Who are YOU to tell me I'm GOING TO HELL???!!!

[Trishie]

The last time I was visited by JWs and even after I had politely replied that ‘I have my own religion and I’m happy with that, and wish to leave it there’, one of them kept insisting forcefully, until I said, “Excuse me, I think you are being very rude! I explained my position, and you are insisting”! They both appeared astonished and looked at me wide-eyed as if to process the situation on a more human basis. Usually, I give JWs a smile, state my position and audibly say a quick blessing prayer for them, after offering a glass of cool water…though keeping them carefully outside the door.

They might have thought I wouldn’t get into heaven… which is a bind for them in view of Jesus’ remark that if you give a prophet a glass of water you receive a prophet’s reward.

 

[RC_Matt]

One question, did the doggie get his kibble?

Peace,

Gail

LOL, yes, despite the perils of the journey, the kibble quest was successful and its completion was met with much canine jubulation and congratulatory tail-wagging.

 

[mommyof4]

LOL, yes, despite the perils of the journey, the kibble quest was successful and its completion was met with much canine jubulation and congratulatory tail-wagging.

Well, that’s the important thing, isn’t it?

 

[RC_Matt]

Well, it’s not exactly the best way to warn people about hell, but hey, at least someone is warning mankind about hell. I mean, why is it that I hardly hear about hell anymore? People need to know that hell exists. The devil has done a fine job of making the world believe he’s just a joke, superstition, a non-existent entity. The world needs people who warn about the fires of hell - even if they don’t do in the most kindest of ways. The world needs to be reminded of sin and of hell, because it is losing its sense of sin.

On the other hand, frightening people to do what you want or else suffer the consequences is akin to bullying, I think. Still, you have to realize that eternity is a powerful thing on the mind - believers are so concerned for people, out of love, that they are willing to do anything, and think anything, for other people - even if it means shouting at people to get them to “wake up” and thinking this will help them. You gotta remember about that before you shout back at people. Don’t judge others - let the Lord take care of that for you. He’s willing to bear the burden of judging others, so to speak.

Plus, it’s better to bear crosses patiently and pray for people than it is to return a shout for a shout - a shout will scare people away, but a prayer and a smile will draw people to Jesus. Anyhow, that is enough from me. I feel like I’ve said too much. I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I apologize if I have. Ok, ok, I’m shutting up now.

Actually, there are a couple of salient points here. First, people who know absolutely nothing about you, yet consider themselves empowered to stop you on the street, or come to your home unannounced and uninvited, warning you that you can’t get to heaven unless you believe exactly what they tell you to believe, and do exactly what they tell you to do, are barking up the wrong tree (that’s in addition to being presumptive, arrogant, annoying and just plain rude). Jesus’ message was to love your neighbor as yourself. Virtually all of his teachings come from that message and it makes perfect sense, both for individuals and for mankind as a whole. It is in perfect harmony with the human conscience, which I think is one of the greatest proofs of the existence of God. The Catholic Church teaches that people, regardless of faith, who do their best to follow that message, be it explicitly or implicitly, are “saved,” and that of course makes perfect sense. Many of the finest, kindest and most charitable people I have ever known are not Catholics or even Christians. Are they GOING TO HELL (however that may be defined)? Is Mother Theresa not entitled to heaven because she didn’t follow sola scriptura, read “The Watchtower” or lean Joseph Smith’s required secret passwords and handshakes in the Mormon temple? Of course not; that kind of stuff defies any kind of common sense, is totally illogical and is just plain DUMB. Jesus reiterated this point over, and over, and over again, but lots of these so-called “devout Christians” just don’t get it. They are so wrapped-up in their own self-righteous ecclesial arrogance that they have completely lost sight of the simple message Christ tried to give us. In fact, their teachings are absolutely CONTRARY to that which was taught by Christ. I don’t know about you guys, but when someone banishes me OFF TO HELL, I don’t lose a whole lot of sleep over it and tend to wonder if perhaps that person is BRAIN DEAD.

The other point, the humor of which is usually not lost on me when they’re all out on the street on Saturdays, is that all these YOU’RE GOING TO HELL groups preach conflicting doctrine. Like which one do you choose? What happens if you choose the wrong one? Do ya gotta GO TO HELL? Lets see, God’s created billions upon billions of us over time, but the only ones he want to hang with in eternity are those few that follow the teachings of some dude from the 1800’s. And the rest of us billions and billions of “lost” souls? That must be one HUGE, GINORMOUS lake of fire down there!

As for me, I think I’ll just keep going to Mass and doing my best to do what JESUS said I should do. Makes sense to me anyway.

 

[Swan]

or the famous I’m right and your wrong bit. I just think it is silly.

You’re right, it is. It is also insulting to the listener. Unfortunately, it is also rampant in all faiths. I just saw this very statement (essentially) on another thread but the writer was Catholic. No one likes to be told they’re stupid. And suggesting that their faith is in error is doing that very thing.

 

[Doughts]

Do they expect you to drop your dog food and repent right there!

