Who can I defer to in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?

[Mikeoffaith]

Truth is found in the scriptures. Jesus said (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19; John 6:35, 48 & 51-54) that the bread was his body. Catholics interpret this to be that the bread actually becomes the body of Christ once eaten (Transubstantiation.)

Because Jesus gave his body for us on the cross, Protestants believe that Jesus is using the bread and wine to explain the significance of what he was about to do on the cross and are memorials of Christ’s sacrifice. People eat bread to satisfy physical hunger and to sustain physical life. We can satisfy spiritual hunger and sustain spiritual life only by a right relationship with Jesus Christ. No wonder he called himself the bread of life. But bread must be eaten to sustain life, and Christ must beinvited into our daily walk to sustain spiritual life.

Please be careful about lumping all non-Catholics in the Protestant camp. There are many who claim to be Protestant, but don’t follow the teachings of the bible. Protestants are defined as those who follow the teachings of the bible.

Agreed Chris. All non-Roman Catholics cannot be lumped into the Protestant bucket. But be careful Chris, even though Lutherans and Episcopalians get lumped into that bucket, we do indeed believe in the Real Presence.

I also don’t think that defining Protestants as those who follow the teachings of the Bible is a very good way of defining what it is or means to be a Protestant. If that is the definition you wish to use, then you would also have to lump our Roman Catholic and Orthodox brethren in that same definition and I’m certain you do not. I would also say further that there are groups who claim to be Protestants who do not follow the teachings of the Bible. There are some of them out there that despite their claims of following the teachings of the Bible wouldn’t recognize the Gospel if it jumped up and bit them.

 

[Frost]

I agree with Luther and I agree with you regarding protestantism. That was one of the reasons why I became catholic. Thanks for your feedback friend.

I think Lutherans and Catholics have more in common than we think. Still, there are at least two things which is hard to accept for a Lutheran: Papal infallibility and the sinlessness of Mary. On the other hand, I don’t think the question of Mary’s sinlessness was in Luther’s view, he had a high regard for the Mother of God.

 

[Rightlydivide]

RD you said:

Catholicism (a Christian faith) - is completely true as far as I am concerned. For you, Protestantism (a Christian faith) - is completely true - correct?

Let’s flip it: For you either Catholicism is completely false or Christianity is true. Is that saying too much?

Yes. Its saying too much and making a distinction I did not make or intend to make until it got pedantic. And I did not make it pedantic in my estimation…
Back to the point
Thanks. It seemed like many of your posts were of the “the Catholic Church is the true Church” and if the Catholic Church were in error, yes I know you do not think it is, then none of it is true type variety.
Just checking, if you are not someone who advocates that, no biggie.
Why does it matter? Because no one on this board directs more posts towards us and I was attempting to further understand your perspective. Thats all.

 

[Rightlydivide]

RD you said:

Catholicism (a Christian faith) - is completely true as far as I am concerned. For you, Protestantism (a Christian faith) - is completely true - correct?

Let’s flip it: For you either Catholicism is completely false or Christianity is true. Is that saying too much?

Protestantism is a term that refers to anyone that is not Catholic, Orthodox or a similiar group. As it has been repeatedly stated, attempting to lump unlike groups for anything other than a very general concept is not a good idea. It stacks the deck. Of course there is not a general Protestant authority because there is not a Protestant Church. It is attempting to make a point by defining characteristics in a way to get a desired answer.
Its like saying who is the authority I can ask “non-Protestants” (ie Mormons, Christian Scientists, Unitarians, Catholics, Orthodox etc) to get a unifed answer on the specific role of the Papacy. There is no unifying authority for these non-Protestant groups because the intial question, like the OP, is flawed.
Its like saying Democrats and non-Democrats. And somehow expecting that Libertarians, Republicans, the Green Party and all the other groups should somehow agree simply because they are not Democrats.
This distinction has been repeatedly pointed out on many threads, so I while I attempt to be nice and use terms like Protestant that hardly anyone uses accept the census and Catholics and church historians…it does have its limitations.
But you know what you are doing.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Come on RD, both catholics and protestants are Christians - right???

So…to go back to what you said…you are now acknowledging that Catholic and Christianity are not one and the same? That the terms have different uses?
The point was never that Catholic and Christians are both Christians, you know that.

