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bluemug
Guest
Firstly we need to know about “what God is”, then “who created God”.
Let us all read :
“THEOLOGY and SANITY”, by Frank J Sheed.
Let us all read :
“THEOLOGY and SANITY”, by Frank J Sheed.
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Mystic_Banana
Guest
Then they would be God - or Whomever were first cause would be. You could invent all sorts of scenarios, just look at the infinite causality theory!God created physical time that we are bound too
Who will ever know. What if something else caused and effect which lead to the cause that effected our universe?
God being eternal puts him beyond temporality - and beyond physical matter. If he created time and matter, why would He be limited to it? And why rely on maybes, when we have God?
Just remember - every atom in the universe is caused by God, and filled with His spiritJust remember, every single atom in this universe is “God”
Aha - you are selling pantheism!
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lemondiesel
Guest
And do you believe Pantheism is a joke? Its an excellent way to see the UNIverse caused by God, and filled with the “Holy Spirit”Just remember - every atom in the universe is caused by God, and filled with His spirit
Aha - you are selling pantheism!
Why else would atoms act the way they do? Its almost like every atom has a “conscious” each one “knows” what to do.
Personal “God(s)” are man made, to help humans relate better to this certain God. God doesn’t “care” or “feel” or anything for his creations because God is not man, and these are all** human emotions** that we create.
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Mystic_Banana
Guest
Oh. And I thought we were getting on so well!
Nope, I don’t think Pantheism is a joke. But I don’t think it really makes half as much sense as Panentheism.
Almost, but not quite. And really, I don’t think we know enough about atoms to really figure out how they’re acting at all (I became disillusioned with atomic physics after reading a book about it)
Hmmm - suddenly Pantheistic God is barely conscious at all! I’d agree we don’t entirely understand God, but I think it’s more our lack of understanding of the emotion of God, rather than God being a cold, automatic thing. I’d furthermore suggest that such ideas come from our degeneracy into viewing reality via a cold, clinical, mechanistic lens that guides us to lose sight of such love - because, limited to the extent of our calculability to mechanism, we lose sight of anything beyond it.
I prefer the ‘personal’ God, and I think it’s not so much an invention, as a display of the extent of our understanding and appreciation of God’s love, and our understanding of it. The denial of such, I think, is just closing our eyes in the face of Godhead being beyond our full comprehension - something too many of us proudly drive ourselves to
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mangy_dog
Guest
Hello Dude,I know for the big minds out there (you know who you are!but I still don’t get it
Could someone here explain to me please (in human terms) why God is uncreated?
Thanks a lot!
coolduude
I’m one of the little minds. In order for God to [qualify] for the position of [God], he would have to gather several “credentials” and qualifications. Please pardon the redundancy in terms. (I told you I’m a little mind)
Among the many attributes and qualities and powers and being omniscent, omnipotent and omnipresent…he would have to be ( drum roll please…)
Uncreated!!! tadaaaaaaaa. In other words Eternal. For the angels had a distinct beginning and so has everything else in the universe but…eternity is the exclusive realm of God. Only He is Eternal. Which is why when Moses asks, " who should I say sent me?" God answers, " I Am". Past, Present and Future are an eternal now to God.
If he were created then…he couldn’t be God…then whoever created him - is God.
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Major_Minor
Guest
On a slightly different note I thought this was funny…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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mangy_dog
Guest
That is funny.
I saw something similar one time that said, " The big bang theory…God spoke and BAAANNNGGGG!!!" the universe came into being.
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Mystic_Banana
Guest
Well, it was a Catholic Priest, as I understand it, that came up with the theory - don’t hear that mentioned very often on Science programmes, do you?That is funny.
I saw something similar one time that said, " The big bang theory…God spoke and BAAANNNGGGG!!!" the universe came into being.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
The Universe can be shown to have a begining.
It is unresonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
The Universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teachs.
God as a creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore he has no beginning in time, he has always existed, so he doesn’t need a cause.
It is unresonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
The Universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teachs.
God as a creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore he has no beginning in time, he has always existed, so he doesn’t need a cause.
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mangy_dog
Guest
Couldn’t have said it better myself… no really,… I couldn’t.
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Neo_Scotist
Guest
All explanations must end at some brute fact:
Do triangles exist?
we can draw a triangle to prove they can exist.
Why do traingles have three sides?
That’s the end of explantion, we cannot explain why a triangle three sides. We can only say “that is the way it is.”
Does an infinite being exist?
we can try and prove that god exists or what he can do or not do.
why does an infinite being exist rather than not?
that cannot be answered because there’s nothing behind it to explain it. It is the end of explanations as far god is concerned.
Do triangles exist?
we can draw a triangle to prove they can exist.
Why do traingles have three sides?
That’s the end of explantion, we cannot explain why a triangle three sides. We can only say “that is the way it is.”
Does an infinite being exist?
we can try and prove that god exists or what he can do or not do.
why does an infinite being exist rather than not?
that cannot be answered because there’s nothing behind it to explain it. It is the end of explanations as far god is concerned.
