Who Baptized John the Baptist?

[brb3]

Does church teach Mary was Baptized in water ?

No, it does not. MARY fully graced from her conception. But, John too was fully graced, IN THE WOMB, baptized in his mom Elizabeth 's maternal amniotic fluid ( water).

MAYBE, Mary was Baptized too … same way John was !

 

[TimothyH]

Does church teach Mary was Baptized in water ?

No, it does not. MARY fully graced from her conception. But, John too was fully graced, IN THE WOMB, baptized in his mom Elizabeth 's maternal amniotic fluid ( water).

MAYBE, Mary was Baptized too … same way John was !

BRB has it right.

John was given the equivalent of baptism in his mother’s womb, when the voice of Mary came to Elizabeth’s ears and John lept for joy. This was John’s justification and sanctification, which was acomplished by the power of Jesus through the voice of Mary, prior to John’s birth.

Patrick is also correct. The ritual immersion which was taking place was a purification bath called a Mikveh. Jews still practice it. One confesses sin and is ritually purified by immersion in “Living” AKA running water.

-Tim-

 

[brb3]

BRB has it right.

John was given the equivalent of baptism in his mother’s womb, when the voice of Mary came to Elizabeth’s ears and John lept for joy. This was John’s justification and sanctification, which was acomplished by the power of Jesus through the voice of Mary, prior to John’s birth.

Patrick is also correct. The ritual immersion which was taking place was a purification bath called a Mikveh. Jews still practice it. One confesses sin and is ritually purified by immersion in “Living” AKA running water.

-Tim-

Testify to the truth brother Tim !!!

Occasionally I stumble on a truth …

 

[PJM]

=brb3;10278713]Does church teach Mary was Baptized in water ?

No, it does not. MARY fully graced from her conception. But, John too was fully graced, IN THE WOMB, baptized in his mom Elizabeth 's maternal amniotic fluid ( water).

MAYBE, Mary was Baptized too … same way John was !

NO she was not

Mary HAD NO NEED TO BE BAPTIZED and therefore was not.

 

[brb3]

NO she was not

Mary HAD NO NEED TO BE BAPTIZED and therefore was not.

But, maybe … it was FITTING, that she be ! From my inquires on this topic, I’m told we don’t know for sure .

…so, I’m curious where you got your dogmatic NO answer ?

Regarding John, he too we don’t know for sure, but he did receive HS, while SUBMERGED in maternal water. Would you not see/appreciate the beauty of that confirmation he received ?

 

[dee_burk]

Does church teach Mary was Baptized in water ?

No, it does not. MARY fully graced from her conception. But, John too was fully graced, IN THE WOMB, baptized in his mom Elizabeth 's maternal amniotic fluid ( water).

MAYBE, Mary was Baptized too … same way John was !

:thumbsup:this was what i was about to enter until i saw brb3 already had it…

 

[Evan]

But, maybe … it was FITTING, that she be ! From my inquires on this topic, I’m told we don’t know for sure .

…so, I’m curious where you got your dogmatic NO answer ?

Regarding John, he too we don’t know for sure, but he did receive HS, while SUBMERGED in maternal water. Would you not see/appreciate the beauty of that confirmation he received ?

Amniotic Fluid is not water. It is not relevant to Baptism (the sacrament).

This is a very novel notion and no historical precedent. It is not found prior to the start of the evangelical movement. Nowhere in Scripture is natural birth referred to as being born “of water” - this is a desperate interpretation designed to deny the simple truth of Baptism.

 

[PJM]

=brb3;10278973]But, maybe … it was FITTING, that she be ! From my inquires on this topic, I’m told we don’t know for sure .

…so, I’m curious where you got your dogmatic NO answer ?

Regarding John, he too we don’t know for sure, but he did receive HS, while SUBMERGED in maternal water. Would you not see/appreciate the beauty of that confirmation he received ?

1st. Mary Please check out this site.

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/mary/general-information/the-four-marian-dogmas/

There are four Infallible DOGMA"S concerning Mary; eaach of then in a slightly difffernt manner attest to wht what I shared HAS TO BE true. If you have futher questins please contact me and we can discuss them. I don’t want to derail this String

as far a John goes we can know that he was martyred and therefore RECEIVED 'baptism in Blood"

Here’s the proof:

Matthew 14:10 “And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison”.

**Mark 6:16 **“Which Herod hearing, said: John whom I beheaded, he is risen again from the dead”

From our Catholic Catechism:

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

I hope this resolves your uncertanities?

God Bless you,
pat/PJM

 

[brb3]

1st. Mary Please check out this site.

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/mary/general-information/the-four-marian-dogmas/

There are four Infallible DOGMA"S concerning Mary; eaach of then in a slightly difffernt manner attest to wht what I shared HAS TO BE true. If you have futher questins please contact me and we can discuss them. I don’t want to derail this String

as far a John goes we can know that he was martyred and therefore RECEIVED 'baptism in Blood"

Here’s the proof:

Matthew 14:10 “And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison”.

