Who are the Prominent Folks in Traditional Catholicsm

[TrueLight]

Today, as I was cleaning I had Scott Hahn in the background on EWTN. I happen to love Scott Hahn.

I don’t know if the program was a repeat, but one of the books he was promoting was the Lamb’s Supper, which is on my list of must-have books.

However, even through my cleaning fog, all I kept hearing was “Vatican II” and how the new mass emphasized what was right. And how he stays away from politics in the Liturgy and that if all Catholics tooka step back, we would see the big picture and this is how God planned it.

I didn’t know Hahn felt so strongly about the OF. It was almost as if there was an underlying message that those interested in the EF didn’t get it.

So my question is which prominent folks identify themselves as traditionalists , whether they attend the EF or OF?

Also is there any traditional minded literature you would recommend or any sites?

Please don’t link to anyone who does not fully support the Magisterium.

Thanks.

 

[benedictgal]

Pope Benedict XVI/Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
Fr. John Zulsdorf (Fr. Z)
Fr. Timothy Finigan (The Hermeneutic of Continuity)
Fr. Benedict Groetchel
Raymond Cardinal Burke
Fr. Mitch Pacwa
The New Liturgical Movement
Antonio Cardinal Canizares Lloera
Francis Cardinal Arinze
Archbishop Charles Chaput
George Cardinal Pell
George Wiegel

 

[ZDHayden]

Hello! Even though I am by no means a traditionalist (some would accuse me of such, but I simply prefer reverent masses said in Latin, be they EF of OF and am staunchly conservative). I would recommend fisheaters as an excellent site. They themselves are loyal to the Magisterium, but are wary (although they do recognize as valid) the OF Mass and are critical of how some things are done in most “modern” parishes.

Can I give semi/pseudo-traditionalists for the people? if so:

I would recommend Michael Voris. I hesitate to place him as a figurehead because I doubt he is truly a traditionalist. He is conservative, yes; he prefers the TLM, yes. He is fiercely loyal to the Holy Father, yes. But, I think, once you strip away the surface, he is ultimately a conservative firebrand, which is precisely why I like listening to his talks.
I would also recommend Fr. Zuhlsdorf, who has an excellent blog here. He is far headier than Mr. Voris, and you will probably need some Latin to be able to understand quite a bit of what he comments on. Neither actively consider themselves traditionalists, but are both very tradition-minded.

PS: Dr. Peter Kreeft could beat Scott Hahn in a debate.

 

[nickybr38]

Hello! Even though I am by no means a traditionalist (some would accuse me of such, but I simply prefer reverent masses said in Latin, be they EF of OF and am staunchly conservative). I would recommend fisheaters as an excellent site. They themselves are loyal to the Magisterium, but are wary (although they do recognize as valid) the OF Mass and are critical of how some things are done in most “modern” parishes.

Can I give semi/pseudo-traditionalists for the people? if so:

I would recommend Michael Voris. I hesitate to place him as a figurehead because I doubt he is truly a traditionalist. He is conservative, yes; he prefers the TLM, yes. He is fiercely loyal to the Holy Father, yes. But, I think, once you strip away the surface, he is ultimately a conservative firebrand, which is precisely why I like listening to his talks.
I would also recommend Fr. Zuhlsdorf, who has an excellent blog here. He is far headier than Mr. Voris, and you will probably need some Latin to be able to understand quite a bit of what he comments on. Neither actively consider themselves traditionalists, but are both very tradition-minded.

PS: Dr. Peter Kreeft could beat Scott Hahn in a debate.

I don’t know about that! Kreeft never struck me as a very good debater.

 

[ZDHayden]

Pope Benedict XVI/Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
Fr. John Zulsdorf (Fr. Z)
Fr. Timothy Finigan (The Hermeneutic of Continuity)
Fr. Benedict Groetchel
Raymond Cardinal Burke
Fr. Mitch Pacwa
The New Liturgical Movement
Antonio Cardinal Canizares Lloera
Francis Cardinal Arinze
Archbishop Charles Chaput
George Cardinal Pell
George Wiegel

How could I have forgotten about Archbishop Chaput and Cardinal Burke? I think His Holiness is an obvious selection, however. I never really considered Fr. Pacwa as traditionalist, though I will say he IS very orthodox!