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itinerant1
Guest
Big Bang theory is a scientific theory, which many Christians tend to wrongly equate with or rather confuse with Creation.That is funny.
I saw something similar one time that said, " The big bang theory…God spoke and BAAANNNGGGG!!!" the universe came into being.
Pope Pius XII was an avid supporter of Big Bang theory, first formulated by Fr. Georges Lemaitre. So far, Big Bang is the most solid of cosmological theories. Ever more supporting scientific evidence for Big Bang is still being discovered.
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lemondiesel
Guest
the big bang theory does not explain why it happen, really only explaining what resulted from it.
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itinerant1
Guest
True!
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LilyM
Guest
It’s a matter of definition - it’s inherent in the definition of the word ‘triangle’ that it’s a three-sided object (heck, it’s even in there in the actual word itself - hence ‘tri’). And it’s inherent in the Judeo-Christian definition of God that He is uncreated. I’m sure there are scriptural references such as ‘from all eternity, O Lord, You are’ (meaning God is eternal, and thus uncreated, since all created beings have a definite beginning point).All explanations must end at some brute fact:
Do triangles exist?
we can draw a triangle to prove they can exist.
Why do traingles have three sides?
That’s the end of explantion, we cannot explain why a triangle three sides. We can only say “that is the way it is.”
Does an infinite being exist?
we can try and prove that god exists or what he can do or not do.
why does an infinite being exist rather than not?
that cannot be answered because there’s nothing behind it to explain it. It is the end of explanations as far god is concerned.
Ancient Greeks and Romans believed in some gods having (creating?) children who themselves were also gods, but as I said it’s the Judeo-Christian definition of the word I’m interested in.
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itinerant1
Guest
Classical philosophical analysis has demonstrated that the existence of contingent beings (all physical things in the universe) can only be explained by the existence of a Being whose existence is Necessary (i.e.uncreated being). And this is what we understand by the term God.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
The book of Genisis answers your question. Matter of fact the very first verse answers your question. In the begining; “God created the Heavens and the Earth” In understanding this verse we understand that God lives outside of Time and “our” understanding of time. Many other verse’s of the New Testatment tell us God was acting before time. But the first verse is of utmost importance and the place to start your understanding. And that understanding is “What is Time” And how long did Time Exist?
Before Time began 1 Corinthians 2:7
before the beginning of time 2 Timothy 1:9
before the beginning of time Titus 1:2
before all time Jude 1:25
Platos idea was time was created along with the Universe from his study of Mose’s.
Even great minds like Stephen Hawking who suscribe to the Big Bang theory. Would assume that time began upon the Big Bang. And thus so there must have been something before the big bang to cause the big bang. The big bang didn’t start from nothingness. It started from “something” And that something would have to adhere to some principle of Time. Maybe not time as we know it, but time none the less. So Ellis, Hawking, Penrose etc and their better thinking actually comfirm the theory of the Bible.
God has no need to have been created, since he exists outside of time {where cause and effect do “not” operate} or in multiple dimensions of time {thus there is no beginning of the plane of Gods time} Thus God it eternal, having never been created. Though it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for creation, yet observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finate 13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the athiest is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can be confirmed experimentally {thus it is metaphysical in nature and not scientific}
The existing gap between religion and science is not growing farther and farther apart. In reality it is coming closer and closer together to being “one”. Yes there are minds out here who do not follow one faith or another. Yet on a daily basis this is ever changing and the numbers become farther and fewer inbetween.
Before Time began 1 Corinthians 2:7
before the beginning of time 2 Timothy 1:9
before the beginning of time Titus 1:2
before all time Jude 1:25
Platos idea was time was created along with the Universe from his study of Mose’s.
Even great minds like Stephen Hawking who suscribe to the Big Bang theory. Would assume that time began upon the Big Bang. And thus so there must have been something before the big bang to cause the big bang. The big bang didn’t start from nothingness. It started from “something” And that something would have to adhere to some principle of Time. Maybe not time as we know it, but time none the less. So Ellis, Hawking, Penrose etc and their better thinking actually comfirm the theory of the Bible.
God has no need to have been created, since he exists outside of time {where cause and effect do “not” operate} or in multiple dimensions of time {thus there is no beginning of the plane of Gods time} Thus God it eternal, having never been created. Though it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for creation, yet observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finate 13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the athiest is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can be confirmed experimentally {thus it is metaphysical in nature and not scientific}
The existing gap between religion and science is not growing farther and farther apart. In reality it is coming closer and closer together to being “one”. Yes there are minds out here who do not follow one faith or another. Yet on a daily basis this is ever changing and the numbers become farther and fewer inbetween.
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itinerant1
Guest
“Theory of the Bible”??? The Bible does not teach a “theory” of creation, or any cosmological theory, whatsoever.
In any case, Hawking would disagree with you. The main purpose of his book “A Brief History of Time” is to describe a universe that has no need of God.
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