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ComputerGeek25
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Better yet, the overwhelming majority of Americans, even if they are pro-choice, want more restrictions on abortions.
I have met pro-choice Republicansm, but most of them would like to see severe restrictions.
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I have met pro-choice Republicansm, but most of them would like to see severe restrictions.
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gnjsdad
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Which platform has been quite ignored (except around election time) by Republican officeholders for many years.
Tell you what. I’ll be more than willing to change my tune if the Republican Party begins giving the effort to make abortion illegal that it gave to bombing foreign countries (especially Iraq), torturing terror suspects, dismantling social safety nets, spreading its brand of corporatist capitalism world wide, or whatever else becomes “more important” at the moment. To the degree that the pro life movement subordinates itself to these other Republican agenda items, to the extent that the pro life movement becomes just another Republican party interest group, it makes it that much harder for the pro life movement to attract others who do not favor these policies.
This could not have been done without Democratic support, BTW. Many Democrats oppose late term abortion.
For that, they do deserve some credit. But, to be honest, it’s really just a half-measure. Even if they are successful, which so far they haven’t been, it will only mean that PP would be denied federal funding. PP would still be very much in business. I would like to see the Republicans go much further. I long for a country where association with Planned Parenthood conveys the same social standing as association with the KKK or the Nazi Party. This requires a change in the culture, and I’m afraid affiliation with a political party is woefully inadequate for the task. Republicans and Democrats (I’m talking about citizens, not politicians) of like mind need to come together to bring about a change in the culture.
When I said the pro life movement has been ineffective, I meant insofar as its national groups have been affiliated with the national Republican party.
I also agree with much of what you have said here. The public’s attitude has changed over time, not so much due to the Republicans as to vastly improved medical technology (much-improved ultrasounds) and diffusion through the culture of disgust with the aftereffects of the abortion/contraceptive mentality. I can seen that young people ARE more pro life today because they’ve had to live through the ravages of the contraceptive mentailty.
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scipio337
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So, by your logic, Democrats are due recognition for supporting the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, but Republicans single-handedly authorized the use of military force in Iraq?
Who vetoed similar bills to PBAB in 1995 and 1997? Would you like me to list the roll call for the respective legislation?
Its called cognitive dissonance, gnj.
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_Abyssinia
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Can you name any truly pro life Democrats? You need to look at what the Bishops and Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul have said about voting.As if there are NO Republican legislators who support abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and contraception.
This is, or ought to be, so far from a partisan concern, it’s not funny. The fact that it is being made a partisan issue shows just how ineffectual the pro life movement in America is.
Pro life advocacy groups appear satisfied with Republican lip service.
At the same time, these same groups are so far tied to the Republican party, with its morally problematic economic agenda, that their chances for outreach to pro life Democratic voters are severely limited.
The obvious way to sway the Democratic party away from its pro abortion stance (which I assume is what everyone here REALLY wants) is not to stridently accuse its leaders as “baby killers” (really effective rhetoric) or to deride voters who vote Democrat as somehow morally lacking or “mythical” (“there’s no such thing as a pro life Democrat” we are told.) but to strategically move away from the Republican party and the morally problematic aspects of its agenda, and to become a non-partisan group or voting bloc whose votes should be up for grabs each and every election.
If there’s one thing the past 38 years have made abundantly clear, it’s that both major political parties have come to terms with abortion on demand. It’s something, alas, that seems here to stay. The evil has become too embedded in the culture for politics to make a difference.
In Apostolic Exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis Pope Benedict gave an adomition, he spoke of ‘‘non negotiable’’ values to be of central concern to a Christian in politics: ‘‘respect for human life, its defence from conception to natural death, the family built upon marriage between a man and a woman, the freedom to educate one’s children and the promotion of the common good in all its forms.’’
Now apart from the education comment, which I think the Republican party and the Democrat have a similar view on, every other issue Pope Benedict lists the Democrat party is against the Catholic Church’s teaching on.
