Who Deserves to be in Hell?

[frangiuliano115]

You are mistaken; I only have a problem with lists when people act as though they are the ONLY thing God will take into account when judging a soul.

God has infinite wisdom, infinite intelligence, and infinite understanding (among other things). To say that what is in a person’s heart would have NO baring on where said person ends up just does not make sense to me.

Again, I am basing by belief on this particular subject on Matthew 25:31-46.

Hi Born in March,

You confuse me because you say something that is right, but other times you say things that are wrong.

You can’t make up your own list of who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. You yourself say that God will decide based on what is in a persons heart.

Take your drug addict, for instance. One might be doing drugs because he’s addicted but he loves God and is trying to follow Jesus and is having a difficult time with his drug addiction. Which hopefully and with God’s help will one day be cured.

Another might be doing drugs and have no consideration for God, does not accept Jesus as his redeemer and is wallowing in the mire - in satan’s playground.

But this is for him and for God to decide, but you’ve placed them both on the sheep side. You also place non-believers on the sheep (saved) side. This is interesting. Non-believers are rejecting the Holy Spirit - the one unpardonable sin, and yet you have them
as going to be with the God they don’t believe in.

So you have a problem with lists - except the one that YOU make up.

It’s good that you understand Mathew 25. So if you feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, invite strangers in, clothe the naked, visit the sick, visit the imprisoned - you’re going to heaven? Even atheists do this. What’s the difference? Now we get back to the heart thing.

Jesus said, not all who cry Lord Lord will gain the kingdom of God, but those who do the will of My Father.
The will of the Father is that we follow His Son.
Jesus told Mary Magdalene: Neither do I condemn you - go and sin no more.
Jesus said - I have not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. What does that mean?

I’d study up more on the sin nature if I were you and stop making lists - which you’re against anyway.

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

Generally speaking, I don’t think academic confusion has anything to do with it.

It’s not hard to see why people prefer to believe that all people are saved. Hell is inconceivable. It’s the most horrifying concept to be dreamed of, and it is real, and people are there, burning, seething, hating, and sinning, as I write this post. Legions of demons and an unknown number of humans, all with rational souls. It has never been a palatable doctrine at any point in history, least of all for the squeamishness of postmodernist man

He might have had another conversation with somebody that agreed with him, and the discussion would have ended in 5 seconds with a mental pat on each others’ backs.

I agree with you TK421.

And it does need to be said. I always say that not teaching about hell is like teaching someone to drive and forgetting to tell them about the red traffic light. It’s dangerous.

Fran

 

[BornInMarch]

Hi Born in March,

You confuse me because you say something that is right, but other times you say things that are wrong.

You can’t make up your own list of who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. You yourself say that God will decide based on what is in a persons heart.

Take your drug addict, for instance. One might be doing drugs because he’s addicted but he loves God and is trying to follow Jesus and is having a difficult time with his drug addiction. Which hopefully and with God’s help will one day be cured.

Another might be doing drugs and have no consideration for God, does not accept Jesus as his redeemer and is wallowing in the mire - in satan’s playground.

But this is for him and for God to decide, but you’ve placed them both on the sheep side. You also place non-believers on the sheep (saved) side. This is interesting. Non-believers are rejecting the Holy Spirit - the one unpardonable sin, and yet you have them
as going to be with the God they don’t believe in.

So you have a problem with lists - except the one that YOU make up.

It’s good that you understand Mathew 25. So if you feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, invite strangers in, clothe the naked, visit the sick, visit the imprisoned - you’re going to heaven? Even atheists do this. What’s the difference? Now we get back to the heart thing.

Jesus said, not all who cry Lord Lord will gain the kingdom of God, but those who do the will of My Father.
The will of the Father is that we follow His Son.
Jesus told Mary Magdalene: Neither do I condemn you - go and sin no more.
Jesus said - I have not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. What does that mean?

I’d study up more on the sin nature if I were you and stop making lists - which you’re against anyway.

Fran

I already clarified, I am only against claiming that a list has no exceptions or that a list is the ONLY thing that goes into consideration.

And I am not making things up. A significant thing about the holy scripture is that there are multiple different was to interpret it.

But I have a question for you: do you think Gandhi is in heaven or hell? I’m not asking if you know, I am only asking what you think.

On one hand, Gandhi did a lot of good for the world. He was so willing to bring freedom to his people that he put his own life at risk. He made a point of campaigning for freedom in a strictly non-violent way, and in order to ensure his followers were also non-violent he went on a hunger strike and threatened to starve himself to death after protesters in Chauri Chaura lynched a police officer.

On the other hand, he did not believe in or worship Jesus Christ. He knew about Christianity, but honestly believed that the Hindu faith made more sense to him.

Do you believe his not being a Christian cancel out the good he did in the Eyes of God?

 

[frangiuliano115]

I already clarified, I am only against claiming that a list has no exceptions or that a list is the ONLY thing that goes into consideration.

And I am not making things up. A significant thing about the holy scripture is that there are multiple different was to interpret it.

But I have a question for you: do you think Gandhi is in heaven or hell? I’m not asking if you know, I am only asking what you think.

On one hand, Gandhi did a lot of good for the world. He was so willing to bring freedom to his people that he put his own life at risk. He made a point of campaigning for freedom in a strictly non-violent way, and in order to ensure his followers were also non-violent he went on a hunger strike and threatened to starve himself to death after protesters in Chauri Chaura lynched a police officer.

