Who created God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ANV
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So you believe Buddhists are obviosly more silly and self deceptive than, say, Protestants or Crusdaers or Pius10thers because the latter believe in one God and the former dont?
Will not defend Bruno as inoffensive as kinder terminology would be a more diplomatic approach. What he said, though coarse, is true. We are to speak the truth in love. Our heated first response may need to take heed to the journey the other is trodding.

Bhudda came far from life as a noble under polytheism and idolatry. Not nearly as far as did Abrim.

Enough said.
 
Well, I must admid, that to people who deny and refuse God and even reject and even rebuff God, I can hardly be friendly and kind.

Besides, please mind I’m a “bloody foreigner, who hardly speaks English at all” 😃
I’m quite happy, when I manage to clue together a full sentence. Though with my sparrow-brain I do manage this piece of handicraft from time to time, I still never know if my uttering then was friendly of rude. I look at my English construction and say “Yes - great” and pat my shoulder.
If then my addressed friends are embarrassed - I don’t even know why ;-D

At night I woke up and the inlightening came over me, like: Ah, yeah, I ought to have said x instead of y , and such pressed my bad lnguage in civilized forms. Ah well …

A frien from Seattle (american-born) was here in Karlsruhe. We talked and talked, and at times he stopped in surprise. Not at my “great” English which I learned in a Bitish factory in the end-50s, but at the mouthful that came happily out of me ;-D
CAF-English obviously seems to be another English than spoken in a factory in the Midlands ;-D

yours
this guy:
mind the hat - an original design by Dior! Terribly expensive!
 
So you believe Buddhists are obviosly more silly and self deceptive than, say, Protestants or Crusdaers or Pius10thers because the latter believe in one God and the former dont?
Yes I really do! You can’t compare Buddhists with Protestants, Crusaders or Pius X.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X

Protestants are Christians, so are the Catholic Pius X, and the historic (Catholic) crusaders can never be matched with today’s circumstances. Else you’d have to match The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights, with Donald Trump’s regulars table.

I in fact think, that it’s a true sin to say, Evangelicals are no Christians; solely we Catholics are! There are lots of truly believing Evangelicals, who are a lot higher in the eyes of God, than many a Catholic! I know Catholic Priests who are rightly in prison (child molestation), and I know Protestant Saints.
peopleof.oureverydaylife.com/protestant-religions-saints-2596.html

It’s a great disgreace in the eye of God, when Catholics in the faith of God, pointing at Evangelicals say: Thank you Gracious God, that I’m not like these Protestants (Luke 18,11).
Neither you nor I nor Evangelicals chose their denomination, but where born into it. Except to converts - but let’s not get into hairsplitting arguments.

It’s said, that we pray to saints and venerate them. Protestants honors saints but does not pray to saints or venerate them.

We Catholics neither do - but Protestants and Catholics venerate Saints alike.
If we ask a Saint to interfere with God for a problem we got, that’s not praying (adoring) them. We even ask a deceased (at least I do with my saintly parents in law) to help in this or that situation. We all certainly do with the Most Holy Mary.
We solely pray to God, as all Christians do. Asking Holy Mary (or any Saint) to conciliate, is not praying to them as to God in the Most Holy Trinity. It’s entirely different.

Atheists, Gnostics, Buddhists & Co. Ltd. are a much different gauge or stature, and have nothing what so ever to do with any Christian of whatever denomination. Not even with members of the other two monotheistic religions. In fact, they are even below pagan religions. They indeed are Ltd. Limited in mind, spirit, soul and even earthly life, having their own conviction= disbelief.
No, I’m not able to be more friendly to them then I am in my then “coarse” way.
That however is very far off any hatred! I even got some atheist friends! But it’s in the hope, that they find back to God.

Yours
Bruno
 
My long-winded :twocents:

The problem I see with these discussions is that there is no Atheism, other than the collection of people who use the label. To define the precepts of Atheism one would have to do a statistical survey. This is in contrast with the Church, to whose teachings and traditions Catholic, in varying degrees and willingness, the faithful try to adhere. On these forums one frequently observes of non-Catholics, a tendency to focus on what we may individually believe, as opposed to an interest in the actual Faith itself, which grounded in the grace of the Holy Spirit and revealed by Jesus Christ. This is consistent with a belief that there is no absolute truth in matters of the spirit, such as beauty, morality, and the meaning of existence, other than the relative opinions of individual persons.

Along with a denial of the world of the spirit, what you generally get, as in the case of Stephen Hawking, is a dismissal of philosophy and theology. There would be no point to seeking answers to who and why we are if there exists no such truth.

The process of spiritual discovery necessarily involves confronting the ignorance that pervades the human condition, which manifests itself as the abyss, the meaninglessness, emptiness, uncaringness and disconnect that accompanies life. In Death’s domain, we can hide or collude, but only temporarily; it will find us. The only hope lies in transcendence. And, that is what religions are all about.