The Republican party has not accepted abortion on demand, many pro life bills have been passed this year, and a number of Planned Parenthood’s have closed or joined other clinics because of a cut in funding. Republican sponsored bills have been passed, that include ultrasound mandates, increased regulation of abortion clinics, longer waiting periods etc.
It is not lip service when an estimated 600 pro life bills have been proposed this year.
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_Abyssinia
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Your leaving out the fact that the Democrat party has approved billions in funding for the Afghanistan War. During his campaign in 2007/08 Obama said he was close Guantamino, it is still open.
Pope Benedict in 2004 letter to Catholic Bishops on politicians and communion:
“While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment,” he said. “There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia,” he added.
According to Pope Benedict, Catholics can have a diversity of opinion on war, but not on abortion.
If every Christian voted according to their faith abortion would not be legal. And party does matter, if you have a pro life President they elect pro life supreme court judges, roe vs wade can be repealed.
What groups?
The Public’s changing attitude to abortion is a good thing, but it is not the public that passes legislation. It is Republicans who are passing pro life bills, with very little support from Democrats, in fact Center for Reproductive Rights, a pro choice organization has said 600 pro life bills have been proposed so far this year:
christianpost.com/news/600-pro-life-bills-proposed-in-2011-says-pro-choice-group-60261/
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LisaA
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gnjsdad such a school of Red Herrings I’ve not seen since last time I visited the local aquarium. You have expressed a litany of opinions, Democrat talking points, bumper sticker slogans, none of which have a thing to do with this thread and the issue of Obama and his administration’s overt and covert support for abortion.
State and national level Republicans have done the following:
Proposed legislation restricting abortion, requiring ultrasound prior to abortion, requiring abortion providers to also provide information on pregnancy support, requiring parental notification, fetal pain legislation, personhood at conception, etc. Nominated pro-life judges and Justices and worked to block abortion supporting judges or Justices. Sometimes the legislation or the nomination is blocked but to say that they have done “nothing” is utterly ridiculous.
They might oppose it in private but they don’t vote that way.
You are quite wrong about PP staying in business without its abortion funding, much of which comes from the government. Take a look at their financial statements and look at the way they fight tooth and nail whenever this funding is threatened. Federal support and the support of Democrat politicians is essential to the existence of PP. You can find this financial information at *********.
Agree that medical technology has been a huge help but tell me gnjsdad, when Republicans propose legislation to require abortion seekers to view and ultrasound of their unborn baby, who fights it? Democrats. When science itself provides evidence that abortion can increase the likelihood of breast cancer and that women often suffer both mental and physical damage after abortion, who tries to squelch the information? Democrats. When a Republican AG finds that PP hid records of underage girls receiving abortions, who destroyed those records? Democrats. Now tell me that Republicans are not the party of abortion foes. The abortion lobby is very very powerful. Kathleen Sebelius is now our HHS for which we should truly be afraid. Along with her apparent complicity in hiding the PP illegalities, she kept George Tiller in business. It wasn’t a coincidence that he located his abortuary in her state.
If Dems would simply stand down and let technology and science (one of the left’s gods) provide complete information on fetal development, fetal pain, options and support for pregnancy, many abortions would be prevented. But at every turn they try to stop both public and private pro life organizations and clinics. I truly believe the Dems have sold their collective soul and pray their hearts will be softened.
Lisa A
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iamrefreshed
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Catholics who vote Democrat play Mental Twister to justify their votes.
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Swiss_Guy
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Unless the Republican is pro-choice and what not and the Democrat is more pro-life. But how often does that happen?
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TheTrueCentrist
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Give me an action by either party that has meaningfully affected the overall abortion rate in the past 20 years. I don’t believe any single example can be cited.
guttmacher.org/graphics/factsheets/2011/01/10/IB-induced-abortion-c1.gif
The issue I see is that conservatives believe that if they simply make it illegal, they can wash their hands of the issue. They will have upheld their principals. It doesn’t matter if the abortion rate is unaffected, they have done the right thing. I believe the goal should not be simply making abortion illegal, but an actual decrease in the abortion rate.