 

[pablope]

**Truth is found in the scriptures. **Jesus said (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19; John 6:35, 48 & 51-54) that the bread was his body. Catholics interpret this to be that the bread actually becomes the body of Christ once eaten (Transubstantiation.)

Because Jesus gave his body for us on the cross, Protestants believe that Jesus is using the bread and wine to explain the significance of what he was about to do on the cross and are memorials of Christ’s sacrifice. People eat bread to satisfy physical hunger and to sustain physical life. We can satisfy spiritual hunger and sustain spiritual life only by a right relationship with Jesus Christ. No wonder he called himself the bread of life. But bread must be eaten to sustain life, and Christ must beinvited into our daily walk to sustain spiritual life.

Please be careful about lumping all non-Catholics in the Protestant camp. There are many who claim to be Protestant, but don’t follow the teachings of the bible. Protestants are defined as those who follow the teachings of the bible.

I think all with agree with your first sentence. Since it is the Word of God, there are no lies in it.

But look at 1 Tim 3: 15:

15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Which church? Which church was in existence when this epistle was written?

 

[Todd520]

True, but in the end we defer to the authority of the CC, and if we want to continue to reject, say, the teaching of the Eucharist, we can leave, but we are expected to embrace the teaching of the CC regarding the Eucharist if we want to belong to the CC. I was just looking for the same sort of universal authority in the protestant sphere.

Yes, this issue is really resolved in my mind for these non-conforming Catholics, who ever they are; I have yet to meet a catholic who rejects the Eucharistic teaching of the CC, but that is their right of course. Defer to the church founded by God or find another church that conforms to your beliefs - would be my answer to those non-conforming Catholics. I respect their rights to believe their interpretation over the interpretation of the church founded by Jesus.

It is essential to me (I respect your right to believe the opposite) - that we as Christians agree vis-a-vis the Eucharist because there can be only one truth regarding the Eucharist for the simple fact that the spirit of truth does not guide us into conflicting truths, (truth is not relative in this case) - and I believe it is important to Jesus that we have access to the truth vis-a-vis His Body and Blood for Jesus said:

Well, that is why I started this thread; I was hoping to find that answer, but so far, no luck.

Joe,
I’m claiming that about 50% of Catholics don’t believe in transubstantiation based on PEW research, for the USA.

Why do you think so many Catholics don’t bow to the authority of the RCC on the Eucharist and on contraception, for example? They appear to disagree but refuse to find another Christian denomination

 

[joe370]

=Todd520;7232455]Joe,
I’m claiming that about 50% of Catholics don’t believe in transubstantiation based on PEW research, for the USA.

Like I said, show me proof that a practicing catholic claims not to believe in transubstantiation and I will ask that person why he/she continues to go to the CC. Claiming to belong to the CC and yet disbelieving the teachings of the CC is total hypocrisy and he/she should attempt to find a church that conforms to their beliefs. If they don’t tell the leaders of the CC that they don’t believe, you can’t blame the leaders of the CC; they cannot read minds.

Why do you think so many Catholics don’t bow to the authority of the RCC on the Eucharist and on contraception, for example? They appear to disagree but refuse to find another Christian denomination.

You saying it does not make it so. Show me proof!!! I know of no one in the CC that says: I don’t believe in the catholic Eucharistic teaching and I admit that fact to the leaders of the CC. Again, if they make this claim to the leaders of the CC they will be asked to leave, rightfully so.

If I claim to believe in the transubstantiation of the CC, and admit it to the church to which you belong, can I still attend your church?

Todd, you defer to no authority - correct, other than your bible via private interpretation? In other words, in the end, it is your interpretation of your bible that wins out - correct?

 

[joe370]

;7232169]So…to go back to what you said…you are now acknowledging that Catholic and Christianity are not one and the same?

You got that from this:

Come on RD, both catholics and protestants are Christians - right???

RD, I believe that protestants are Christians; catholics are Christians; To be a catholic is to be a Christian; to be a protestant is to be a Christian; catholic and Christian are synonymous; protestant and Christian are synonymous; The name of my church is catholic, and Christian is the name of the people that go to the CC.