 

[Catholic87]

Father Groeschel is way to religiously indifferent, and he’s all for altar girls…not a very good traditionalist!

 

[PA650]

A recent prominent traditionalist would be Michael Davies:

I have been profoundly touched by the news of the death of Michael Davies. I had the good fortune to meet him several times and I found him as a man of deep faith and ready to embrace suffering. Ever since the Council he put all his energy into the service of the Faith and left us important publications especially about the Sacred Liturgy. Even though he suffered from the Church in many ways in his time, he always truly remained a man of the Church. He knew that the Lord founded His Church on the rock of St Peter and that the Faith can find its fullness and maturity only in union with the successor of St Peter. Therefore we can be confident that the Lord opened wide for him the gates of heaven. We commend his soul to the Lord’s mercy. - Cardinal Ratzinger

amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=michael+davies&sprefix=michael+davies

 

[archangel04]

Michael Voris is a great guy to listen to. Unfortunately most people only know him through the vortex where he shares his opinions and rants. But if you watch shows like “the one true faith” or other videos of apologetics and church teaching they are very good and cant really go wrong with it. Def worth the $10 a month. I never really knew scott hahn was against the TLM? can anyone shed some more light on that?

Fr. Pacwa is an amazing priest, he knows how to speak and is very well educated and very humble priest. Even though he knows his stuff, when his gues speaks he always listens as if he has never heard of that subject before, I respect him a lot.

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

I’m not much of one to offer advice here, but here’s what I do know.

Brent Bozell III (appears on various news programs on occasion) is a very respectable one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

Patrick Buchanan is one.
Paul Weyrich was one (deceased 3 years ago.)
Alan Keyes is a traditionalist I think.
Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas “might” be one.

Several of the prominent members of royal families in europe are traditionalists for obvious reasons ( you can’t very well crown a monarch with pedestrian liturgy speech, guitars etc).

Due to the fact that it is challenging and against the status quo to be “traditional” there has not been many people who prominently speak about it or admit that they are. That tide has gradually started to turn, but its not turned yet.

I believe that most of your support for the traditions of the church will be better served through reading the books by the Fathers of the Church, buy a benedictine or dominican Matins book and read all lessons by all the church fathers for the liturgical year, they’ve been used for centuries, they are timeless and totally pure.

Otherwise, Dr. Geoffrey Hull is at the top of my list.

Read his books “The Banished Heart” or “The Proto-History of the Roman Liturgical Reform” they will change your life.
Dr. Geoffrey is from Egypt, but strongly Latin rite, (descended from crusaders and merchants) and had much contact with Eastern christianity, which shaped some of his viewpoints.

The book “Treasures from the storeroom: medieval religion and the Eucharist” By Gary Macy is excellent.

Fr. Zuhlsdorf is excellent. (very sympathetic to the SSPX, in a very balanced way)

I did not know that those who attends the ordinary form (even if in latin) usually labeled as a traditionalist.

Scott Hahn and his wife have been “enemies” so to speak of traditionalists and home schoolers for 20 years. Thats nothing new. They promoted sexual education in some catholic schools at some point.

Cardinal Arinze, George Weigel, Cardinal Pell and some others mentioned above, have I believe been against the traditional 1962 and earlier form mass, but do support latin ordinary form.

P.S.

I think the term “fully support the Magisterium” is rather imprecise.
There are things which the magisterium has done and or supported which are not binding on all Catholics. The Berengarian oath of 1059, by its very existence, refutes the claim that the Holy Spirit could not allow the magisterium to promulgate theological blinders, nor allow such blunders to become part of the received teaching of the Church. The oath indeed was such a blunder, and it was so received.

