C
CradleRC58
Guest
Uh huh
White House directs federal agencies to cancel race-related training sessions it calls ‘un-American propaganda’
- Status
L
Lee3
Guest
@FrankFletcher
I don’t think it’s should become a situation of ignoring race based disparities, but these blanket statements and “woke” terminologies and mindsets such as “white privilege” and “cultural appropriation” etc just cause division, flair tensions, and ironically, are based on ignorance, prejudice, and cultural ignorance.
The simplistic mindset of “black vs white” as is held by these Sjw types of people in USA is not shared by much of the rest of the world.
To put it plainly, white is not one thing. There are #50 shades of white with vastly different cultures & experiences.
They ignore the reality that white people from Italy, Croatia, Russia, Greece, Albania etc have also many times faced racism in the western countries they have emigrated to, and have been overlooked for jobs based on their surnames, or have felt pressure to “Anglo saxonise” their names and personalities to fit in to a western culture workplace etc…
Or told to “go back to their own country” etc…
I know people from poor European countries who grew up with no toilet paper and wiping themselves with leaves. Believe me- not all white people are privileged.
So these SJW need to at least start making some distinctions between privileged Anglo Saxon whites, vs underprivileged other whites.
Even amongst Anglo Saxon whites, we can see that some of them living in poverty, whether it’s the “red necks” of USA, or in Australia etc…
So, while race based disparities do exist, they are not exclusive to race or exclusive to brown/black people.
It’s possible to stand against race disparities from a Christian/ good person standpoint without falling gullible to Sjw divisive (ironically even fascist) ideologies.
There’s many ways to help such as buying from black businesses, donating to causes that support black kids going to college or starting businesses, not financially supporting large corporations that are full of “fat cat Anglo Saxon wealthy executives” etc…
I don’t think it’s should become a situation of ignoring race based disparities, but these blanket statements and “woke” terminologies and mindsets such as “white privilege” and “cultural appropriation” etc just cause division, flair tensions, and ironically, are based on ignorance, prejudice, and cultural ignorance.
The simplistic mindset of “black vs white” as is held by these Sjw types of people in USA is not shared by much of the rest of the world.
To put it plainly, white is not one thing. There are #50 shades of white with vastly different cultures & experiences.
They ignore the reality that white people from Italy, Croatia, Russia, Greece, Albania etc have also many times faced racism in the western countries they have emigrated to, and have been overlooked for jobs based on their surnames, or have felt pressure to “Anglo saxonise” their names and personalities to fit in to a western culture workplace etc…
Or told to “go back to their own country” etc…
I know people from poor European countries who grew up with no toilet paper and wiping themselves with leaves. Believe me- not all white people are privileged.
So these SJW need to at least start making some distinctions between privileged Anglo Saxon whites, vs underprivileged other whites.
Even amongst Anglo Saxon whites, we can see that some of them living in poverty, whether it’s the “red necks” of USA, or in Australia etc…
So, while race based disparities do exist, they are not exclusive to race or exclusive to brown/black people.
It’s possible to stand against race disparities from a Christian/ good person standpoint without falling gullible to Sjw divisive (ironically even fascist) ideologies.
There’s many ways to help such as buying from black businesses, donating to causes that support black kids going to college or starting businesses, not financially supporting large corporations that are full of “fat cat Anglo Saxon wealthy executives” etc…
Last edited:
L
Lee3
Guest
And as for profiling, no one wants to talk about it of course because it’s a controversial subject, and racism is awful and everyone wants to think of themselves as not being racist but consider this situation:
You are a taxi driver from an Indian background. A loving accepting family man. There has been a spade of recent violent bashing’s and robbings of taxi drivers from members of a certain ethnicity in the area you drive.
You are on your evening shift and get flagged down by 4 men of that ethnicity who give off a bad vibe.
Let’s put ourselves in his shoes- what does he do?
If he doesn’t stop, is he a racist, a profiler and is it fair that he be labelled as one?
Or should he stop, and risk his own safety, even potentially his life, so to not be racist?
See IMO, profiling is not always “black and white” (excuse the pun).
Of course, in a shop situation where the worst that could happen is thieving I don’t think anyone should be profiled/followed around.
