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scarlet405
Guest
Wonderful and inspiring!…I think it is a real priveldge and gift to be known to them and able to speak to them. In them I see the face of the suffering Christ
Well Said!
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Well Said!
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Actually, the unemployment rate is determined by a survey done by the US Department of Labor, it is not determined counting the number of people receiving unemployment benefits. So somebody who was unemployed for a year, would still be counted as being unemployed, even though they might not be receiving any unemployment compensation.
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boppaid
Guest
Just out of curiosity, who is surveyed? because once my husband was dropped from Unemployment, no one knew he was still unemployed. He wasn’t counted, and neither were the 30-40 guys he knew also unemployed in his union. I was always under the impression that the stats were taken fromthe state’s unemployment records. Can you show me a link to this? (I’m not doubting you, it just doesn’t make sense as to what I was always taught.)
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Amolibri
Guest
Don’t know your source, but I believe this to be just the opposite.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Here is a brief excerpt on how the Bureau of Labor Statistics determines the unemployment rate:
The entire webpage provides more information than most people would care to know, can be found here:
bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm
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stinkcat_14
Guest
They do the survey monthly, I am not sure of the number, I saw something that said they survey around 55,000 people per month. Of course, 95% of those surveyed are employed, so the odds of somebody being unemployed and surveyed in the same month are very small.
If the link in my previous post doesn’t clear thinks up for you, let me know and I will search for something a little more user friendly.
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boppaid
Guest
It does answer my question. Thank you!
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Amolibri
Guest
Thanks, and fyi, all:
Unemployed persons are:
Code:
* All persons who were not classified as employed during the survey reference week, made specific active efforts to find a job during the prior 4 weeks, and were available for work.
* All persons who were not working and were waiting to be called back to a job from which they had been temporarily laid off.
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emily47017
Guest
ditto – and i also think that paul was writing to a specific congregation, giving specific pastoral advice. perhaps there were one or two members who appeared to be taking advantage of the communal setup of these early christian communities. it’s difficult to extrapolate that into a summary of christian responsibility to the needy today, in our highly competitive, compartmentalized, specialized economies.
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sojo
Guest
Update since my last post and the several lovely replies… (realize this thread has since moved in a myriad directions).
We survived another birthday.!!! Sam has turned 11 years old, our miracle baby who my family so urgently preferred be aborted.
When you are barely scraping along financially , birthdays, Christmas, etc. are often just very difficult miletstones to survive. Sam (just turned 11 years old with Down syndrome) was disappointed we couldn’t afford a party like he attended for his little friend, but we explained that feeding guests just wasn’t a possibility this year. Disabled or not, I think he got it. No big birthday cake, just a tiny 6" cheesecake with candles. A few presents, many of them used, not new.
But Mom and Dad sacrificed time from our mutliple jobs to spend a day off with him,(yeah, we had to get up at 4 a.m. to get internet biz finished and then late into the night to finish it off after we got back home) and he understood what a sacrifice it was for our family. I feel so blessed to have a son that appreciates time with his parents as a present in and of itself. And no matter if the some of the presents are used, previously owned – the point was we searched for things he would like. Presents from relatives (a few of whom are millionaires) – zero. Oh that’s right, they all wanted him to be aborted. But we pulled out one more birthday. Next goal – make Christmas magical.
Yes, we have brought up our son to understand that a gift doesn’t have to be “new” – if it is “new” to him, it is a blessing. Sam is very used to receiving used items as gifts for birthday and Christmas. I remember getting used stuff for Christmas and birthday as a child, and swore I would never to the same to my own child… but so what, what did I know anyway?
For the lovely person who sent a prayer that the Knights might provide a decent Christmas for Sam, thank you. The Knights are a wonderful resource, but we would feel unworthy to expect them to solve our own particular problem. But interrestingly, shortly before you posted, I had asked my husband to ask our little rural group (maybe 12 regular members?) to sponsor a Christmas party for our little Down syndrome support group, and hopefully that will all fall into place. Many of the members of our little local Down syndrome group are in better places economically than us, but who is to say that they are in a better place emotionally?
God bless you all – please don’t forget that many if not most of the “deserving poor” are right there among you, just hanging on and trying to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Take heart and know that some of us “poor” are praying for you who think you have all the answers while you sit in incredible, blessed security.
sojo
We survived another birthday.!!! Sam has turned 11 years old, our miracle baby who my family so urgently preferred be aborted.
When you are barely scraping along financially , birthdays, Christmas, etc. are often just very difficult miletstones to survive. Sam (just turned 11 years old with Down syndrome) was disappointed we couldn’t afford a party like he attended for his little friend, but we explained that feeding guests just wasn’t a possibility this year. Disabled or not, I think he got it. No big birthday cake, just a tiny 6" cheesecake with candles. A few presents, many of them used, not new.