 

[Nickkname]

Actually, there are a couple of salient points here. First, people who know absolutely nothing about you, yet consider themselves empowered to stop you on the street, or come to your home unannounced and uninvited, warning you that you can’t get to heaven unless you believe exactly what they tell you to believe, and do exactly what they tell you to do, are barking up the wrong tree (that’s in addition to being presumptive, arrogant, annoying and just plain rude). Jesus’ message was to love your neighbor as yourself. Virtually all of his teachings come from that message and it makes perfect sense, both for individuals and for mankind as a whole. It is in perfect harmony with the human conscience, which I think is one of the greatest proofs of the existence of God. The Catholic Church teaches that people, regardless of faith, who do their best to follow that message, be it explicitly or implicitly, are “saved,” and that of course makes perfect sense. Many of the finest, kindest and most charitable people I have ever known are not Catholics or even Christians. Are they GOING TO HELL (however that may be defined)? Is Mother Theresa not entitled to heaven because she didn’t follow sola scriptura, read “The Watchtower” or lean Joseph Smith’s required secret passwords and handshakes in the Mormon temple? Of course not; that kind of stuff defies any kind of common sense, is totally illogical and is just plain DUMB. Jesus reiterated this point over, and over, and over again, but lots of these so-called “devout Christians” just don’t get it. They are so wrapped-up in their own self-righteous ecclesial arrogance that they have completely lost sight of the simple message Christ tried to give us. In fact, their teachings are absolutely CONTRARY to that which was taught by Christ. I don’t know about you guys, but when someone banishes me OFF TO HELL, I don’t lose a whole lot of sleep over it and tend to wonder if perhaps that person is BRAIN DEAD.

The other point, the humor of which is usually not lost on me when they’re all out on the street on Saturdays, is that all these YOU’RE GOING TO HELL groups preach conflicting doctrine. Like which one do you choose? What happens if you choose the wrong one? Do ya gotta GO TO HELL? Lets see, God’s created billions upon billions of us over time, but the only ones he want to hang with in eternity are those few that follow the teachings of some dude from the 1800’s. And the rest of us billions and billions of “lost” souls? That must be one HUGE, GINORMOUS lake of fire down there!
As for me, I think I’ll just keep going to Mass and doing my best to do what JESUS said I should do. Makes sense to me anyway.

“Entitled to heaven”? Eternal life is God’s free and undeserving gift to us. We are not entitled to it; we must earn it.

Furthermore, your argument is a fallacy. The same argument can be used against any religous preaching on hell, including the preaching of Christianity.

 

[thirdn6]

RC_Matt,

Seem like hell is chasing you, brother.
Wear that big cross on your neck!

 

[thirdn6]

I think those poor guys are just brainwashed, obedient to their respective churches. Unless they happen to be the ministers or pastors…which I doubt it

 

[RC_Matt]

“Entitled to heaven”? Eternal life is God’s free and undeserving gift to us. We are not entitled to it; we must earn it.

Dude, this comment does not make sense. I didn’t say anything about anybody being “entitled to eternal life.” My point was that DESPITE the holy lives led by people like Mother Theresa, many of these groups would say that those saints cannot gain heaven because they did not adhere to the man-made tenets of a specific religious group.

Furthermore, your argument is a fallacy. The same argument can be used against any religous preaching on hell, including the preaching of Christianity.

Sorry dude, but this comment doesn’t make sense either. To which “preaching of Christianity” are you referring? Calvinist, JW, LDS, Catholic? The eschatology of all four are different and, with the exception of the latter (HINT, HINT), are mutually exclusive. If you reread my first paragraph, or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you will better understand the point expressed.

 

[RC_Matt]

RC_Matt,

Seem like hell is chasing you, brother.
Wear that big cross on your neck!

LOL, yeah, well, it is really hot tonight anyway. Guess it’s time to clean the A/C filters and fire up those bad boys tomorrow ($$$$).

 

[Alverno]

“I finally went mini-ballistic on a Jehovah’s Witness last week.”

Well written and humorous. You should have a weekly column.

 

[RC_Matt]

Do they expect you to drop your dog food and repent right there!

Come to think of it, it was lunch time. Maybe she REALLY stopped me because she was hungry. Next time I’ll remember to be more charitable and offer her a bowl. Then I’ll tell her to STAY and I can walk away in peace!

 

[Nickkname]

Sorry dude, but this comment doesn’t make sense either. To which “preaching of Christianity” are you referring? Calvinist, JW, LDS, Catholic? The eschatology of all four are different and, with the exception of the latter (HINT, HINT), are mutually exclusive. If you reread my first paragraph, or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you will better understand the point expressed.

Thank you for correcting me on the holiness matter. God bless.

JW and LDS are not Christian. And yes I do read the Catechism. Please point me to the text which you are referring to. Thank you.

 

[Fergal]

Let’s just take three sentences of your post.

I finally went mini-ballistic on a Jehovah’s Witness last week.

Don’t these idiots realize how STUPID they sound?

What ever happened to “love your neighbor as yourself?” Seems to me like these people have totally missed the point.

