Who are the early church fathers for SDAs?

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andrewstx said:
Personally I think the SDA’s talk of the Waldensians is there form of the Baptist’s trail of blood theory.
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This is my opinion as well; I just wanted to see what the sources might be. (I ought to just ask the local SDA pastor, DUH anodos…)

I appreciate when non-Catholic voices can help me to better understand other Christians and religions (or non-religions), and there seems to be a lot of them on these forums. :cool:
 
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ADZ:
@ Pythons
Why was Jesus tempted? Or by your reasoning, was he tempted at all if he couldnt have sinned? He came in the flesh to be one of us but to get the victory over sin. There would be no victory if there was no real battle and the possibility of sinning (as unlikely as it was)in the first place. In saying that, can someone who sinned stand in front of God? No! If Jesus failed could we still get to Heaven? No!
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ADZ,

The New Testament says that Jesus was called out of Egypt so that what the Prophet said about the Lord would be fulfilled…
…I will quote it below.

Matthew 2,16
And was there until the death of Herod: **that it might be fulfilled **WHICH was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son

This should not be “shocking” to discover by the average Bible student…
…For Jesus Himself was explicit that EVERYTHING written about Him in the Law, Prophets & Psalms “HAD TO BE” fulfilled.

Luke 24,44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me

Jesus said this many times prior to the Cross so you should ask yourself a very serious question…
…What **would have happend **if Jesus NEVER set foot into Egypt.
…OR perhaps was born of a woman who wasn’t a virgin?

If the Christ HAD TO BE according to the Scriptures & Jesus ended up doing something that violated the Psalms, Prophets or Law of Moses…
…Would you not think He wasn’t the Christ to start with?

The Prophets were explicitly clear that God Himself was going to come and save us…
…The Prophets were explicitly clear that The Christ would die for the people.
…AND die with NO SIN then be Resurrected on the 3rd day.

If Jesus would have sinned He wouldn’t have been the Christ, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES…
…The Arian & Semi-Arian Seventh-day Adventists categorically rejected the Trinity.
…To them the Christ needed to overcome His own selfish and evil desires so He could be an example.

At any moment this ‘creature christ’ could have fallen - then the Ultimate God would have extracted Christ’s “conditional deity”…
…Subsequent to Jesus’ on-loan deity being extracted from Him there would be only a lifeless husk.
…Which would have rotted in the tomb.

I’m sorry, Catholics will have a hard time accepting this kind of theology…
…We believe it violates the Bible and is in fact a doctrine of the antichrist.

To further answer your question there was ZERO risk that The Christ ( God the Son ) would fail…
…For Scripture says of Him that He was the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world.

Using your rubric would have one logically conclude that the war in heaven was all a mockery and a farce…
…If Lucifer didn’t at least have some chance in defeating God and throwing God out of heaven, right?
…I mean that is exactly what you just said in your chain of logic about Christ.

SDA’s from my experience, enjoy genuflecting to the Prophet Daniel…
…Which SDA’s claim prove their theology when combined with the Book of Revelation.
…So lets look and see what Daniel the Prophet says about there being a “RISK” in a failing creature christ.

Daniel 2, 40
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is CERTAIN, and the interpretation thereof SURE.

The Great God of Heaven “Personally” PROMISED that the these event WOULD come to pass…
…“The dream is certain and the interpretation thereof SURE” is what God said.

Now, exactly what kind of a “prophet” would go on record in rebuking “God”???
 
I had posted this information on a well known Seventh-day Adventist Forum…
…In hopes of opening a discussion about the matter.
…And in two days logged in to check on any updates and was greeted with.
Message at log-in on established SDA Forum:
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry maimonides, you are banned from using this forum!
Undermining the doctrines of the churhc
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In their feverish haste to keep from having their teachings questioned…
…They also re-defined how to spell Church.

What SDA’s generally do is yell loudly about prayers to Mary, and calling Priests Father…
…They do this to try to “piggy back” onto Evangelicals however the SDA’s are not really concerned with this.
…What they are after is to get in & apply their Arian theology.

Thus when someone challenges them on their heretical views they are not prepared to discuss it in depth…
…They will simply run away.
 
anodos said:
:rotfl:
Even worser! There is no end to their nefarious schemes! 😃
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It appears you are right about that!

Their position is undersandable given that their view of Christ is so similar to that of the Jehovah’s Witnesses…
…Remember it was George Storrs & another man known as Incarnation of Elijah.
… WHO conviced William Miller that Jesus would come on 22 October 1844.
…The SDA’s consider this date the one on which Christ started to splater His blood in the literal sanctuary in heaven.
 