**Mark 6:16 **“Which Herod hearing, said: John whom I beheaded, he is risen again from the dead”

From our Catholic Catechism:

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

I hope this resolves your uncertanities?

God Bless you,
pat/PJM

On 1258, …the operative words “w/o having received Baptism” …

so, does it really apply to John ? Recall John suggested that Christ Baptize him, and he didn’t. Maybe Christ knew he already had, in the womb ???
Or, maybe Christ knew John’s would later come by blood, as you believe …

But, as Peter taught, water baptism is our APPEAL to God to make us clean of all sin, to Fully Grace us. Now, since John was FILLED WITH HS, while UNDER WATER in mom Elizabeth, …I think I have every right to claim he was not in need of a second baptism by Christ, which Christ didn’t, knowing John was FULLY GRACED ALREADY !!

We both know his parents had already DEDICATED JOHN TO THE LORD. Thus, they were giving full consent to the Lord regarding John, and his FETAL baptism…brought about by the appearing of the Mother of the Lord to Elizabeth. John rejoiced upon Mary’s arrival !
Has there ever been such an event before …our first FETAL Baptism, effected by HS, on Mary’s account.

Yes, speculation on my part… but, reasoned speculation!

 

[Evan]

Please note that the requirement for Baptism did not come about until after the Resurrection. So, as Hebrew people, obeying the commandments of God, John and Mary both fell under the old covenant with Moses and the Children of Abraham.

Moses and Elijah were never baptized, yet the Church regards them as Saints.

 

[brb3]

Please note that the requirement for Baptism did not come about until after the Resurrection. So, as Hebrew people, obeying the commandments of God, John and Mary both fell under the old covenant with Moses and the Children of Abraham.

Moses and Elijah were never baptized, yet the Church regards them as Saints.

Yes, they had OT circumcision, for the males …what was requirement for women ?

Now, Trinitarian water baptism became the Norm on that first Pentecost / birth of NT Church.

 

[brb3]

Which means Mary & John’s receipt of HS and their Fully Graced status is beyond/outside our NT norms. John never knew the Church, but Mary did.

So, PJM …

WE ARE BOTH WRONG !

 

[Evan]

Yes, they had OT circumcision, for the males …what was requirement for women ?

Now, Trinitarian water baptism became the Norm on that first Pentecost / birth of NT Church.

That was one of the advantages of the new Israel. Women and men were equally qualified to sacramentally enter into the Church covenant.

In OT religion women were associated with a husband or parents. There was no covenantal sign.

 

[patrick457]

BRB has it right.

John was given the equivalent of baptism in his mother’s womb, when the voice of Mary came to Elizabeth’s ears and John lept for joy. This was John’s justification and sanctification, which was acomplished by the power of Jesus through the voice of Mary, prior to John’s birth.

Patrick is also correct. The ritual immersion which was taking place was a purification bath called a Mikveh. Jews still practice it. One confesses sin and is ritually purified by immersion in “Living” AKA running water.

-Tim-

Yes. Miqveh (“a collection”) BTW refers to the pool; the practice of full-body immersion itself is called tevilah. Generally speaking you immerse yourself in said pool whenever you become ritually unclean due to some reason or other (menstruation and other discharge of bodily fluids, childbirth, skin diseases, contact with a corpse or a grave, etc.). Immersion could also be performed during certain occasions (like the eve of Sabbath and Yom Kippur) as a means to purify oneself.

The general requirement for a miqveh is that they must have enough water to cover a single person, and that the water must be ‘living’ water (water freely running from a source: water from natural springs or wells, rainwater, snow, ice, and hail are all valid) as opposed to ‘drawn’ water.

Miqvaoth, as mentioned, could be found everywhere: some might have a communal miqveh, others (especially the wealthy or the priests) might have one in their house. Considering that no unclean person could enter the Temple area, there are also a lot of such pools in Jerusalem, especially in the vicinity of the Temple Mount.

http://www.davidwhiting.org/.a/6a00e552737cff8833017c354ef8f9970b-450wi
Miqveh (Magdala)

http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/13717/wm/pd2637269.jpg

Miqveh (Qumran)

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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Miqvaot near the Temple (Jerusalem)


Miqveh (Bat Ayin)

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/images/mikveh01xy1.jpg
Miqveh Cave (Ein-Gedi)

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Miqveh (Herodium)

 

[1roman]

i suggest to listen to the teaching of The Mikveh - Ep. 1 - By Michael Rood

this explains the Mikveh is the activity that john ws performing, it was not a new thing-- and mary was familiar with it–

he also will talk about heb 6;1, leaving behind the ect etc etc

The writer of “The Epistle to the Messianic Hebrews” challenges the believers to leave behind the foundational principles of faith in Messiah, and to press on to maturity.