So Atheism boils down to a collection of individuals, using different definitions, who self-identify as such. Within this category, there are persons trying to understand themselves in the world, finding that the language of religion has no meaning for them. Others, for their own reasons, seem to be interested primarily in putting down the beliefs of others. On another axis, there are the two poles of scientism and social progressivism. Of course it’s not a matter of either or, but a combination of these approaches to religion. We are all sinners, and I believe that in general Atheism presents a dysfuctional way of dealing with that reality.

With respect to the spiritual, what is understood by those with a scientific bent is that there exists a subjective mind with the capacity of evolving ideas concerning reality, which deeply believed to be material. A pointlessness in life, fear and anxiety about death in its many forms boil down to illusory demons, which if not easily dismissed, can be controlled or abated by the distractions of the world (sex, money, power, fame), through meditative techniques, some form of psychoanalysis, and drugs, therapeutic or illicit. If all one believes in are the laws that govern the material, thoughts about God and gods are delusory and fanciful illusions that pacify children at best, the opium of the masses.

The reality is that there does exist a transcendent Divine, living Truth, whom we can know. To know Him requires a commitment, a conversion. One has to walk the walk. There is no knowledge outside of our relationship with Him. But then, there is no standing still in life, so that even waiting for such evidence to impose itself upon us is a step along the path that is the Truth. What does not help is a strict denial of what appear at the moment to be solely possibilities and a reluctance to venture forward to meet God who calls us all.In the symbol of Christian transcendence, the cross, we see the hope of life eternal in God through the confrontation of suffering with love. In and through Christ we become children of God, sharing with Him the glory that is His.

When we meet Him, the living Truth, all our questions will be answered. Those as irrational as the OP will disperse like a fog in the blazing sun that is the simple reality of God Himself.
👍 Your post highlights the vast gulf between a theist and an atheist. A simple word of three letters sums up the source of everything we consider most precious: truth, goodness, beauty, freedom, justice and love. The bleak alternative is mindless matter producing purposeless organisms with so-called emergent attributes and isomorphisms which cannot conceal the fundamental emptiness of a Godless universe and a worthless existence that is a mere spark in the darkness of eternity.

** There are no intermediate stages between persons and particles.** We are either conscious or deluded, autonomous or conditioned, rational beings capable of self-determination or biological robots programmed by our environment. It is a question of all or nothing, being positive or negative, creative or destructive… and there is the answer to the question of who created God. The ability to pose that question presupposes a supernatural power beyond our comprehension without which nothing makes sense…
 
Yes I really do! You can’t compare Buddhists with Protestants, Crusaders or Pius X.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X

Protestants are Christians, so are the Catholic Pius X, and the historic (Catholic) crusaders can never be matched with today’s circumstances. Else you’d have to match The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights, with Donald Trump’s regulars table.

I in fact think, that it’s a true sin to say, Evangelicals are no Christians; solely we Catholics are! There are lots of truly believing Evangelicals, who are a lot higher in the eyes of God, than many a Catholic! I know Catholic Priests who are rightly in prison (child molestation), and I know Protestant Saints.
peopleof.oureverydaylife.com/protestant-religions-saints-2596.html

It’s a great disgreace in the eye of God, when Catholics in the faith of God, pointing at Evangelicals say: Thank you Gracious God, that I’m not like these Protestants (Luke 18,11).
Neither you nor I nor Evangelicals chose their denomination, but where born into it. Except to converts - but let’s not get into hairsplitting arguments.

It’s said, that we pray to saints and venerate them. Protestants honors saints but does not pray to saints or venerate them.

We Catholics neither do - but Protestants and Catholics venerate Saints alike.
If we ask a Saint to interfere with God for a problem we got, that’s not praying (adoring) them. We even ask a deceased (at least I do with my saintly parents in law) to help in this or that situation. We all certainly do with the Most Holy Mary.
We solely pray to God, as all Christians do. Asking Holy Mary (or any Saint) to conciliate, is not praying to them as to God in the Most Holy Trinity. It’s entirely different.

Atheists, Gnostics, Buddhists & Co. Ltd. are a much different gauge or stature, and have nothing what so ever to do with any Christian of whatever denomination. Not even with members of the other two monotheistic religions. In fact, they are even below pagan religions. They indeed are Ltd. Limited in mind, spirit, soul and even earthly life, having their own conviction= disbelief.
No, I’m not able to be more friendly to them then I am in my then “coarse” way.
That however is very far off any hatred! I even got some atheist friends! But it’s in the hope, that they find back to God.

Yours
Bruno
Bruno you sound a sincere guy but I would be surprised if your workmates and friends do not consider you somewhat extreme and even a bit of a Catholic “religious nutter”. If you really believe even half of what you say above I do not think words exist to bring you back to a realistic and true Catholic understanding.
 