But Mom and Dad sacrificed time from our mutliple jobs to spend a day off with him,(yeah, we had to get up at 4 a.m. to get internet biz finished and then late into the night to finish it off after we got back home) and he understood what a sacrifice it was for our family. I feel so blessed to have a son that appreciates time with his parents as a present in and of itself. And no matter if the some of the presents are used, previously owned – the point was we searched for things he would like. Presents from relatives (a few of whom are millionaires) – zero. Oh that’s right, they all wanted him to be aborted. But we pulled out one more birthday. Next goal – make Christmas magical.
Yes, we have brought up our son to understand that a gift doesn’t have to be “new” – if it is “new” to him, it is a blessing. Sam is very used to receiving used items as gifts for birthday and Christmas. I remember getting used stuff for Christmas and birthday as a child, and swore I would never to the same to my own child… but so what, what did I know anyway?
For the lovely person who sent a prayer that the Knights might provide a decent Christmas for Sam, thank you. The Knights are a wonderful resource, but we would feel unworthy to expect them to solve our own particular problem. But interrestingly, shortly before you posted, I had asked my husband to ask our little rural group (maybe 12 regular members?) to sponsor a Christmas party for our little Down syndrome support group, and hopefully that will all fall into place. Many of the members of our little local Down syndrome group are in better places economically than us, but who is to say that they are in a better place emotionally?
God bless you all – please don’t forget that many if not most of the “deserving poor” are right there among you, just hanging on and trying to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Take heart and know that some of us “poor” are praying for you who think you have all the answers while you sit in incredible, blessed security.
sojo
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vern_humphrey
Guest
You could say that about every single one of the epistles of Paul – he wrote to specific audiences, about specific questions.
Despite that, his epistles have a timeless quality. That’s why they’re in the New Testament (in fact, the epistles of Paul make up almost half of the books of the New Testament.) He wrote for us as much as for the communities and individuals to which his epistles were addressed.
More than a couple – Paul addresses this problem more than once.
Yet that is exactly what we are required to do. Do you say we cannot extrapolate the Gospels “in our highly competitive, compartmentalized, specialized economies?” Is Christ’s message obsolete?
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Trader
Guest
It should not surprise anyone that government statistics are rarely simple. There are two different surveys done every month. One surveys businesses about their payrolls and the second surveys households. The household survey is better at picking up the self-employed, who have become a larger part of the labor force in recent years. You can find a government statistic to support almost any argument.
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scarlet405
Guest
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Trader
Guest
I admit I had not considered this possibility. I still do not think that was the reason they turned down the offer.
I no longer offer rides to strangers either. I gave a ride to another man who asked for a ride to a gas station and money to get the gas from the post office two blocks south of our church. As soon as we got on to the street he made an indecent proposal and grabbed at my crotch. I won’t fall for that one again. I wasn’t really in danger, he was a lot smaller than me.
This Tuesday we had a choir practice at the Cathedral in preparation for the Eucharistic Congress at Notre Dame next week. When we finished at 9:30, the Diocesan Director of Music made two announcement for the people who had come from other parishes for the practice. First, do not go to your car alone. Second, if you encounter anyone in the parking lot asking for money, do not give it to him.
We also had a theft at the Cathedral in June when some night time visitors stole the copper downspouts from the rectory and the Cathedral. The Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception is the oldest continuously used church in northern Indiana and is on the National Register of Historic Places. It is not easy to get replacement parts after 150 years.
If you would like to make a contribution to replace the downspouts that would be fine. If you want to give cash to crack addicts, that is not fine.
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repo_man
Guest
i should preface this by stating these aren’t the musings of a typical optimistic teenager. i was an atheist libertarian for quite awhile. i refound my catholicism and from briefly studying jesus realized my extreme right-wing politics were completely incompatible with the faith.the “how should health care work” thread has evolved into a debate about who among the poor is deserving of our help. it seems like that ought to be its own thread, so here we go!
who deserves assistance from the community, either through government or charities?
single mothers?
minimum wage workers?
minimum wage workers with large families? (it’s also been proposed that these folks don’t exist)
disabled?
elderly?
drunks?
gamblers?
mentally ill?
and what about the children of all these folks?
and what kind of assistance do they deserve?
cash?
food?
health care?
child care?
housing?
job training?
education?
as for myself, i like dorothy day’s quote: “I firmly believe that our salvation depends on the poor.”
discuss!
i think all the poor are deserving. of how much? i don’t know. ideally, with everything you mentioned. the only thing i don’t know about is welfare. or at least permanent welfare. i think it should be there to assist those who have hit rock bottom. but we can’t sustain them forever. at some point they have to be responsible and get a job. but we should always be compassionate. even to junkies and drunks. even if nine out of ten people with welfare checks spend them on frivolous things, that doesn’t justify ending the program and leaving that one honest person trying to help their children survive with no aid.
a nation should be judged on the treatment of its poorest citizens.
when i was trying to reconcile catholicism and libertarianism i came across the papal encyclical populorum progressio, which admittedly i skimmed. this was pivotal for me because earlier in the year i debated this older catholic man about social justice. still in my libertarian mindset i insisted that it was the job of private charity and private charity only to ensure the poor were given proper basic needs. he kept arguing that there’s a point where that ends and where all humans deserve basic necessities like food and proper wages and health care and i just refused to believe it. i refused to believe that legislated morality was in anyway sincere. but in this encyclical pope paul VI says that in this day in age it is beyond private charity and indeed the fact governments need to respect the dignity of every person oppressed by dire socioeconomic conditions. moreso it was meant to be applicable as far as third world foreign aid, but i think it’s relevant at home.
