While we were sleeping (Islam and Spain)

[rien]

I pray that Islam will never be a large religion in America. Mohammed is a phony. The man’s life speaks for itself.

Christ has always been the answer. Granted it has been a major struggle for many of the European Catholic people but to give up on that struggle after two thousand years of struggle would be a major defeat to mankind. God is calling us all to be patient and to trust.

As Moneo said, we need prayers, penance and mortification.

How do you know Mohammed is a phoney? Have you read the Koran or attended an Islamic inquiry group not polluted by Catholic or Christian prejudice?

You need to read what Muslims - espicailly former Christians who have converted to Islam have to say.

What Catholic sources or Christian sources tell you about Islam is false to a large degree. Be honest and not afraid and go and read Muslim sourcers about their faith.

That is waht I was told to do when I was a Protestant and looking into Catholicsm - read Catholic sources. What is good for the goose so to speak.

As my faith journey is now taking me past Catholicsim too I am totally embracing Islamic sources themselves. If you do not then you are no more getting a true picture than I was as a Protestant reading Lindsay or Bottener.

 

[Moneo]

How do you know Mohammed is a phoney? Have you read the Koran or attended an Islamic inquiry group not polluted by Catholic or Christian prejudice?

You need to read what Muslims - espicailly former Christians who have converted to Islam have to say.

What Catholic sources or Christian sources tell you about Islam is false to a large degree. Be honest and not afraid and go and read Muslim sourcers about their faith.

Indeed I have read what Mohammed had to say. As I type, I have on the desk beside me a copy of the Koran, albeit in Spanish–El Sagrado Coran,copyright 1997 Ediciones Obelisco, Barcelona.

And after much reading, I must agree with gam197… Mohammed was a false prophet.

I applaud your appeal for intellectual freedom and free enquiry into the matter of Truth. One of the most fundamental human freedoms is the freedom of each individual to search for the answer to the question “What is Truth?” Without that freedom, we can never come to a knowledge of the Truth and salvation. But do consider the possibility that you’ve got it right there under your nose and have just lost the ability to see it.

One of the biggest obstacles to dialogue with Muslims is the continual insistence that any statement about Islamic belief which is unfavourable or in the least bit critical is the result of “prejudice”, “bigotry”, “Islamophobia” etc. To be honest, it gets tiring because it is childish, anti-intellectual and really sounds more and more like the defense of a group of people who don’t actually have any arguments to offer.

I have no problem whatsoever with what you say about reading Islamic sources, and indeed have done so and will continue to do so–the Hadith, Reliance of the Traveller etc. Nor do I have a problem with reading the testimonies of Islamic converts from Christianity. Now, perhaps you should also make sure that as you continue your search “past Catholicism”, that you take the time to read the testimonies of Muslims converted to Christianity and what they have to say about why they abandoned Islam as well.

An excellent place to start might be the book Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics. 100 Questions and Answers by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer. It’s published by Ascension Press.

Daniel Ali is an Iraqi who converted to Christianity, first to Protestantism and then later to Catholicism, and is the founder of the Christian-Islamic Forum. He also co-hosted the
video series Islam and Christianity with Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN. Have you heard of him? Are you interested in what insights he may be able to offer you on the question? His story can be found here.

In fact, I strongly recommend that you and other “cradle-Catholics” read all of the conversion testimonies on the Coming Home International site. It is my experience that cradle Catholics generally benefit greatly from seeing the Faith through the eyes of converts.

In the spirit of free enquiry and human freedom that was mentioned above, one of the most troubling aspects of Islam for me is precisely the disregard for and lack of that freedom in the Islamic world. Those who convert to Christianity or leave Islam for any other religion are apostates deserving of death.

But this conversation is not really the point of the thread I started, and perhaps we should start another thread or take this to an existing one.

In any case, God bless and keep you. I will certainly pray for you and your search.

 

[Moneo]

gam197:

And since you mentioned Spanish saints in a post above, 6 January is the feast of a Spanish saint, St. Raymond of Peñafort, who, if you read this brief summary of his life, is quite relevant to today’s thread!

 

[gam197]

rien,

No I have not read the Koran but I have read many books of many different religions just to understand them. According to wikipedia, Mohammad had 11 wives. How does one follow a man that has had 11 wives. If this had been thousands of
years before Christ, I would consider that he could have been a prophet, but not after Christ.

Moneo,
I read the summary on , St. Raymond of Peñafort, and he was quite a man.

I am surprised that you thought Teresa of Avila was difficult to read. I believe it was “Her Way of Perfection” that I read. She has alot to teach us.

I just read something about her speaking with another and discussing death and Teresa saying something like "OK but we are tired, can we get a night’s sleep?

I also just read alittle on Franco and how he saved Spain from Communism. Spain has had many difficulties in the past and has fought just about everything and won. I hope Spain doesn’t lose faith.

All of Europe seems to be under attack. It started with Erasmas and Martin Luther; it became so liberal and disguised it by calling it progressive.

 

[francesco920]

EVERYONE, READ THIS

It’s long, I know, but it’s really, really good.

Here’s a tiny bit:

It may also be worthwhile to discuss the nature of Mohammad’s revelation (Koran). As even Muslims seem to generally acknowledge, Muhammad himself believed that these “revelations” were coming from the Devil in the beginning. It was only after being persuaded by his wife, Khadija, that he came to finally believe God was speaking to him through the Archangel Gabriel. Christians and Jews would be hard-pressed to think of anyone who wrote Old Testament or New Testament scripture who couldn’t tell whether it was God or the devil talking to him.

 

[Adamma]

Read the book ‘Inside Islam’ (newer book). Myself I do not see any redeeming qualities within Islam (except they may donate and help their brotherns-only). The rest is non-tolerance, arrogance, illogical, a prophet with no miracles and was in effect the Mr. Haney of his day (selling various whatevers), the Mohammed a decendant coming from Ishmael (Abrahams lineage-probably cheap shot at justifying decent roots, which otherwise probably do not exist).
Things within the Koran justify their lying to us infidels and killing us, and rewarding the killers with the “infamous” Virgin Rewards Program (I coined that phrase). Perhaps this does get new recruits with the I.Q. of some like the ‘shoe bomber’ types. I would like to know why so many (I will call them idiots), wish to sign up and join such a ridiculous religion???
Can anybody list anything good and redeeming about Islam? Larry Bird has joined Islam too, is it some kind of being cool to be different club? Well I am going to have to leave and practice my kneeling for when the jihadies find me and wish to remove my head. Hey, the first cut is the deepest and give me an extra whack for Alah and Mohammed, what wonderful role models. If I am an “infidel” I want to do a good job at it, maybe my reward is way better than the Virgin Rewards Program. I do think desert living and lying around Camels can effect the gene pool, given a few hundred years. See any scholars amongest them.