If everything came out of something then who created God?
God is considered to be both uncaused and outside of time. Causation requires a temporal component.

According to modern cosmology, the universe is said to have come out of nothing because nothingness is unstable.

The modern universe is not the same as that which was traditionally meant by the word universe (traditional universe: everything there is). The modern universe is simply a manifold (a mathematical word for that which we call space-time), a warp-able rubber-sheet type of playground in which matter and energy gambol about.

Nothingness, true nothingness, would not allow dimensions like space or time or their hybridization which we call space-time. The big bang was the deterioration of absolutely uniform nothingness into space-time. “Space-time tells matter how to move and matter tells space-time how to curve”, said John Archibald Wheeler. There is a lot left out here between the initial occurrence of the supremely uniform uninhabited manifold and the highly energetic ultra-high temperature big bang. You will have to consult either texts on cosmology or else for simpler explanations, youtube videos.

The old idea of the universe is now called the multiverse. Our universe, our manifold, is embedded in the multiverse, but when we do general relativity we eschew the mathematics of embedding for unembedded curved space-time tensor analysis on mathematical manifolds because the mathematics of embedding rapidly increases in complexity, so much so that 4-d space-time general relativity is much more easily done with tensor analysis than with computations involving 4-d shapes embedded in a higher dimensional space-time.

Man’s naive intuition tends towards embedding lower dimensional shapes inside higher dimensional spaces, but as the number of dimensions rises one finds that this is mathematically the wrong thing to do.

Usually, intuition is a good place to start, but not in this case.
 
Ha - friends - a new merit I got. The right-honourable medal of the „RELIGIOUS NUTTER“!
Very few people in the world got this honor!

I’m a religious nutter, and not even words exist to bring me back to a realistic and true Catholic understanding.

Thanks heavens we got CAF to enlighten me about my true nature and bring me back on the track ;-D

Yours
Bruno 😃
 
God is considered to be both uncaused and outside of time. Causation requires a temporal component.
Right! And God is not just „considered“ to be uncaused. But (as many posts here in and all of CAF rightly state) and we jolly well do know anway; God always was and will always be „uncaused". We „earthlings“ can’t really comprehend this, but simply have to accept it - as a child has to „accept“ his parents, which the child did not choose.
According to modern cosmology, the universe is said to have come out of nothing because nothingness is unstable.
„Nothingness“ doesn’t exist, nor can it be unstable, nor can anything what so ever come out or result of it, for somet inexistent can’t be (whatsoever). Even the word „something“ isn’t hitting, as no „nothing“ exists. Hence, not even the darkness could exist, for what and where would (it) be dark?
It’s all philosophic questions that all we simply can’t grasp, as we are matter and can’t else but think in matter with a brain of matter. Even that human brain as John Eccles wrote, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Eccles_(neurophysiologist we will never really understand. In his book Spirit and Soul, he wrote, that God only knows.
Never mind, I heaven we suddenly will, and will see, that God always was 😉
…The old idea of the universe is now called the multiverse…
Scientists might call it whatever they like, it remains all theses, but never understood reality. Science tends to explain everything, but can’t even explain the very brain of it’s scientists, and still don’t exclude human-like like in outer space. This though is ridiculous, for Christ’s salvation is a unique deed and cant be done twice or more for other beings on other planets. Nor would God create other people elsewhere, which he then would not redeem. All that „science“ is nothing but naive blather of „Scientists“ who think they have to explore God and God’s ways. The atheist Stephen Hawkin even declared 30 years ago, when he was still unsure about God „……then we’d know God’s plans“.
Stephen will be terribly surprised the day he dies.

„The day he dies" might be wrong, for it might be, that all these wo doubt or even deny God - as atheists do, will remain „dead“ until last day; judgement-day. Jesus though said to the repentant sinner on the cross, that he will be in heaven this very day together with Christ. There are enough hints in the New Covenant, that might lead to this thought.But never mind, it’s a great word of Jesus Christ in John 3,18: The one who believes in Jesus Christ, will not be judged.
Let’s be sure, that not even the Angels do comprehend God, neither will we ever, when we live in God’s Kingdom.

Yours
Bruno
 
God is considered to be both uncaused and outside of time. Causation requires a temporal component.

According to modern cosmology, the universe is said to have come out of nothing because nothingness is unstable.
This is why so many scientists make for awful philosophers.

You burned up your first point about the temporal requisite for causality in the retro rockets of an awkward view of the modern universe, that universe which was apparently born yesterday.

God is outside of time and resonant energies of any form are not nothingness.

At least you appear to be a Platonist rather than neoplatonist.
 