Once the foundations of the faith have been laid firmly and the “milk” of the word has strengthened us, it is time for some real meat. One of the foundations of faith listed in Hebrews is “the doctrine of baptisms” (plural), yet in the Christian world very little is known about baptism. What is known is filtered through a Greek mind-set and ignorance of the Hebrew practice of the “mikveh” from which “baptism” is loosely translated.
youtu.be/vL90nL3n7fs

 

[PJM]

=brb3;10279802]Yes, they had OT circumcision, for the males …what was requirement for women ?

Now, Trinitarian water baptism became the Norm on that first Pentecost / birth of NT Church.

Women were ASSUMED and Included through the husband or father to be included in the OT Covenant.

 

[1roman]

this is improperly taught in the catholic church, as this thread demenstrates

mik·vah (mkv, mk-vä)

n. pl. mik·voth or mik·vot (-vt) or mik·vos (-vs)

1. A ritual purification bath taken by Jews on certain occasions, as before the Sabbath or after menstruation or ejaculation.
2. A building, room, or fixture in which this bath takes place.
   [Hebrew miqwâ, reservoir or miqwe, collection (of water), immersion pool, both from qwâ, to collect; see qbw in Semitic roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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mikvah, mikveh [mikˈvɑ ˈmikvə]
n
(Non-Christian Religions / Judaism)

*** Judaism a pool used esp by women for ritual purification after their monthly period

= so mary was mikveh or baptised***

[from Hebrew]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Orthodox Gap Year Program

ThesaurusLegend:

Synonyms Related Words Antonyms

Noun 1. mikvah - (Hebrew) a ritual purification and cleansing bath that Orthodox Jews take on certain occasions

(as before Sabbath or after menstruation) such as Mary=was mikvah

bath - you soak and wash your body in a bathtub; “he has a good bath every morning”
Judaism - the monotheistic religion of the Jews having its spiritual and ethical principles embodied chiefly in the Torah and in the Talmud

 

[1roman]

The writer of “The Epistle to the Messianic Hebrews” challenges the believers to leave behind the foundational principles of faith in Messiah, and to press on to maturity. Once the foundations of the faith have been laid firmly and the “milk” of the word has strengthened us, it is time for some real meat. One of the foundations of faith listed in Hebrews is “the doctrine of baptisms” (plural), yet in the Christian world very little is known about baptism. What is known is filtered through a Greek mind-set and ignorance of the Hebrew practice of the “mikveh” from which “baptism” is loosely translated.

John the Baptist was not a Baptist, nor was his name John—

his name was Yohannan ben Zechariah, the son of an Aaronic priest. He did not invent some “new thing”,

but was performing that of which every Israelite was intimately familiar—yet of which the average Christian is clueless.

He was “mikveh-ing” Israelites in the Jordan River when he first met the promised Messiah, Yahshua.

Every Israelite understood what Yochannan was doing in the Jordan, but the religious leaders could not understand why he was performing the Mikveh outside of their authorized religious system.

Join Michael Rood on the banks of the beautiful Jordan River near his home in Israel as he opens the believer’s eyes to the depths of

“The Mikveh - the Doctrine of Baptisms”.

Once this foundation of the faith is understood, we may then move on to maturity.

youtu.be/sRDaP65iUG8

 

[1protestant]

thanks – it is interesting to see the invention of religious catholic belief –

some times faith in santa claus is the same as religious belief

where the simple truth of the doing what the torah required

The writer of “The Epistle to the Messianic Hebrews” challenges the believers to leave behind the foundational principles of faith in Messiah,

and to press on to maturity.

Once the foundations of the faith have been laid firmly and the “milk” of the word has strengthened us, it is time for some real meat.

One of the foundations of faith listed in Hebrews is “the doctrine of baptisms” (plural), yet in the Christian world very little is known about baptism.

What is known is filtered through a Greek mind-set and ignorance of the Hebrew practice of the “mikveh” from which “baptism” is loosely translated.

John the Baptist was not a Baptist, nor was his name John—

his name was Yohannan ben Zechariah, the son of an Aaronic priest. He did not invent some “new thing”,

but was performing that of which every Israelite was intimately familiar—

yet of which the average Christian is clueless.

He was “mikveh-ing” Israelites in the Jordan River when he first met the promised Messiah, Yahshua.

Every Israelite understood what Yochannan was doing in the Jordan, but the religious leaders could not understand why he was performing the Mikveh outside of their authorized religious system.

Join Rood on the banks of the beautiful Jordan River near his home in Israel as he opens the believer’s eyes to the depths of

“The Mikveh - the Doctrine of Baptisms”. Once this foundation of the faith is understood, we may then move on to maturity.

 

[Rozell1]

In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus’ commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.