S
Sixtus
Guest
I would add: 'Wherever there is a need and I am able to fulfill it 
So you say the national high school non-completion rate is substantially lower than 28-30% ? And that **none **of our current high school kids are functionally illiterate?OK, So I am a teacher and I find that âin my opinionâ some of your opinions are not quite valid.
So an uncompleted study is what you want to hang your hat on?First, letâs talk about Head Start: On going survey: www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre/hs/impact_study/index.html this web site has a survey that started in 2003 and runs through 2009, with the improvements that have been made in education. Another web site is: www.highscope.org/Content.asp?ContentId=260 Here they compare those poor children who went to Head Start vs those who did not, or had other care. It shows how far they came from 4-5 year olds, how they stayed with their peers as OPPOSED to those with NO Head Start. It also discusses the absentee father, who makes a difference. You will find that they also discuss how much parental involvement goes on and how that affects the DROP OUT rate.
If its working, it ought to be working across the board, not just in a sample of â622 young adults 22 years old in Colorado and Florida.â The high school completion rate ought to be much higher than the current 70-72%.Into Adulthood: A Study of the Effects of âș Principal investigator Sherri Oden noted, âThese findings confirm that Head Start programs can have important long-term effects on the lives of the children they serve.â
Head Start,
by Sherri Oden, Lawrence Schweinhart, and David Weikart with Sue Marcus and Yu Xie (2000), presents encouraging findings from a 17-year follow-up study of 622 young adults 22 years old in Colorado and Florida, who were born in poverty and did or did not attend Head Start as young children. The researchers located and interviewed 77 percent of the original sample of children
I leave that statement as I found it â breathtaking.As for funding, schools cannot operate without it,
What is this âfunding?â Are you saying no public money is spent on schools? Obviously not â clearly schools are funded.and I live in one of the states that spends the least per capita and also live in a low-socioeconic, rural area. We depend upon funding to get the basics just to teach. I will tell you that I personally spend between $2,000 - $6,000 a year (that I keep records on). The needs that I provide for individual âneedy poor studentsâ I do NOT claim, I just feel that is my Christian duty.
I get âpage not foundâ on that National Public Radio site.Here is a website that is not antiquated about funding the education system in the US.
www.npr.org/programs/specials/polleducation/education.front.html
And how does that translate into a higher high-school graduation rate?As a first grade teacher, I can tell the poor children who had the opportunity to go to Head Start, vs those needy children who did not. The ones who went to Head Start have been given the advantage to be on level with their peers. Those who did not get a lot of remediation, but have a difficult time catching up for any number of reasons.
I think the important thing is to remember that the children NEED QUALITY education, and they arenât getting it.I think the important thing is to remember that the children NEED QUALITY education,
Nobody tells you you arenât doing your job â but you illustrate the problem. You identify with the school system. You take any criticism of the system as criticism of yourself.and that starts at home. If they do not get it at home, then the teacher becomes teacher, mom, dad, social worker and police officer. You tell me, that I am not doing my job, when I take students who do NOT recognize letters or sounds and teach them to read. You tell me, that I am not doing my job, when I get a child who doesnât know his colors, but by the end of the year reads the words without thought. You tell me, that I am not doing my job when I take students who have no clue how to count and teach them to add/subtract and regroup.
Once again, you take criticism of the system personally â which keeps you from seeing and addressing the problems.Think about what you are saying and realize that you can NOT make BLANKET statements in education. There are too many variables, and they are NOT all the teachers fault, she/he just gets blamed for them.
You have not yet shown that.Now I am not trying to hurt your feelings, I just want you to be aware, that for every study done out there, there is another just the opposite.
When you start blaming the parents, you begin to say, âI canât do my job because of them.â And accepting money for a job you know you canât do is wrong.Not all teachers are lazy, and many have more jobs than you can fulfill in a lifetime. This is a high stress job, because you want the best for your students and sometimes YOU are the ONLY ONE who wants that, because the parents think of us as baby sitters.
And yet you try to put up a smokescreen to tell us that Head Start works, and all is wonderful â all the while knowing that dropout rate is there and isnât getting better.About the drop out rate, I take that into consideration from day one. I know that if a child leaves my room and cannot read, write and do math at least on level with the average student, his/her chance of being a drop out comes into play.
As I said, all these excuses lead to the conclusion that you are accepting money for a job you know you canât do.Am I the ONLY one responsible for that, NO. The parent who will not or cannot help their child has a part in that, and all of those parents who put athletics ahead of education are also to blame.
Yes, they are â and they deserve a quality education. But they wonât get it when educators take criticism personally, refuse to accept valid criticism of the system, make excuses, and try put the blame everywhere but on the system.These children are the DESERVING POOR!!!