You are a taxi driver from an Indian background. A loving accepting family man. There has been a spade of recent violent bashing’s and robbings of taxi drivers from members of a certain ethnicity in the area you drive.
You are on your evening shift and get flagged down by 4 men of that ethnicity who give off a bad vibe.
Let’s put ourselves in his shoes- what does he do?
If he doesn’t stop, is he a racist, a profiler and is it fair that he be labelled as one?
Or should he stop, and risk his own safety, even potentially his life, so to not be racist?
See IMO, profiling is not always “black and white” (excuse the pun).
Of course, in a shop situation where the worst that could happen is thieving I don’t think anyone should be profiled/followed around.
L
Lee3
Guest
Anti racism programmes should go ahead, but any that are taught in a way that instead of building bridges and creating harmony, rather cause greater tensions and divisions plus victim mentality (different from objective victim) need to be reworked.
As for this divisive nonsense terms of “privilege”, it instead should be changed to the simple old Christian values of “its the responsibility of the haves to help the have nots.”
As for this divisive nonsense terms of “privilege”, it instead should be changed to the simple old Christian values of “its the responsibility of the haves to help the have nots.”
Last edited:
Yes, it goes, for it to be systemic. It must be part of the system, not the actions of those stepping outside the codified system.
Systemic racism no longer exists in the United States.
I’ve explained that today, economic opportunities are open to all Americans. There have been times in our past when that wasn’t the case.
R
Rockoh22
Guest
Welfare.
The welfare system traps you in. Why? If you show the slightest sign of economic improvement, you are taken out of it.
SO take a person, who receives welfare, wants to improve his lifestyle, try to get a job, looses welfare, looses the job, boom. Instant economic crash. It is not like many who receive welfare have the cash to survive a few weeks with out income.
That and add the many stipulations. Why get married? A single person is better suited for welfare. So, take females. Instead of marrying a man, they marry the welfare system. If they have kids, welfare gives them more. So single mother homes is better for welfare.
Welfare enslaves people to poverty. Why work if you get free money?
Which kind of “cultural inclusion“?
Lived. Past tense. It hasn’t happened in decades.
Systemic racism is illegal today in America.
Last edited:
H
Horton
Guest
The irony here is Trump, who has been in office just shy of four years, is somehow to blame for your “systemic racism”. Yet these cities where it is the worst have been run by Democratic leadership for years or even decades.
Democrats have to look at this and really discern where racism is maintained. How many mayors of these cities have really tried to fix the situations? How many governors have tried? How many US Representatives or Senators have really worked to improve conditions in these neighborhoods? You really must take off the anti Trump hat for a moment and ask what has Democratic leadership done for this problem?
The neighborhoods are not better, crime is still bad. The schools are not better (and Biden is saying he does not want school choice which is a big advantage for kids in these neighborhoods), the public housing is not better, nothing at all is better. For many years the Democratic solution was to just throw money at it in the way of more dependency programs. Just think how much better it would have been had that money been spent on opportunity programs? Probably billions of dollars spent keeping people in poverty and dependence, but those billons spent on programs to give people in these areas a hand up & out, talk about ending your systemic racism.
Please look at this without the anti-Trump hat on. Because in all reality, the issue of what is going on in these cities has very little to do with him. I’m asking you to consider the facts. These cities have long standing problems in inner city neighborhoods and these cities have been run by Democratic leadership for years or decades. Democrats need to look at that leadership for the cause of systemic racism.
Democrats have to look at this and really discern where racism is maintained. How many mayors of these cities have really tried to fix the situations? How many governors have tried? How many US Representatives or Senators have really worked to improve conditions in these neighborhoods? You really must take off the anti Trump hat for a moment and ask what has Democratic leadership done for this problem?
The neighborhoods are not better, crime is still bad. The schools are not better (and Biden is saying he does not want school choice which is a big advantage for kids in these neighborhoods), the public housing is not better, nothing at all is better. For many years the Democratic solution was to just throw money at it in the way of more dependency programs. Just think how much better it would have been had that money been spent on opportunity programs? Probably billions of dollars spent keeping people in poverty and dependence, but those billons spent on programs to give people in these areas a hand up & out, talk about ending your systemic racism.