Seems to me that maybe you (like myself at times before) have missed the point too. I know the harrassement is very difficult to take at times, but they will know who we are by our actions, not by labelling them idiots or stupid.

After reading the posts in the thread, I am amazed by the lack of love. You do not have to like, but you have to love irrespective of who the person is.

 

[elts1956]

I finally went mini-ballistic on a Jehovah’s Witness last week.

First, a little background information. Walking down the main shopping street in our community on a Saturday is like running the gauntlet. There are two moving nests of Jehovah’s Witnesses that lie in wait to ambush the passerby, shoving The Watchtower in your face and sternly warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there is Pentecostal Pastor Dude, who stands on the corner, in front of his little church, waving his Bible, trying to make eye contact, and warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what HE tells you to do. Then there is the inevitable pair of Mormon missionaries, warning you that you can’t get to heaven unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there are the Nazarenes, who go door-to-door, warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. I’ve been told by numerous Baptists that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I do what THEY tell me to do. I’ve been warned by two different Mormons, on this board alone, that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I become a Mormon.

So, last Saturday, lugging a 40 pound bag of dog food on my shoulder, I absent mindedly strolled past one of the JW traps. Woman jumps out in front of me, waving The Watchtower, and starts the pitch. Tried to be nice and tell her “not interested,” but she wouldn’t stop and warned me that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I listened to her. Not being in the mood to be banished off to the eternal lake of fire that day, I plopped down the sack of kibble and asked her, in a not-so-polite tone of voice, “what gives YOU the right to banish ME off to HELL???!!! You don’t know me, you don’t anything about me, so what gives you that right? Like, just who do you think you are? Etc., etc., etc.” In any case, she lowered her Watchtower and high-tailed it back to the nest. I don’t think that one will bother me again anyway.

Don’t these idiots realize how STUPID they sound? It is absolutely beyond my comprehension how anybody with a marginally functional cerebral cortex can subscribe to this kind of nonsense. And it’s not just the connoisseurs of “Elvis painted on velvet” and the like either. I’ve known some very respectable and well educated people who firmly believe that everybody BURNS IN HELL, except those who believe and practice as they do. Like the qualification for heaven is that one strictly follows a specific set of tenets. In addition to totally defying common sense, it’s precisely the sort of thing Jesus warned us AGAINST. What ever happened to “love your neighbor as yourself?” Seems to me like these people have totally missed the point.

Sometimes just saying I’M CATHOLIC! makes them high tail it. I have had some come to my door, not many as I live in the back of beyond, and if I say, sorry but I am Catholic, have a nice day, they disappear in a puff of smoke.

 

[a_priori]

Sometimes we as Christians just need to get over ourselves and realize this is a person for whom Christ died. They are not fodder for our theological triumphalism. Disengaging from them is easy. Making a big deal out of it in the process is unseemly. We are called to kindness and humility.

I guess being right just feels so darn good it’s hard not to strut? But that misses the point entirely.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

The catholic church has never taught of one human being going to hell. it knows it is a mystery as to how infinite justice and infinite mercy blends together in God’s judgment. Even the worst person ever could repent before expiring under the influence of grace. These others mean well but are very ignorant.

 

[Nickkname]

The catholic church has never taught of one human being going to hell. it knows it is a mystery as to how infinite justice and infinite mercy blends together in God’s judgment. Even the worst person ever could repent before expiring under the influence of grace. These others mean well but are very ignorant.

Do you mean that men do not go to hell at all or that men are not destined to go to hell? If the former, I object: hell is a Catholic doctrine. If the latter, I agree: God damns no one to hell - he wills everyone to be saved. For a clear understanding of what I mean, I present to you the Church’s teaching on hell, from the Catechism:

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."616

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."617

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:619

Father, accept this offering

from your whole family.

Grant us your peace in this life,

save us from final damnation,

and count us among those you have chosen.620

 

[RC_Matt]

Let’s just take three sentences of your post.

Seems to me that maybe you (like myself at times before) have missed the point too. I know the harrassement is very difficult to take at times, but they will know who we are by our actions, not by labelling them idiots or stupid.

After reading the posts in the thread, I am amazed by the lack of love. You do not have to like, but you have to love irrespective of who the person is.

Dia dhuit a Fearghál!

Loving the human individual is of course necessary and proper. However, that does not mean that one must passively accept intrusively aggressive approaches by people spewing blatant heresy; and particularly when these people persist in this activity after one has already politely declined to listen to the message, and particularly when some of these people, like the Mormons, use institutionalized deceptive tactics to entice others to join them in their heresy. When possible, I do choose to ignore or avoid them; however, other than being a waste of time, I don’t see anything really wrong with calling them on it either – within reason. It is, after all, they who have initiated the contact, refused a genteel rebuff and persisted in proselytizing. This sort of thing isn’t nearly as common in Éire as it is here (and I do know that from much personal experience), however constantly being told you’re gonna hangout for eternity with the devil and minions gets pretty old around here.

I guess we’ll have agree to disagree, but believing stuff like you can’t enter into God’s presence unless you know the secret passwords and handshakes is still pretty GOOFY in my book……

Slán,
Mata