Who are the deserving poor?

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emily47017

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the “how should health care work” thread has evolved into a debate about who among the poor is deserving of our help. it seems like that ought to be its own thread, so here we go!

who deserves assistance from the community, either through government or charities?

single mothers?
minimum wage workers?
minimum wage workers with large families? (it’s also been proposed that these folks don’t exist)
disabled?
elderly?
drunks?
gamblers?
mentally ill?
and what about the children of all these folks?

and what kind of assistance do they deserve?

cash?
food?
health care?
child care?
housing?
job training?
education?

as for myself, i like dorothy day’s quote: “I firmly believe that our salvation depends on the poor.”

discuss! 👍
 
Since many of the poor in the USA are children, I would like to start there.

Every child deserves a stable loving two parent home. That child deserves parents who will provide necessary items for the child, like food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and education before spending on luxury items for themselves. Some of those luxury items would include alcohol, tobacco, jewelry other than a simple wedding ring, tattoos, custom rims for the car, lottery tickets, etc. I hope I don’t need to mention obviously illegal items.

Solid Christian marriages are remarkable for what they can accomplish in terms of raising children, almost as if a loving God designed it that way. Oh wait, He did design it that way. 🙂

When there are good reasons, or even bad reasons, why the parents cannot provide for their children, the responibility radiates out from the family model. Grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc are the first line of help. Next comes neighbors and the church, and other voluntary organizations. Last in line is government, local, state, and federal in that order.

I hope that isn’t too rigid for you, but it just happens to be the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources. I believe it is also best for the children. I did not think it up myself. Saint Paul did that almost 2000 years ago.
 
emily47017 said:
[minimum wage workers with large families? (it’s also been proposed that these folks don’t exist
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Good thread! I just have to comment on the above quote. It cracks me up to hear, on a Catholic board no less, that minimum wage workers with large families are irresponsible (or don’t exist)! So, do the Catholics who feel that way believe that a low-wage earner isn’t supposed to get married? Obviously, they aren’t supposed to practice abc, and you cannot be married int he Church if you don’t plan to have children, so where does that leave them?
[/quote]
 
It does not crack me up, in the way you mean-
It does however remind me of how broken some of us can be at times.

I have not seen the health care thread or the posts there yet, but I really ought to see it.

Catholics should not do anything less than the message Jesus sent to us.

We do know what that was, I hope.
boppaid said:
Good thread! I just have to comment on the above quote. It cracks me up to hear, on a Catholic board no less, that minimum wage workers with large families are irresponsible (or don’t exist)! So, do the Catholics who feel that way believe that a low-wage earner isn’t supposed to get married? Obviously, they aren’t supposed to practice abc, and you cannot be married int he Church if you don’t plan to have children, so where does that leave them?
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boppaid said:
Good thread! I just have to comment on the above quote. It cracks me up to hear, on a Catholic board no less, that minimum wage workers with large families are irresponsible (or don’t exist)! So, do the Catholics who feel that way believe that a low-wage earner isn’t supposed to get married? Obviously, they aren’t supposed to practice abc, and you cannot be married int he Church if you don’t plan to have children, so where does that leave them?
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. It is hard to digest some of the cold, callous remarks of some of the posters.
 
emily47017 said:
the “how should health care work” thread has evolved into a debate about who among the poor is deserving of our help.
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The Sermon on the Mount makes clear the answer.

Toss in Matthew 25 and Good Samaritan too.

“Deserving,” eh?

God be merciful to me a sinner.
 