Yes, we do â but how can we do it when any criticism of the system is seem by the teachers to be an attack on themselves, personally? How can we do it when any exploration of the problems become a new round of the blame-game, with educators pointing fingers everywhere but at the system that was created to educate the children?We need to realize this, and work toward helping them become better educated, so that they do not live in poverty forever.
I do â in fact, I volunteer with reading (including an adult reading program). I tutor high school kids in math. I tutor students in nursing programs in math.Anyone can volunteer at a school, to help read with students, to be a mentor (of course you have to have a background check), but here is a way for everyone to help and it would only cost them about 30 minutes a week. Think about that. I am here for the children!!!
Think about the 28-30% of children who donât graduate from high school â and think about how we can help them.I was there for my own and still am, but I am here for those I teach. They are my priority in life, and I will do what I must to help them. Think about me and know that there are teachers like me in your school system, in your state and then decide the tax money is not necessary. If you still feel that way, donate your time, I guarantee you will not be turned away.
So those who drop out, although most are condemned to be poor, are not the deserving poor?Vern Humphrey #202
If you want a thread about the drop out rate, maybe you should start one and then we might be able to get on the same page. Remember I told you this is about âTHE DESERVING POORâ.
You are a teacher, are you not? Presumably, you are therefore able to express yourself in writing.Vern Humphrey #202
You state REPEATEDLY, that I cannot accept critism, but you do not know me and yet you criticize me.
Where does it site that the state of being poor increases the drop out rate anymore than absentee parenting?So those who drop out, although most are condemned to be poor, are not the deserving poor?
I defend a system that has been dumped on by society to care for the very youngest of the poor, if that is being a teacher, so be it.You are a teacher, are you not? Presumably, you are therefore able to express yourself in writing.
When I read what you wrote, I see you wandering off the subjet (Who are the deserving poor?) in a defense of a system that has failed the poor.
Iâm not sure I understand the question.Where does it site that the state of being poor increases the drop out rate anymore than absentee parenting?
It isnât â itâs being an apologist.I defend a system that has been dumped on by society to care for the very youngest of the poor, if that is being a teacher, so be it.
Are you serious?This is not anymore wandering off the subject than you with your âdrop outâ rate. I didnât see anywhere that you proved being poor is the cause of the drop out rate.
I can (and have) objectively shown the system is failing â the dropout rate alone is enough to prove that.My understanding of what you wrote was that you blamed the system and the teachers, not the fact that the students were poor.
The cite I gave you has the following note at the bottom of the page:Iâd like to meet that HS Grad that makes $41,000+, with a college degree I donât make that.
You should direct any questions to the US Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census.Source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports, Series P-60, âMoney Income of Households, Families, and Persons in the United States,â âIncome, Poverty, and Valuation of Noncash Benefits,â various years; and Series P-60, âMoney Income in the United States,â various years. From Digest of Education Statistics 2005.
You know, that was the very first question I asked you!The people you are talking about CHOOSE to drop out of school and suffer the consequences, they are not in my opinion deserving poor, however their children are.
And the people we have been discussing â mothers taking nursing courses â certainly donât fall into that category.When I speak of absentee parenting, I am talking about the parent who is not available on ANY level for their child.
I would agree with you that an orphan living on the street needs our help.These are the students at the highest risk, because they get no moral support, no one to check up on HW, no one to even see that they attend school, they really have no one or no place to turn, these are deserving poor. They deserve our best.
Which is certainly not the case with the ladies we are discussing. In fact, the example they set is itself an act of parenting â and instills in the child by example the value of educaiton and hard work.On the other side, and at the same time the same side is the parent who is âphysicallyâ there, but puts NO emphasis on education and does nothing to help in the cause of their child being educated.
Which is not the case with the ladies we are discussing.This parent may or may not be poor. They are only concerned with the fact that the child is not at home (freedom for the parent). These same parents care a great deal about sports, extra curricular, school (education) is just an inconvenience they have to deal with.
Iâm speaking of any child, at any age.Although we are disagreeing, I think on some level we have the same idea in mind, with just a few tweeks. I am thinking more along the very poor young child (a child who truly has no one). You are speaking of a teenager, and it is my wish (I know this is not always possible) that if we do everything right with the young child, he/she will not drop out of school and can go on to further the educational level.
I would hope so. My positioin is based on three points:Does this make sense to you? Do you think we can come to some sort of agreement?
Absolutely!!I just read your new post. Do you really want someone who is âdisentangledâ as you put it, to teach your child.
âCaringâ is a word with many definitions. When it comes to education, I want results, and the emotional involvement of the teacher is immaterial.Donât you want someone who cares about your child and whether or not he/she learns?
Sure â but I want that help to work.Donât you want a teacher that will go the extra mile to help those who need help, be it academic or financial?