To convert from Christianity to Buddhism, seems fashionable in our time to do …
Fashionable? Oh no! I’ll have to convert to something else. I don’t want to be fashionable, not at my age (I’m Georgian).
… as those who are not given understanding, think all religions are one.
If I thought all religions were the same then I wouldn’t have bothered to change. It is precisely because I could see that there were real differences between religions that I made the change.

rossum
 
How do you explain his Resurrection?
Advanced Bodhisattvas can perform miracles. 🙂

More prosaically the “blood and water” on the cross indicates that the soldier’s spear missed Jesus’ heart, instead hitting the left lymphatic duct, which is above the heart. A soldier thrusting a spear upwards from the ground would enter the body at an angle. Any wound will bleed blood; not all wounds bleed water as well. Jesus was in a coma and recovered after three days. YMMV.

rossum
 
Fashionable? Oh no! I’ll have to convert to something else. I don’t want to be fashionable, not at my age (I’m Georgian).

If I thought all religions were the same then I wouldn’t have bothered to change. It is precisely because I could see that there were real differences between religions that I made the change.

rossum
Rossum, what kind of food do Buddhists eat. I heard that Buddhist reject all comfort and desire. So would that include tasty food?.
 
Advanced Bodhisattvas can perform miracles. 🙂

More prosaically the “blood and water” on the cross indicates that the soldier’s spear missed Jesus’ heart, instead hitting the left lymphatic duct, which is above the heart. A soldier thrusting a spear upwards from the ground would enter the body at an angle. Any wound will bleed blood; not all wounds bleed water as well. Jesus was in a coma and recovered after three days. YMMV.

rossum
Are you saying the wound healed after 3 days due to a miracle, because i don’t think someones going to be walking around after 3 months with a wound like that.

Also do you believe that Jesus went to Asia to study the mystical arts?
 
that quite a few of you tend to praise Buddhism …
Guilty. 🙂
… which is mere atheism
You need to learn more about Buddhism. This is from chapter one of the Saddharmapundarika sutra (Lotus Sutra):

Sakra, the ruler of the celestials, with twenty thousand gods, his followers, such as the god Chandra (the Moon), the god Surya (the Sun), the god Samantagandha (the Wind), the god Ratnaprabha, the god Avabhasaprabha, and others; further, the four great rulers of the cardinal points with thirty thousand gods in their train, viz. the great ruler Virudhaka, the great ruler Virupaksha, the great ruler Dhritarashtra, and the great ruler Vaisravana; the god Ishvara and the god Maheshvara, each followed by thirty thousand gods; further, Brahma Sahdmpati and his twelve thousand followers, the Brahmakayika gods, amongst whom Brahma Sikhin and Brahma Gyotishprabha, with the other twelve thousand Brahmakayika gods.

Buddhism has a lot more gods than the Abrahamic religions.
Those who don’t know what it means to be a Christian, prefer Buddhism,
You are generalising far too much. A lifelong Muslim living in Saudi Arabia who doesn’t know what it means to be a Christian will not “prefer Buddhism”, so your statement is obviously false. You seem to make too many sweeping assertions about whole groups. “He who generalises generally lies.” Better not to do that.

rossum
 
Rossum, what kind of food do Buddhists eat. I heard that Buddhist reject all comfort and desire. So would that include tasty food?.
You heard wrong. Overindulgence is an error, but within reason enjoyment is fine providing you stay aware that it is temporary.

Many Buddhists are vegetarian so as to avoid killing animals.

rossum
 
Are you saying the wound healed after 3 days due to a miracle, because i don’t think someones going to be walking around after 3 months with a wound like that.
The wound was present for Thomas to examine, so it had not healed completely. Being in a coma reduces the heart rate, and hence blood pressure. With lower pressure it is easier for the blood to clot and seal the wound. As you say, full repair would take longer.

We know from Josephus that someone taken down early from a cross can survive. Jesus was taken down early.
Also do you believe that Jesus went to Asia to study the mystical arts?
No, at least not in that lifetime. In a previous or later life… who knows? If He was a Bodhisattva, then He already had many lifetimes of training behind Him when He was born.

rossum
 
No, at least not in that lifetime. In a previous or later life… who knows? If He was a Bodhisattva, then He already had many lifetimes of training behind Him when He was born.

rossum
But if that the case Then why isn’t Christianity essentially Buddhism?
 
But if that the case Then why isn’t Christianity essentially Buddhism?
A Bodhisattva is not a fully-enlightened Buddha. Jesus was approaching the destination, and got many things right, but He had not yet reached the finish. He still had a few lifetimes to go.

There are a great many similarities in morality; most of the differences are in the theological background. Some of the differences are due to different environments: the Buddha grew up in a proto-Hindu environment while Jesus grew up in a Jewish environment. Other differences are due to the different paths the two religions have taken since their foundation 2250 ± 250 years ago.

rossum
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top