Trader said:
I hope that isn’t too rigid for you, but it just happens to be the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources. I believe it is also best for the children.
Click to expand...
i hope this isn’t too surprising for you, but i totally agree! i think this is the model most of us use in our daily lives; i go to my family first if i need help, and i hope they would come to me if they needed help, too. my community has an awesome umbrella social service agency, funded by charitable donations and grants. i’m told that 20% of the households here are either recipients of services there, or voluteer to provide services. often they’re the same people.

i absolutely believe that that’s how we should be operating as a society and as a species. and for the most part, we are.

the problem is that it’s falling short for far too many people in this country. call me radical: i don’t believe there should be even one person in this wealthy nation who doesn’t have a place to sleep. i don’t think there should be one person who puts off going to the doctor because she can barely afford food that month. if it’s someone i know who’s having these problems, by god here’s my spare bed and i’ll dump my coin jar and see what i can do about a doctor’s appointment. but if it’s someone i’ll never meet, then i’d sleep easier knowing there were government programs taking care of them. i’d rather that than spend my time wondering “why isn’t grandma helping? why isn’t the church helping? whose responsibility is this anyway?”

the answer is pretty simple. it’s mine.
 
What does it say about our society if many people feel more comfortable asking for help from strangers in Washington, DC than the people who know and love them? Shouldn’t they be working a lot harder on their interpersonal relationships?

The story of the Good Samaritan is shocking not just because a man in need was helped by his natural enemy, but because those who had a higher duty to him, the priest and the Levite, took a pass.
 
Let’s start with the children and educate them. Right now, our failing public school system literally throws away about 30% of children (that’s about the percent who fail to graduate from high school.)

Let’s inculcate the values of work and saving – instead of “gay pride” and similar “values.” Let’s teach kids economics – like the time value of money.

Let’s institute Personal Retirement Accounts, funded with the Social Security surplus. Instead of ripping off the surplus and squandering it, let’s return it to the people who paid FICA taxes and let them manage it in their PRAs.
 
Trader said:
What does it say about our society if many people feel more comfortable asking for help from strangers in Washington, DC than the people who know and love them? Shouldn’t they be working a lot harder on their interpersonal relationships?
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Oh, I agree with you 100% here, that it’s a sad state of our society that people can’t often go to family. 😦
 
boppaid said:
Oh, I agree with you 100% here, that it’s a sad state of our society that people can’t often go to family. 😦
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Karl Marx (and many other social thinkers of his bent) actively discouraged private charity – holding that to be the business of the state.

We see where private charity is thriving, it is more efficient than state-run charity. But there is a double-wammy effect – the state has the power to tax, so it takes more money, leaving less and less for private charities. And the state moves to integrate private charities – making them dependent on state money and fostering state rules on them.
 
emily47017 said:
who deserves assistance from the community, either through government or charities?
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Anyone that asks that demonstrates a need, and those who cannot/will not ask but are in obvious need.
single mothers?
minimum wage workers?
minimum wage workers with large families? (it’s also been proposed that these folks don’t exist)
disabled?
elderly?
drunks?
gamblers?
mentally ill?
and what about the children of all these folks?
Click to expand...
There are reasonable justifications to say no to some of the above adults. Where is the line drawn for society to step in to help children of adults who refuse to help themselves or those dependent upon them?
and what kind of assistance do they deserve?
Click to expand...
cash?
food?
health care?
child care?
housing?
job training?
education?
Click to expand...
It depends on the situation/condition.
as for myself, i like dorothy day’s quote: “I firmly believe that our salvation depends on the poor.”
Click to expand...
discuss! 👍
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Will you force the drunk into rehab who does not want to go?
What will you say to the woman who is having a 4th child out of wedlock who can’t afford her first three?
If the gambler lost his house, will you give him another?
Minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage, and a whole other debate.

I would say the deserving poor are those who find themselves in need due to no fault of their own, to include the children of even the undeserving poor. I would say the undeserving poor are those who do not care enough about themselves, who have no personal interest or desire to be other than they are.

Society has as much an obligation to help the poor as the poor have an obligation to help themselves. I have often asked…who is my brother, or the stranger? What if my brother is a jerk who trashes the car I gave him as the stated need he requested, or if the stranger is a thief whom I brought into my home? Both the home and the vehicle could have been put to more beneficial use to someone more deserving if I had taken the due diligence to determine the need rather than give it without question.