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estesbob
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The recision of the Mexico City Policy by Obama on his third day in office
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_Abyssinia
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Abortion went down 8% between 2000 to 2005. 1.2 million abortions were performed in 2005, down 25% from 1990. One in three pregnant women had an abortion in the 1980s, by 2005 closer to one in five. Even Planned Parenthood research arm Guttmacher Institute admits this:
guttmacher.org/media/nr/2008/01/17/index.html
Abortion did decline under the last Republican president.
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Ridgerunner
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Are you saying abortions did not increase after Roe? I see that you did not provide stats prior to 1973. Since abortion on demand has been legal since 1973, you’re really asking the impossible here. “Show me what Republicans did that were impossible to do.” is really what you’re asking for someone to do. The difference legalization made can only be known with pre-1973 information since it has been legal ever since then.
One thing is for sure. The abortion rate per capita will decline as the population in the childbearing years declines. So, since the childbearing age population is almost certain to decline, to some degree due to abortion on demand for these nearly 40 years, abortion itself will reduce abortions, both in absolute numbers and per capita.
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LisaA
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Your post makes no sense. If something goes from legal to illegal, I would venture to say in virtually all cases that the rate would decrease and quite substantially. If it were legal to break into a jewelry store and steal some bling, don’t you think there would be more theft? How about speeding or drugs or selling alcohol to minors? The legal system acts as a deterrant.
Were Roe overturned, things would probably return to the pre-Roe days where certain states allowed abortion (my state of Oregon was one of them) and others did not. Hopefully education would reduce abortions further (look at smoking rates for example). That abortion is so easy to obtain, relatively inexpensive, and with the reality of this horror so sanitized by the abortion clinic workers (read Unplanned for a look into that world of lies) it’s no surprise that after Roe took place the rates increased dramatically. Thankfully things are turning the other way and making abortion less accessable through education and the law would cause an even greater decrease.
Lisa A
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iamrefreshed
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See? Mental Twister.
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TheTrueCentrist
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Explain to me why having a republican president reduced the abortion rate. I would venture to say that the birth control pill had more to do with the decline in abortions than either political party.
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TheTrueCentrist
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The US has a higher rate of hard drug use than Portugal, where drug use is not a criminal offense. Therefore, simply outlawing a practice does not reduce the rate of occurrence.
cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtml
scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization
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TheTrueCentrist
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Roe V Wade corresponded to the development of abortions that were safer than the old “back alley” procedures. The increase was likely due to more women viewing abortion as a safe option rather than the court’s decision itself.
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estesbob
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Nonsense In the years after abotion was imposed on the country the number of abortions in the US increased from 400,000 a year to 1.6 million
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Orogeny
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How many abortions were committed prior to the legalization of the birth control pill versus how many abortions were committed after.
Peace
Tim
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LisaA
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A total canard. Please research the facts regarding the supposed epidemic of women dying due to “back alley abortions.” A myth. Aside from that before Roe, there were a number of states where abortion was perfectly legal, including mine (Oregon land of assisted suicide as well).
BTW birth control pills were available long before Roe. The irony is that even WITH effective birth control, many women still became pregnant. The sad truth is that BECAUSE abortion is legal, easy to obtain and government supported, it is used as birth control. Look at the statistics of the same woman receiving multiple abortions.
I think not only did Roe make abortion legal, it made it more socially acceptable. Don’t underestimate the power of socialization. If something is the law of the land, people who do not have a strong conscience about life matters can calm that little voice in their head by saying well if it’s legal it must be ok. Thankfully as society learns more about the horror of this procedure and as science gives us a better view of the baby in the womb, it is becoming less socially acceptable to have abortions. I hope it becomes as socially unacceptable as racism. Even if we can’t change the laws we CAN change minds!
Lisa
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