A good teacher is definitely an asset â but there is no evidence you can buy an education. It isnât a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it.I hope you agree with this⊠I think basically we want the same things. The best education money can buy, plus a teacher who will go the extra mile to insure that our children are successful.
It is one thing to be emotionally attached to the children, another thing entirely to be emotionally attached to oneself. The latter case leads to rejection of legitimate criticism and objective analysis of problems.An emotional attachment with the very young children is not necessarily a drawback, as there are so many similarities between being a mother/father and being a teacher. Example being that we are both nurturers.
Yes, but it will take more than a mile to fix our education system.Now having said that, I feel that we both want what is best for the children, and that we need to go the extra mile to make sure that the poor children have the same chance to succeed as the not poor children.
Do you agree with this?
I suggest a system where parents choose the school â any school â and let competition weed out the bad schools, while the good ones prosper.The question is how? I know that government programs are successful, ex. Head Start, while others are not quite so sucessful. Then end result in my opinion is that teachers must max out there capabilities to teach all students, so that all are successful.
I salute him.Sorry, I have to run, a former student was killed in Iraq and is receiving a posthumus Congretional Medal of Honor today and I have been invited.
Later
It depends on the field you choose, as well. My sister didnât go to college at allâŠwas a stay at home for 15 yearsâŠwent back to work 17 years ago, and now make over $80k per yearâshe worked her way up from a sales rep position in the hotel businessâŠand now is the Director of Sales. I think that a college degree does not guarantee anything, reallyâŠand there are many people who work their ways up the ladderâŠand again, depending on the field you chooseâyou can make great money as a HS grad.Iâd like to meet that HS Grad that makes $41,000+, with a college degree I donât make that. The people you are talking about CHOOSE to drop out of school and suffer the consequences, they are not in my opinion deserving poor, however their children are.
When I speak of absentee parenting, I am talking about the parent who is not available on ANY level for their child. These are the students at the highest risk, because they get no moral support, no one to check up on HW, no one to even see that they attend school, they really have no one or no place to turn, these are deserving poor. They deserve our best.
On the other side, and at the same time the same side is the parent who is âphysicallyâ there, but puts NO emphasis on education and does nothing to help in the cause of their child being educated. This parent may or may not be poor. They are only concerned with the fact that the child is not at home (freedom for the parent). These same parents care a great deal about sports, extra curricular, school (education) is just an inconvenience they have to deal with.
Although we are disagreeing, I think on some level we have the same idea in mind, with just a few tweeks. I am thinking more along the very poor young child (a child who truly has no one). You are speaking of a teenager, and it is my wish (I know this is not always possible) that if we do everything right with the young child, he/she will not drop out of school and can go on to further the educational level.
Does this make sense to you? Do you think we can come to some sort of agreement?
I just read your new post. Do you really want someone who is âdisentangledâ as you put it, to teach your child. Donât you want someone who cares about your child and whether or not he/she learns? Donât you want a teacher that will go the extra mile to help those who need help, be it academic or financial?
This does sound like an ideal solution to the problem, but if you think about it with regard to the deserving poor, not quite so good. In order for parents to be able to select out of area schools, they will have to provide the transportation to get back and forth to the school. There may also be a difference in the amount of the voucher and the amount the new school expects to be paid for taking an âout of areaâ student. This goes on right now. There are NO laws that mandate that a student must attend the school they are assigned to based on where they live. The only rules are that you have to pay a âtuitionâ, which would be done away with and replaced with vouchers if parents are allowed to choose. Also, the new school does not have to and will not take on the financial burden of picking up out of area students. The cost is just to great.I suggest a system where parents choose the school â any school â and let competition weed out the bad schools, while the good ones prosper.
So are they all.Vern Humphrey
First let me say thank you for the salute, I know it would have meant much to this young man. He was a wonder human being and a terrific soldier. So youngâŠ
Ah â I donât propose a âvoucher.â I propose a standard tuition â notionally 90 to 95% of the per-pupil share of the educationi budget â paid to whatever school the parents choose.This does sound like an ideal solution to the problem, but if you think about it with regard to the deserving poor, not quite so good. In order for parents to be able to select out of area schools, they will have to provide the transportation to get back and forth to the school. There may also be a difference in the amount of the voucher and the amount the new school expects to be paid for taking an âout of areaâ student.
Only in the present paradigm.This goes on right now. There are NO laws that mandate that a student must attend the school they are assigned to based on where they live. The only rules are that you have to pay a âtuitionâ, which would be done away with and replaced with vouchers if parents are allowed to choose. Also, the new school does not have to and will not take on the financial burden of picking up out of area students. The cost is just to great.
Not at all.So here we are again, facing the fact that those who can afford better will get better, while those who cannot will not.