Who can I defer to in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?

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Rightlydivide said:
How is the Protestant religion devoid of the Holy Spirit but Protestants have the Holy Spirit? Can you clarify please?
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Every Christian regardless of denomination, once baptized, is endowed with the holy spirit. With that said: does the holy spirit guide one church to believe one thing and another church to believe the polar opposite? Of course not…Either the HS is guiding the church founded by Christ, into all truth, or the HS is NOT guiding any one church at all. The HS is called the spirit of truth for a reason in my opinion…
 
pablope said:
Jon,

From your post/s, it looks like the difference between your Lutheranism and Catholicism regarding the Eucharist is the theology behind the belief in the Real Prensence, in that how it is achieved?
And the difference in the term given to it, but if one goes back to basics, devoid of name, it is basically the same-Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Do you also believe in the soul and divinity as part of the Real Presence?
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Hi pablope,
In the first paragraph, I agree. I’m not sure about the second. Are you speaking of terms as in Eucharist? If so, no. We use a number of different terms: Holy Communion, Sacrament of the Altar, Lord’s Supper, and Eucharist, all pretty much interchangeable.

You know, we generally don’t use the language “soul and divinity”, but I personally don’t have a problem with it. Christ is, afterall, more than flesh and blood. Clearly, his divinity and soul (both if we are to believe in the Incarnation) are part of His presence.

Jon
 
JRKH said:
This comment is incorrect on two levels.
First, there is no such thing as “The Protestant Religion”. There is a group of faith communities that fall under the general heading of “Protestant”.
Secoindly, the Catholic Church recognizes within these various protestant communities actions of sanctification and Truth that are only possible in the presence of the Holy Spirit. I call your attention to para 819 of the Catholic Church Catachism.
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
Therefore it is incorrect for a catholic to say that protestant faith communities are “devoid” of the Holy Spirit.

That said, this thread has demonstrated that there is no clearly defined “authority” within the protestant community capable of providing a specific and unified answer to the OP’s question.

Peace
James
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Thank you, James.

And you are correct, as Protestant is a general category of various communions with various roots (all the early ones from the Catholic Church directly), one could not expect this to be the case.

Jon
 
joe370 said:
Every Christian regardless of denomination, once baptized, is endowed with the holy spirit. With that said: does the holy spirit guide one church to believe one thing and another church to believe the polar opposite? Of course not…Either the HS is guiding the church founded by Christ, into all truth, or the HS is NOT guiding any one church at all. The HS is called the spirit of truth for a reason in my opinion…
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So for you, either Catholicism is completely true or Christianity is false? Is that saying too much?
Thanks
 
JonNC said:
Hi pablope,
In the first paragraph, I agree. I’m not sure about the second. Are you speaking of terms as in Eucharist? If so, no. We use a number of different terms: Holy Communion, Sacrament of the Altar, Lord’s Supper, and Eucharist, all pretty much interchangeable.

You know, we generally don’t use the language “soul and divinity”, but I personally don’t have a problem with it. Christ is, afterall, more than flesh and blood. Clearly, his divinity and soul (both if we are to believe in the Incarnation) are part of His presence.

Jon
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Hi, Jon,

I was referring to the difference in name between Consub and Transub…were it not for the name, or the name given to the theology or doctrine…it would still be the Real Presence.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Originally Posted by joe370
Every Christian regardless of denomination, once baptized, is endowed with the holy spirit. With that said: does the holy spirit guide one church to believe one thing and another church to believe the polar opposite? Of course not…Either the HS is guiding the church founded by Christ, into all truth, or the HS is NOT guiding any one church at all. The HS is called the spirit of truth for a reason in my opinion…
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Righlydivide,
I see this often in conversation between Catholics and Protestants. Joe has asked a question regarding the guidance of the Holy Spirit…He has not mentioned a specific Church (other than the one “founded by Christ”).
You, knowing that Joe is Catholic and that this is a Catholic site, ask a question back that basically changes the subject from one about the guidance of the Holy Spirit to one about Joe’s specific beliefs as to which church is true. This basically avoids the question asked.

This is not about the “Catholic Church” specifically, but rather about whether the Holy Spirit can rightly guide different individuals to different (and opposing) conclusions.
I would like to hear your answer to that question and then see what Joe has to say in response.

Peace
James
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joe370 said:
Is the bread at the Lord’s table only bread, or is it the Body of Christ? Zwingli will tell you one thing; Luther, another, and these were the very first leaders of the reformed church that spearhead the reformation. To whom can I defer in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?
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Protestantism isn’t one church, they’re all different. You shouldn’t think of them (us) as one group, because they never were one group.

By the way, Luther said the bread truly was the Body of Christ.
 
pablope said:
Hi, Jon,

I was referring to the difference in name between Consub and Transub…were it not for the name, or the name given to the theology or doctrine…it would still be the Real Presence.
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Yes, I agree, in the sense that all of these explanations, Transub, consub, Sacramental Union, all express differently what we agree on: “This IS my body.”

Jon
 
joe370 said:
Hi Simeon…🙂

As a former protestant I was just wondering if there was a way to know the truth regarding the Eucharist. Was there someone, one could defer to in the protestant sphere for some sort of resolution, as there is in the Catholic church. I guess I always knew there wasn’t and I just wondered why that fact didn’t bother other non-Catholics as it use to bother me as a non-Catholic.