Many medieval authors knew quite well the meaning of the Berengarian oath, and, when they found it to be theologically unacceptable, they changed that meaning. The appear to do so deliberately, and without qualm. Reason was accepted as playing an important role in accepting, molding, and, in a real sense, creating the tradition through continuous reinterpretation. The appropriation, modification, and even nullification, on reasonable grounds, of magisterial statements is than clearly one way in which theologians have dealt with official statements of Church teaching.

A better request might be “do not link to anyone not validly in communion with Rome” or “who rejects dogmas of the Church.”

 

[TrueLight]

Thank you everyone for the lists and links . I have a lot there to keep me happy.

Can I give semi/pseudo-traditionalists for the people?

Of course!

I would recommend Michael Voris. I hesitate to place him as a figurehead because I doubt he is truly a traditionalist. He is conservative, yes; he prefers the TLM, yes. He is fiercely loyal to the Holy Father, yes. But, I think, once you strip away the surface, he is ultimately a conservative firebrand, which is precisely why I like listening to his talks.

I had to look him up because I wasn’t sure who he was. Oh yeah, he’s the guy with the great hair.

I stumbled upon his videos very recently. Someone on CAF sent me a link. The one video I saw gave me the impression that he is extremely traditional.

I would also recommend Fr. Zuhlsdorf, who has an excellent blog here.

He is far headier than Mr. Voris, and you will probably need some Latin to be able to understand quite a bit of what he comments on. Neither actively consider themselves traditionalists, but are both very tradition-minded.

PS: Dr. Peter Kreeft could beat Scott Hahn in a debate.

I just started reading Father Z and I think he’s awesome. By the way, who is the guy in the yellow and red vestments in the left part of his header? For a while, I thought it was Father Z himself, but it isn’t right?

Latin is not a problem. I already purchased a book on ecclesiastical Latin and since I know some French and some Spanish, I may not completely understand but I sort of have a superficial understanding of some of the words.

I’m reading Peter Kreeft’s “Catholic Christianity”.

 

[TrueLight]

A recent prominent traditionalist would be Michael Davies:

amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=michael+davies&sprefix=michael+davies

Thanks for the link.

He is someone I heard about and wanted to read up more on. Did he always remain in communion with the Pope?

Pope Benedict XVI/Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
Fr. John Zulsdorf (Fr. Z)
Fr. Timothy Finigan (The Hermeneutic of Continuity)
Fr. Benedict Groetchel
Raymond Cardinal Burke
Fr. Mitch Pacwa
The New Liturgical Movement
Antonio Cardinal Canizares Lloera
Francis Cardinal Arinze
Archbishop Charles Chaput
George Cardinal Pell
George Wiegel

Awesome! It did tickle me that the Holy Father is at the top of the list. Why didn’t I think of that?

 

[TrueLight]

Michael Voris is a great guy to listen to. Unfortunately most people only know him through the vortex where he shares his opinions and rants. B

That’s exactly how I was introduced to him recently, but I still found him very interesting. I guess I like rants. They remind me of fire and brimstone sermons.

 

[TrueLight]

Patrick Buchanan is one.

Interesting. I watch him on Morning Joe sometimes.

I believe that most of your support for the traditions of the church will be better served through reading the books by the Fathers of the Church, buy a benedictine or dominican Matins book and read all lessons by all the church fathers for the liturgical year, they’ve been used for centuries, they are timeless and totally pure.

Otherwise, Dr. Geoffrey Hull is at the top of my list.

Read his books “The Banished Heart” or “The Proto-History of the Roman Liturgical Reform” they will change your life.
Dr. Geoffrey is from Egypt, but strongly Latin rite, (descended from crusaders and merchants) and had much contact with Eastern christianity, which shaped some of his viewpoints.

The book “Treasures from the storeroom: medieval religion and the Eucharist” By Gary Macy is excellent.

I have added those books you mentioned to my Amazon wish list. I am especially excited about reading the Hull books. Thanks for those recommendations.

Where can I purchase the matins and would you recommend a benedictine or dominican one for a beginner?

