of my daughters was married to a Muslim man for a very short time. These two grandchildren have fair skin - one with light blue eyes and the other with green eyes.

We would often discuss his religion. Granted that most Muslims have only one wife but he told me that they was allowed to have up to four wives not at the same time as I understood it. They see this along the line of Abraham because Abraham took a concubine. It is a very different religion.

Like the Mormon faith, having more than one wife is not anything I want to deal with . I don’t care if they say most have one wife, it is a part of their faith belief system and not acceptable.
I hope your daughter is teaching them their half-Muslim heritage. They need to make an educated and honest choice on their faith and it is not, or should be not, Christianity by defaulk. If you deny them that then you are not being honest with them.
 
orignally posted by rien
I hope your daughter is teaching them their half-Muslim heritage. They need to make an educated and honest choice on their faith and it is not, or should be not, Christianity by defaulk.
I was going to delete and not pursue it but no they are not going to be learning the Muslim faith.

There is no argument in what my daughter’s faith was and is - a Catholic -and what all her children will be brought up as.
 
I was going to delete and not pursue it but no they are not going to be learning the Muslim faith.

There is no argument in what my daughter’s faith was and is - a Catholic -and what all her children will be brought up as.
That is so sad and dishonest IMO. But it is your family and you will do as you will.

My parents were Catholic and Protestant. My Protestant grandparents wanted my dad to tell us kids nothing of Catholcisim. Would that have been any more right than your daughter denying her children their rich Muslim heritage?
 
originally posted by rien
That is so sad and dishonest IMO. But it is your family and you will do as you will.
Why is this sad? I think they can be proud of who they are without learning the Muslim faith. They have their long heritage to be proud of and don’t need a to learn a religion that is totally false. I would not teach them Protestanism, Hinduism, Buddism or any religion that I didn’t believe in.
 
Why is this sad? I think they can be proud of who they are without learning the Muslim faith. They have their long heritage to be proud of and don’t need a to learn a religion that is totally false. I would not teach them Protestanism, Hinduism, Buddism or any religion that I didn’t believe in.
My dad thinks Catholocism is totally false, should my mother have not instructed us in it?

You are on the wrong side of history - your granchildren will grow up in an America where Islam will perhaps be the single largest faith. To not connect them to that - well I disagree with you as much as I did with my Protestant grandparents. Islam could be the truth - I am not sure anymore.
 
originally posted by rien
your granchildren will grow up in an America where Islam will perhaps be the single largest faith. To not connect them to that - well I disagree with you as much as I did with my Protestant grandparents. Islam could be the truth - I am not sure anymore.
I pray that Islam will never be a large religion in America. Mohammed is a phony. The man’s life speaks for itself.

Christ has always been the answer. Granted it has been a major struggle for many of the European Catholic people but to give up on that struggle after two thousand years of struggle would be a major defeat to mankind. God is calling us all to be patient and to trust.

As Moneo said, we need prayers, penance and mortification.
 
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