While it is proper that a nation be the first to enjoy the God-given fruits of its own labor, no nation may dare to hoard its riches for its own use alone. Each and every nation must produce more and better goods and products, so that all its citizens may live truly human lives and so that it may contribute to the common development of the human race.
…
Government leaders, your task is to draw your communities into closer ties of solidarity with all men, and to convince them that they must accept the necessary taxes on their luxuries and their wasteful expenditures in order to promote the development of nations and the preservation of peace. Delegates to international organizations, it is largely your task to see to it that senseless arms races and dangerous power plays give way to mutual collaboration between nations, a collaboration that is friendly, peaceoriented, and divested of self-interest, a collaboration that contributes greatly to the common development of mankind and allows the individual to find fulfillment.
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catharina
Guest
An article in today’s Chicago Tribune, on-line, suggests that one village in the Chicago area took a stand against an infant who was regarded as the undeserving poor. This stance seems to have been based in his mother’s status as Hispanic newcomer.
chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ambulance21sep21,0,4003506.story?coll=chi_tab01_layout
Opening lines with pic of baby:
“A family photo shows Osbiel Lopez when he was 4 months old. His mother, Gloria Lopez, filed a $30 million federal lawsuit alleging that anti-immigrant sentiment contributed to paramedics’ failure to take him to the hospital, causing permanent brain damage. (Family photo)”
If I recall my American History classes, Roman Catholics were often regarded as the Undeserving Poor throughout the 19th and 20th centuries because of their “failure” to limit the size of their families.
chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ambulance21sep21,0,4003506.story?coll=chi_tab01_layout
Opening lines with pic of baby:
“A family photo shows Osbiel Lopez when he was 4 months old. His mother, Gloria Lopez, filed a $30 million federal lawsuit alleging that anti-immigrant sentiment contributed to paramedics’ failure to take him to the hospital, causing permanent brain damage. (Family photo)”
If I recall my American History classes, Roman Catholics were often regarded as the Undeserving Poor throughout the 19th and 20th centuries because of their “failure” to limit the size of their families.
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SoCalRC
Guest
FWIW, the BLS is putting unemployment even lower - down in the 4.5 range. This is not “full employment”, that would be down in the 2% range (which Britain actually maintained for periods until the 1970’s). It is below what Economist Milton Friedman called the “Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment” (NAIRU), the minimum point it was believed that employment could be at before the economy experienced serious inflation.
Although it drove monetary policy for quite awhile, that theory took a major hit during the 90’s, when unemployment was down to 4.9% without significant inflation. It is now considered pretty much dead, since the adjusted unemployment rate now seems wholly uncoupled from wages. Historically low rates, combined with the first multi year stretch of static and declining wages since WWII, and a job creation record that does not keep up with ADP predictions on workforce growth has economists scratching their heads.
Some argue that the employment figures are a hopelessly flawed metric, others argue that globalization, which has US workers pitted against $0.35 an hour slave labor in China, holds wages down, which in turn inflates domestic employment figures. Still others argue that the exportation of so many skilled jobs has created a bigger competition pool for remaining jobs here (that is, now that a larger percentage of jobs are unskilled, the unemployment rate needs to get very low - say 2.5-3.5%, before supply/demand will push wages upward). Still others just throw up their hands…
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The phraseology you’re using seems to come from the Wikipedia article on the subject – which also indicates some economists consider “full employment” to be a point or two higher than 5%.
What’s your point?
“Hopelessly flawed” in respect to what?
Let me see, the ability to have Chinese do the job at $0.35 an hour means more Americans are employed?
Globalization actually increases the employment rate in the US?
And what’s your point?
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Trader
Guest
I hope you also know from history that those poor but legal immigrants built churches, schools, universities, orphanages, and hospitals themselves. The Knights of Columbus were started in large part to provide affordable life insurance for Catholics. They did not come here demanding that others do that for them. When their nieghborhoods burned in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, they rebuilt a better city with little if any government help.
Also the vast majority of those large but poor families were headed by two parents committed to each other in marriage. That is emphatically not the case today. In 2005 Indiana and Ohio had 39% of all babies born to unmarried mothers. Among some large ethnic groups 70% of babies were born to unmarried mothers. I could also argue very strongly that the #1 cause of poverty in America is the choice to disrespect marriage.
All of this does not mean we owe nothing to the poor, but it does mean we cannot offer them effective help unless we also demand that people in need change their own destructive behavior.
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catharina
Guest
I can’t recall a single thing that Jesus taught regarding the notion that we lay our “demands” on the poor. Am I mistaken? Has my memory failed me?
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