 

[laszlo]

I would like to add the pillars of the traditional movement:

FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, and smaller but as good the St John Cantius Fathers. Also the Musica Sacra organization.

And a note: In my mind and practice of the tradition living people are not to be honored. The pope and your bishop is exception, because they are your superiors, they are above you, you had to look up to them for guidance. The rest is soldier and could be honored only after he/she finished the good fight, before that there is always the possibility that he will fall.

 

[BertBlyleven]

Scott Hahn’s position regarding the EF (if what’s been said is true) does not surprise me. I’ve gotten the impression that he, like many other recent converts, would have not done so had it been for VII. Another thread entirely…

As for notable traditional Catholics, a few come to mind: every Saint cannonized within the past 2000 years (with a few 1900s exceptions).

 

[archangel04]

Thank you everyone for the lists and links . I have a lot there to keep me happy.

Of course!

I had to look him up because I wasn’t sure who he was. Oh yeah, he’s the guy with the great hair.

I stumbled upon his videos very recently. Someone on CAF sent me a link. The one video I saw gave me the impression that he is extremely traditional.

I just started reading Father Z and I think he’s awesome. **By the way, who is the guy in the yellow and red vestments in the left part of his header? **For a while, I thought it was Father Z himself, but it isn’t right?

That is Father Z. Just google his name and more pics of him will pop up.

 

[Revert_43]

So my question is which prominent folks identify themselves as traditionalists , whether they attend the EF or OF?

Also is there any traditional minded literature you would recommend or any sites?

Please don’t link to anyone who does not fully support the Magisterium.

Thanks.

Hi TrueLight, you may consider reading

he Spirit of the Liturgy by Benedict XVI
The Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina
The Mass: The Glory, the Mystery, the Tradition by Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl

One warning Spirit of the Liturgy is a deep book, you’ll need to take your time reading it.

I love the liturgy so I’m interested in this thread as well. I’ve only been to one EF mass so I really can’t state an opinion. But I, like you, am interested in staying close to magisterium. So with my limited understanding, I’d like to see the OF mass with the changes coming in Advent 2011 combined with the reverence that appears to be EF prevalent in the EF mass. Perhaps with some chants in English and Latin.

 

[ZDHayden]

Scott Hahn’s position regarding the EF (if what’s been said is true) does not surprise me. I’ve gotten the impression that he, like many other recent converts, would have not done so had it been for VII. Another thread entirely…

Hey! I’m a recent convert and probably would have leaped (not merely swam) across the Tiber years ago if I had been born in a different era! Ok, I will be quiet so as to not derail the thread too much.

 

[Melchior_1]

Scott Hahn’s position regarding the EF (if what’s been said is true) does not surprise me. I’ve gotten the impression that he, like many other recent converts, would have not done so had it been for VII.

The irony with this post is Bert Byleven was recently voted into the Hall of Fame in large part due to sabermetrics. Some sabermetrics are statistics which blend old stats with others to try and better quantify a pitcher’s effectiveness.

People still try and use pitcher’s wins and ERA as a means to measure pitchers. But with the rise sabermetrics, we now have people like Felix Hernandez winning the Cy Young while Sabathia sits there empty handed with over 20 wins. Wins and ERA are used in sabermetrics, but applied differently.

What does this have to do with the Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form, and what you said in your post? Some object to VII and the Missal of Paul VI, but it’s taking things and applying them differently in a valid fashion. Valid. Fashion.

Then again, some people (like me) prefer National League ball because the pitchers hit and there’s no DH. But then again you could say that the AL = Orthodox and the NL = Western Church,

Of course, this also gave me an excuse to talk about baseball, which is always awesome!

 

[Stylites]

Father Groeschel is way to religiously indifferent, and he’s all for altar girls…not a very good traditionalist!

Not sure how Father Groeschel is considered “way to religiously indifferent” or why female altar servers are such a bad thing. Perhaps the real traditionalists don’t sweat the small and unimportant things such as altar servers or guitars, while the modernists are those who get tripped over worshipping the worship rather than God.