And I have surmised that the answer to the OP is - no one, for each and every protestant is his/her own authority; they defer or “bow” to no church authority other than themselves via private interpretation.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Like I said, show me proof that a practicing catholic claims not to believe in transubstantiation and I will ask that person why he/she continues to go to the CC. Claiming to belong to the CC and yet disbelieving the teachings of the CC is total hypocrisy and he/she should attempt to find a church that conforms to their beliefs. If they don’t tell the leaders of the CC that they don’t believe, you can’t blame the leaders of the CC; they cannot read minds.

I thought that the PEW research pole said that they didn’t understand it, not that they didn’t believe it.

 

[Dokimas]

Is the bread at the Lord’s table only bread, or is it the Body of Christ? Zwingli will tell you one thing; Luther, another, and these were the very first leaders of the reformed church that spearhead the reformation. To whom can I defer in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?

There’s no answer to this question.

However, aren’t we to be personally persuaded in our hearts of what God is saying to each of us? AND aren’t we to be open enough to have our wrong understandings changed as God sends into our lives people with correct understandings?

 

[Rightlydivide]

;And I have surmised that the answer to the OP is - no one, for each and every protestant is his/her own authority; they defer or “bow” to no church authority other than themselves via private interpretation.

Each and every Protestant? That must have taken quite a bit of time to find that out…

 

[joe370]

joe370;7233499:

Each and every Protestant? That must have taken quite a bit of time to find that out…

Am I wrong? If I am I will be the first to say: I was wrong!!!

 

[joe370]

There’s no answer to this question.

However, aren’t we to be personally persuaded in our hearts of what God is saying to each of us? AND aren’t we to be open enough to have our wrong understandings changed as God sends into our lives people with correct understandings?

Absolutely!!! But in the end, those people/leaders, for me, belong to the CC founded by Jesus Christ. I defer to the authority of the CC when I am not sure about something.

Why should I not want to defer to the authority of the Catholic Church, if in fact the church was founded by God?

Paul said to Christians (Christians just like you and me) - the following:

Obey your leaders and submit to their authority… Why, if the bible is the Christians only authority via private interpretation?

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;7234398:

Am I wrong? If I am I will be the first to say: I was wrong!!!

Well, where did you get your information? Perhaps there is a source that says each and every Protestant does not submit to a church authority…I am sure you have a reason for saying what you did…so what was the reason?

 

[joe370]

Chris_Fuller you said:

Please be careful about lumping all non-Catholics in the Protestant camp. There are many who claim to be Protestant, but don’t follow the teachings of the bible. Protestants are defined as those who follow the teachings of the bible.

Who was entrusted with the authority to decide who is correctly following the teachings found in the bible and who is not?

 

[joe370]

joe370;7234464:

Well, where did you get your information? Perhaps there is a source that says each and every Protestant does not submit to a church authority…I am sure you have a reason for saying what you did…so what was the reason?

You tell me how sola scriptura works? When I said everyone, I was just assuming that every non-Catholic believes in private interpretation, with a few exceptions. I did not mean literally every single person. I am clearly still ignorant when it comes to Sola scriptura, for the simple fact that when I define it, someone tells me that I am wrong, so maybe you could break it down for me so that I can finally know with certainty, the meaning of SS???

Thanks…

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;7234495:

You tell me how sola scriptura works? When I said everyone, I was just assuming that every non-Catholic believes in private interpretation, with a few exceptions. I did not mean literally every single person. I am clearly still ignorant when it comes to Sola scriptura, for the simple fact that when I define it, someone tells me that I am wrong, so maybe you could break it down for me so that I can finally know with certainty, the meaning of SS???

Thanks…

Joe
You know that a large group of Protestants are not Sola Scriptura.
But we are talking about church authority. You said that no Protestant defers to church authority.
Why did you say that?

 

[Rightlydivide]

Joe
When you on the same thread say that no Protestant defers to church authority but also say

It seems to me that each protestant church simply defers to their respective church leadership for the answer to the question just as Christians belonging to the CC do

it poses a problem.
These two statements are contradictory.

 

[joe370]

joe370;7234520:

Joe
You know that a large group of Protestants are not Sola Scriptura.
But we are talking about church authority. You said that no Protestant defers to church authority.
Why did you say that?

So, some protestants do defer to the authority of their church, just as catholics do?

RD, a little help friend: I am clearly still ignorant when it comes to Sola scriptura, for the simple fact that when I define it, someone tells me that I am wrong, so maybe you could break it down for me so that I can finally know with certainty, the meaning of SS???