Joe, your post brings several thoughts to mind
Members of the RCC can obtain an official position on any topic but that does not equal agreement. For example, many Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation per the official Church teaching.
  • Is this issue really ‘resolved’ in your mind for these non-conforming Catholics?
  • Is it appropriate to compare these non-conforming Catholics to Protestants with similar views?
  • Why is it essential that we agree on every aspect of interpretation?
  • Is it even possible to reach such concensus?
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[E=Todd520
[/QUOTE]
;7230660]Joe, your post brings several thoughts to mind
Members of the RCC can obtain an official position on any topic but that does not equal agreement.
For example, many Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation per the official Church teaching.
  • Is this issue really ‘resolved’ in your mind for these non-conforming Catholics?
  • Is it appropriate to compare these non-conforming Catholics to Protestants with similar views?
  • Why is it essential that we agree on every aspect of interpretation?
  • Is it even possible to reach such concensus?
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True, but in the end we defer to the authority of the CC, and if we want to continue to reject, say, the teaching of the Eucharist, we can leave, but we are expected to embrace the teaching of the CC regarding the Eucharist if we want to belong to the CC. I was just looking for the same sort of universal authority in the protestant sphere.

Yes, this issue is really resolved in my mind for these non-conforming Catholics, who ever they are; I have yet to meet a catholic who rejects the Eucharistic teaching of the CC, but that is their right of course. Defer to the church founded by God or find another church that conforms to your beliefs - would be my answer to those non-conforming Catholics. I respect their rights to believe their interpretation over the interpretation of the church founded by Jesus. 👍

It is essential to me (I respect your right to believe the opposite) - that we as Christians agree vis-a-vis the Eucharist because there can be only one truth regarding the Eucharist for the simple fact that the spirit of truth does not guide us into conflicting truths, (truth is not relative in this case) - and I believe it is important to Jesus that we have access to the truth vis-a-vis His Body and Blood for Jesus said:

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life.”

Todd, you said:
Is it even possible to reach such consensus?
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Well, that is why I started this thread; I was hoping to find that answer, but so far, no luck.
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Frost said:
Protestantism isn’t one church, they’re all different. You shouldn’t think of them (us) as one group, because they never were one group.

By the way, Luther said the bread truly was the Body of Christ.
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I agree with Luther and I agree with you regarding protestantism. That was one of the reasons why I became catholic. Thanks for your feedback friend.
 
Originally Posted by Rightlydivide View Post
So for you, either Catholicism is completely true or Christianity is false? Is that saying too much?
Thanks
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Catholicism is completely true if Jesus established the CC, and I believe that Jesus did and that Jesus sent the HS to guide the CC into all truth, regarding His teachings, until the end of time.

You do believe that catholicism and Christianity are one and the same don’t you? If so then how can catholicism be true and Christianity false??? :confused:
 
JRKH said:
Righlydivide,
I see this often in conversation between Catholics and Protestants. Joe has asked a question regarding the guidance of the Holy Spirit…He has not mentioned a specific Church (other than the one “founded by Christ”).
You, knowing that Joe is Catholic and that this is a Catholic site, ask a question back that basically changes the subject from one about the guidance of the Holy Spirit to one about Joe’s specific beliefs as to which church is true. This basically avoids the question asked.

This is not about the “Catholic Church” specifically, but rather about whether the Holy Spirit can rightly guide different individuals to different (and opposing) conclusions.
I would like to hear your answer to that question and then see what Joe has to say in response.

Peace
James
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Joe and I engage in a lot of the same threads. The question I asked had practically nothing to do with the thread. I was just curious. Joe and I have the same essential conversation regardless of the question asked. Its like coming in on a conversation when you missed the first 90 percent
I answered the question already in my own way in another post.
 
joe370 said:
Catholicism is completely true if Jesus established the CC, and I believe that Jesus did and that Jesus sent the HS to guide the CC into all truth, regarding His teachings, until the end of time.

You do believe that catholicism and Christianity are one and the same don’t you? If so then how can catholicism be true and Christianity false??? :confused:
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No. Not everyone who is part of Christianity is Catholic. They are not one and the same. If I list my religion on a hospital form as Christian, the hospital is not going to assume I am Catholic are they? Come on Joe…
 
Rightlydivide said:
No. Not everyone who is part of Christianity is Catholic. They are not one and the same. If I list my religion on a hospital form as Christian, the hospital is not going to assume I am Catholic are they? Come on Joe…
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Come on RD, both catholics and protestants are Christians - right???
 
RD you said:
So for you, either Catholicism is completely true or Christianity is false? Is that saying too much?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
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Catholicism (a Christian faith) - is completely true as far as I am concerned. For you, Protestantism (a Christian faith) - is completely true - correct?

Let’s flip it: For you either Catholicism is completely false or Christianity is true. Is that saying too much?
 
Truth is found in the scriptures. Jesus said (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19; John 6:35, 48 & 51-54) that the bread was his body. Catholics interpret this to be that the bread actually becomes the body of Christ once eaten (Transubstantiation.)

Because Jesus gave his body for us on the cross, Protestants believe that Jesus is using the bread and wine to explain the significance of what he was about to do on the cross and are memorials of Christ’s sacrifice. People eat bread to satisfy physical hunger and to sustain physical life. We can satisfy spiritual hunger and sustain spiritual life only by a right relationship with Jesus Christ. No wonder he called himself the bread of life. But bread must be eaten to sustain life, and Christ must beinvited into our daily walk to sustain spiritual life.

Please be careful about lumping all non-Catholics in the Protestant camp. There are many who claim to be Protestant, but don’t follow the teachings of the bible. Protestants are defined as those who follow the teachings of the bible.
 
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