This is because the JW’s share DNA with the Seventh-day Adventists…
…A JW “IS” an Adventist - they are just not ‘seventh day’ Adventist.
…Both promulgate the creature Christ Doctrine.
 
I would ask a SDA member pretty much the same question of how they came up with their doctrines and dogmas.

Yes, agree with Nicea, that SDA’s and Jehovah Witnesses, and certain denominations of Mormonism cannot grasp our differing point of view, and that it is most difficult to communicate with them.

SDA is very anti-Catholic. Same with the JW’s. And yes, they with the Mormons, who also was very anti-Catholic even in expressing it in rituals up to 1997, all believed the Church went into apostasy after the death of the last apostle, implying Christ came at the wrong time.

There is a branch of Baptists who hold the same convictions, and all of them, when they begin to study academically, cannot identify exactly when this truly happened, and some are pointing to now the 5th century.

I always contribute this site, www.calledtocommunion.com, ‘Ecclesial Deists’, which Catholics are. This article in part discusses the problems with the idea of an early apostasy – which the martyrdom of early Christians and their bishops, destruction of churches occurred on and off for 300 years until the reign of Emperor Constantine.

To endure such hardship of early persecution in the Church certainly does not reflect any such apostasy but the opposite, a great faith in Christ that people were willing to die for Him.

Some think the apostasy was moved up really to the defining of the Nicene Creed, that essentially affirmed one, true God. I don’t know what caused them to look at the 5th century as possible date of apostasy, held more by Restorationist Baptists.

But when such organizations are so anti-Catholic, it really is a reflection of the closing of one’s mind using the veil of religion.

I heard some stories of SDA’s attending RCIA meetings, but then hardly any of them becoming Catholic.
 
They could always appeal to the ebionites, who more than likely kept the sabbath, unlike the christians whom called themselves catholic and preserved the bible which they use. God works in mysterious ways :rolleyes:
 
Pythons said:
This is because the JW’s share DNA with the Seventh-day Adventists…
…A JW “IS” an Adventist - they are just not ‘seventh day’ Adventist.
…Both promulgate the creature Christ Doctrine.
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I have a Seventh-Day Adventist friend of Rwandan background. (That sect has been growing in Central Africa in the past couple decades, unfortunately.) On one occasion he implicitly affirmed the trinity to me and didn’t express a belief in Christ as a creature. This guy did attend Catholic (at least secondary) school though, and doesn’t seem to harbour any of the prejudice I expected, so… 🤷
 
Trebor135 said:
I have a Seventh-Day Adventist friend of Rwandan background. (That sect has been growing in Central Africa in the past couple decades, unfortunately.) On one occasion he implicitly affirmed the trinity to me and didn’t express a belief in Christ as a creature. This guy did attend Catholic (at least secondary) school though, and doesn’t seem to harbour any of the prejudice I expected, so… 🤷
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They ( the SDA’s ) have poured an alien meaning into the word Trinity…
…Ask your friend if it would have been possible for ‘God’ The Son to sin.
…And if He ( Jesus ) had sinned, what would have happened to Him.
…You will have your answer fairly fast.
 
Pythons said:
They ( the SDA’s ) have poured an alien meaning into the word Trinity…
…Ask your friend if it would have been possible for ‘God’ The Son to sin.
…And if He ( Jesus ) had sinned, what would have happened to Him.
…You will have your answer fairly fast.
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Thanks for the info–I’ll have to look into it.

Something tells me this may have come up earlier in the thread (which hasn’t been active for a while), so I’ll have to skim through it again.
 
Trebor135 said:
Thanks for the info–I’ll have to look into it.

Something tells me this may have come up earlier in the thread (which hasn’t been active for a while), so I’ll have to skim through it again.
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Yes, there are some quotes for you to confirm earlier in this thread.
 
anodos said:
The SDA denomination is essentially anti-Catholic; apart from this aspect of its nature, I don’t believe it would continue to exist (unlike many other Protestant denominations which - lately, at least - seem to readily accept that Catholicism is one among many possible forms of Christianity).

However, I wanted to mention that, unlike Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is not a cult. Though they reject certain Christian teachings (such as Hell and the immortality of the soul), SDAs do acknowledge the trinity of God, the necessity of baptism (though I’m not sure if they see baptism as being for the remission of sins, or something more like a symbol of obedience), the deity, humanity, death and resurrection of Christ, and the potential to lose one’s salvation, among other valid Christian doctrines.