Please look at this without the anti-Trump hat on. Because in all reality, the issue of what is going on in these cities has very little to do with him. I’m asking you to consider the facts. These cities have long standing problems in inner city neighborhoods and these cities have been run by Democratic leadership for years or decades. Democrats need to look at that leadership for the cause of systemic racism.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I made no claim about who is to blame for systemic racism. I think that although Trump may have done nothing to fix the problem, it is way beyond his power to have caused the problem, which goes back to before he was even born. So we are not going to shift this to a discussion of who is to blame. It is enough to recognize that racism exists. And if you need any more evidence, there is the draft report from the Department of Homeland Security that rates the threat of White Supremacy terrorism above foreign terror groups this year.
DHS Names White Supremacy As Greatest Terrorist Threat
A new, draft report from the Department of Homeland Security shows that domestic terrorism, specifically white supremacy, poses the greatest terrorist threat to the U.S.
www.audacy.com
Drafts of a DHS report call white supremacists the 'most persistent and lethal' terror threat in the US: report | Business Insider India
Politico reported the drafts warned white supremacist extremists pose a grave threat to the US and could exploit "social grievances" for violence.
H
Horton
Guest
And you completely ignored the rest of my post. Somehow like you want to shift responsibility from the real problem to a whole different issue.
So please discuss the real issue. Who has been responsible for the continuation of racism in America? Who has had the most control over the cities where minorities have the least opportunities.
Last edited:
A
Annie
Guest
The fact that a small number of white supremacists exist does not make our entire nation white supremacist.
2
27lw
Guest
No, the protestors are not saying that all whites are white supremacists. It’s the training about “white fragility” that calls all whites “white supremacists”.Annie:
Well, now this is not quite what the protesters are saying.
That’s why I said that the training programs that do that are not very effective. So I agree.
So in effect it sounds like you agree with Trump in the original post.
That isn’t true. The very word ‘systemic’ indicates a chronic, long term condition.
You don’t understand the concept called ‘systemic’. It extends back to the arrival of African slaves and the fundamentals of segregation and such.
This thread is asking the question around why the White House is directing the cancellation of race related training?
Last edited:
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That’s because the rest of your post was in support of the idea that Trump is not to blame for racism, but as I said in my response, I am not talking about who is to blame. The thread is about systemic racism and whether it exists. I’m sticking to that subject and not getting sidetracked into a discussion of who is most racist or who is responsible for racism.
Please read the title of the thread, and see that the real issue is the cancelling of race-related training. For 70 posts or so the discussion has been about the degree to which such training sessions are needed or not needed. In other words, it is about how much racism there is. It is not about who is to blame for it. That was never part of the original post.
Not the entire nation. No one is saying that. But the power of white supremacists is enough to prompt the Department of Homeland Security to consider them a bigger terrorist threat than Al Qaeda or ISIS.
As far as the ineffectiveness of the existing training sessions, I do agree with Trump on that point. However I also think racism is still problem. I’m not sure where Trump stands on that question.
P
pnewton
Guest
I see where the difference is. It is one of definition. You see the system in systemic as being only the legal system. In that, you are right. We have pretty much eliminated racism from the legal system. However, some people use the word in a broader sense, like the education system, the economic system, etc.
Even in education and economy, discrimination is illegal, though it could be argued that some universities’ affirmative action practices could be viewed that way.
There is no doubt that there are people who are racist. Some may even influence how their workplace operates, but that is not systemic. It is individual, and while this, too, needs to be called out, the political charge of systemic racism is false.
Last edited:
2
27lw
Guest
I think this is the point where a lot of people might throw out “you have to prove causation v. correlation” etc.JonNC:
I see where the difference is. It is one of definition. You see the system in systemic as being only the legal system. In that, you are right. We have pretty much eliminated racism from the legal system. However, some people use the word in a broader sense, like the education system, the economic system, etc.
Not every process in a system can be legislated, for example the way the jury exonerated every one of the police in Rodney Kings case. A law can’t demand that jurors vote a certain way. In retrospect, the history of jury decisions is sharply inclined to be harsh and unforgiving against a black person and light and forgiving toward white defendants. That fact has formed the basis of abolition of the death penalty in western countries. It is a systemic problem.
- Status