If you had $1 to give, do you give it to the homelss drunk on the corner of the highway in East LA, or to a relief agency helping those in Darfur? If you have one job to offer, how do you decide if the illegal Mexican fleeing poverty gets it over the legal immigrant from India fleeing poverty, or the American living in poverty?
 
boppaid said:
Oh, I agree with you 100% here, that it’s a sad state of our society that people can’t often go to family. 😦
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Sorry, I have to lower that percentage a little. It is a sad state of our society that people won’t often go to a family.

Take the all too real case of loving parents who have to tell young adult offspring that because of his repeated drug abuse, he is a danger to his younger siblings and must leave home. It is easier for some children to seek help from a nonjudgemental government program. It will give him housing vouchers, food stamps, cash assistance, and some would even propose clean needles.
There is less accountability for his behavior from strangers, oddly enough, because they don’t love him as much as his parents.
 
The question, Who are the deserving poor?

gives rise to another question.

Who is your neighbor?

🙂
 
emily47017 said:
the “how should health care work” thread has evolved into a debate about who among the poor is deserving of our help. it seems like that ought to be its own thread, so here we go!

who deserves assistance from the community, either through government or charities?
Click to expand...
By definition, none are innocent, so none deserve. By culture and Church Tradition, children under the age of 7 are always innocent, as are the mentally handicapped, and those afflicted in their old age with mental handicaps are not excluded from this.

These, then, are the foundation of Charity.
emily47017 said:
single mothers?
minimum wage workers?
minimum wage workers with large families? (it’s also been proposed that these folks don’t exist)
disabled?
elderly?
drunks?
gamblers?
mentally ill?
and what about the children of all these folks?
Click to expand...
One must understand prudence when entering into this discussion. Man is able to collect enough for (1)himself, his children, his spouse, (2)his family, and (3)his community, first. (This is eroded by the tax system, but the damage is mitigated by various tax rules in our system, which is relatively advanced, including a massive non-profit arm.)

Also, by Tradition, we are to care for older widows. And in our culture, children under the age of 18 or even 22. Thus, to these we provide services. (Which we do, education and what not)

The next step would be to include those who support these. That would be parents. Support of the family, already partially done by some care for the children. This would be a different form however, which brings us to…
emily47017 said:
and what kind of assistance do they deserve?

cash?
food?
health care?
child care?
housing?
job training?
education?
Click to expand...
What is given is determined by what is most prudent to give, and what one has an supply of. Whether it be money, education, jobs, etc. One cannot sacrifice something they cannot afford (though they could cultivate that which they lack).
emily47017 said:
as for myself, i like dorothy day’s quote: “I firmly believe that our salvation depends on the poor.”

discuss! 👍
Click to expand...
Peace can only be achieved if the poor are given their dignity.
 
The deserving poor are the people who no fault of their own become sick, laid-off, injured in an accident, victim of a crime or natural disaster or such.
They are NOT the folks who make government hand-outs a way of life.
The are however people who think “the government will take care of me they have to, I got pregnant so the tax payer need to care for me, especially Christians, otherwise if they don’t then they are liars about being prolife” :rolleyes: HOGWASH! I, like most Catholics, am pro-life, but I am not pro-promiscuity, one needs to control ones urges when you do not have the means to raise a child.

😦 As for multipule out of wedlock babies, I as a Catholic who is pro-life I agree every child deserves life BUT not every woman deserves to raise that child in a home that is unhealthly physically, mentalily and sprituality. By all means help with 1st pregnancy, for we all make mistakes, but anymore the woman who requests welfare yet again without benefit of marriage or at the very least a partner to help raise the child(ren) then she is irresponable and should have the child given up for adoption.
Some will say this is cruel, but what is? I raised 5 children on less then $30,000 and did not recieve government handouts. Cruel is me taking on a second job, because of rising inflation and taxes, taking away from my family so they can continue in their lifestyles.
 
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