(I don’t mean to tell you what you probably already know, I just wanted to point out that the Catholic Church views the Adventists as Christians; I’ve come across people who weren’t aware of that. :o)
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And SDA are sabbath holders as well. Why? Because the reject and deny chuch authority. The are Bible-Only Christians
 
Nicea325 said:
And SDA are sabbath holders as well. Why? Because the reject and deny chuch authority. The are Bible-Only Christians
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Actually they claim to be sola-scriptura they are in fact not. They hold the “writeings” of their prophetess Ellen White as equal to the bible.
 
andrewstx said:
Actually they claim to be sola-scriptura they are in fact not. They hold the “writeings” of their prophetess Ellen White as equal to the bible.
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Actually, they hold the utterances of Ellen White to be over ( above and beyond ) the Bible…
…This teaching comes directly from ‘the prophet’.

Ellen White
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God’s mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God’s penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One “The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers”)

Ellen White classifies that the people who wrote the Bible were inspired by God…
…But the product of that inspiration was NOT God’s “ultimate revelation”.
…The product simply was the thoughts and expressions of ‘humanity’.

SDA’s believe that Ellen White was God’s ‘sock puppet’ - a super prophet if you will…
…A prophet that spoke ONLY those exact words God gave her to speak.

Ellen White
Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I CANNOT but speak the words GIVEN me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony… I speak the words GIVEN ME by a higher power than human power, and I CANNOT, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence” (1MR 28).

Ellen White
After the passing of the time in 1844 we searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with the brethren, and we studied and prayed earnestly… When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," **the Spirit of the Lord would come upon ME. I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given **ME, with instruction as to how WE were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, his mission, and his priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given ME." (Review and Herald, May 25, 1905)

Now, most Christians believe what Jesus said in the Gospels - when He said…
…That EVERYTHING spoken of Him by the Prophets HAD TO BE FULFILLED.
…This means that if the Prophets said He would be born of a virgin, die without sin, rise on the 3rd day, etc.
…All of It, Absolutely HAD TO BE FULFILLED.

Ellen White usurps the Bible boldly when she categorically stated that Christ could have sinned and lost His salvation…
…And that IF He would have sinned God ( who was understood to be only the Father ).
…Would have eternally annihilated “creature” Christ.

Thus, to SDA’s, if Ellen White said that Christ was MUTABLE, subject to change, sin and loose His salvation…
…Even if Jesus Himself said that was IMPOSSIBLE the SDA’s will go with what Ellen White said.
…Because it is Ellen White that reflects the express will and purpose of God.

This is possibly the easiest way to turn the tables on a Seventh-day Adventist when they attempt to convert a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Christian…
…One just needs to have the basics of the Trinity down and ask them about Ellen’s teachings.
…Then open your ( or their ) Bible and ask what gives?
 
anodos said:
Lol…:rolleyes:
Its in chapter 19, “The Sabbath” (that is the only place I’m aware of). It quotes them dismissively as non-authoritive witnesses who didn’t cite scripture.

"Why did those who were turning from worship on the seventh day choose Sunday and not another day of the week? A major reason was that Christ was resurrected on Sunday; in fact, it was alleged that He had authorized worship on that day. “But, strange as it may seem, not one writer of the second and third centuries ever cited a single Bible verse as authority for the observance of Sunday in the place of the Sabbath. Neither Barnabas, nor Ignatius, nor Justin, nor Irenaeus, nor Tertullian, nor Clement of Rome, nor Clement of Alexandria, nor Origen, nor Cyprian, nor Victorinus, nor any other author who lived near to the time when Jesus lived knew of any such instruction from Jesus or from any part of the Bible.”
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Again, most ironic…the St Ignatius lived in the early 2nd century. There was no bible until around 400ad. But St Ignatius was a follower of St John. And here is what St Ignatius said

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

SDAs then must believe then that St John was a horrible teacher for St Ignatius to have been wrong.

And they follow someone who conjured up their dead husband…scripture warns us not to do so.

Leviticus 20
27 A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned to death, their blood is upon them.

Deuteronomy 18
9 When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the abhorrent practices of those nations. 10 No one shall be found among you who makes a son or daughter pass through fire, or who practices divination, or is a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts spells, or who consults ghosts or spirits, or who seeks oracles from the dead

Pork
 
Hoo(name removed by moderator)mie said:
Yes, indeed, the SDA church believes that health and education are paramount. If you look around, you will see elementary schools, high schools (academies), colleges and universities around the entire globe. You will also see many, MANY hospitals around the world because the church’s belief is that if persons are sick or in pain, first minister to their physical needs and they will be more open to one ministering to their spiritual needs. For that I am grateful to the SDA church.

It was not this thread that nearly sent me into orbit. 👍
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SDA fail to protect the most innocent and vulnerable by, supporting abortion.

SDA Guidelines in Abortion

And they perform abortions in their hospitals. :eek:

They are badly misled and follow a false prophet in Ellen White.

Pork
 
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