On the other hand, he did not believe in or worship Jesus Christ. He knew about Christianity, but honestly believed that the Hindu faith made more sense to him.

Do you believe his not being a Christian cancel out the good he did in the Eyes of God?

Hi Born in March,

You ask something difficult to respond to. The catholic church says that anyone truly searching for God will find Him, this is repeated in Romans 1. God was known from the beginning and could be found in the natural things so that His presence could be known. Also, our christian brothers share our faith (although it is not full, the CCC says).

The problem with Ghandi is that he knew about christianity. He turned it down for another religion - I don’t think it was Hindu in the end, although he was born a Hindu. Not sure about this. That would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I mean, he turned down God. Those other religions he knew about didn’t claim that their founder was God. I think this is pivotal.

I have friends who will tell you flat out that he’s lost. Others believe as you do that he must be saved because he was such a good person.

I don’t think being a good person is enough. I think that if you’ve been presented with Jesus you are required to believe in Him.

I and the Father are One. No one comes to the Father except by me. I am the way the truth and the life. John 3:16: That whosoever believeth in Him…

The bible is full of passages like this. That’s all I could say. We have to leave it to God to do the just thing. I refer you again to The Wedding Banquet in Mathew. Was Ghandi wearing the right clothing? It’s a difficult call BIM. I’m glad I don’t have to be the judge!

Just a quick comment on this. You say:

And I am not making things up. A significant thing about the holy scripture is that there are multiple different was to interpret it.

You’re right about this. A lot of the bible is self-explanatory. Some of it has to be explained and some of it could be explained different ways. You do have to decide who you want to trust with this and then stay on that road.

I’m glad you clarified re the list thing. I understand you better now. I do agree that God’s judgement will not be by using a list but by the condition of our heart and our belief in His Son. Oh. And we do have to keep the commandments too - but sin we will and I think if we’re His friend, He’ll cover for us. If we ask forgiveness. And repent.

Fran

 

[BornInMarch]

Fran, I’m glad I was able clarify what my thoughts are.

 

[Abba]

Hi Born in March,

You ask something difficult to respond to. The catholic church says that anyone truly searching for God will find Him, this is repeated in Romans 1. God was known from the beginning and could be found in the natural things so that His presence could be known. Also, our christian brothers share our faith (although it is not full, the CCC says).

The problem with Ghandi is that he knew about christianity. He turned it down for another religion - I don’t think it was Hindu in the end, although he was born a Hindu. Not sure about this. That would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I mean, he turned down God. Those other religions he knew about didn’t claim that their founder was God. I think this is pivotal.

I have friends who will tell you flat out that he’s lost. Others believe as you do that he must be saved because he was such a good person.

I don’t think being a good person is enough. I think that if you’ve been presented with Jesus you are required to believe in Him.

I and the Father are One. No one comes to the Father except by me. I am the way the truth and the life. John 3:16: That whosoever believeth in Him…

The bible is full of passages like this. That’s all I could say. We have to leave it to God to do the just thing. I refer you again to The Wedding Banquet in Mathew. Was Ghandi wearing the right clothing? It’s a difficult call BIM. I’m glad I don’t have to be the judge!

Just a quick comment on this. You say:

And I am not making things up. A significant thing about the holy scripture is that there are multiple different was to interpret it.

You’re right about this. A lot of the bible is self-explanatory. Some of it has to be explained and some of it could be explained different ways. You do have to decide who you want to trust with this and then stay on that road.

I’m glad you clarified re the list thing. I understand you better now. I do agree that God’s judgement will not be by using a list but by the condition of our heart and our belief in His Son. Oh. And we do have to keep the commandments too - but sin we will and I think if we’re His friend, He’ll cover for us. If we ask forgiveness. And repent.

Fran

This is not correct.

Perhaps this will help:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=143

 

[eazyduzit]

Scripture is not uncertain about this question. Rm 3:23, “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” Thus all are deserving of hell. But it is by God’s abundant mercy that no one need go there.

 

[eazyduzit]

Hi Born in March,

You ask something difficult to respond to. The catholic church says that anyone truly searching for God will find Him, this is repeated in Romans 1. God was known from the beginning and could be found in the natural things so that His presence could be known. Also, our christian brothers share our faith (although it is not full, the CCC says).

The problem with Ghandi is that he knew about christianity. He turned it down for another religion - I don’t think it was Hindu in the end, although he was born a Hindu. Not sure about this. That would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I mean, he turned down God. Those other religions he knew about didn’t claim that their founder was God. I think this is pivotal.

I have friends who will tell you flat out that he’s lost. Others believe as you do that he must be saved because he was such a good person.

I don’t think being a good person is enough. I think that if you’ve been presented with Jesus you are required to believe in Him.

I and the Father are One. No one comes to the Father except by me. I am the way the truth and the life. John 3:16: That whosoever believeth in Him…

The bible is full of passages like this. That’s all I could say. We have to leave it to God to do the just thing. I refer you again to The Wedding Banquet in Mathew. Was Ghandi wearing the right clothing? It’s a difficult call BIM. I’m glad I don’t have to be the judge!

Just a quick comment on this. You say:

And I am not making things up. A significant thing about the holy scripture is that there are multiple different was to interpret it.

You’re right about this. A lot of the bible is self-explanatory. Some of it has to be explained and some of it could be explained different ways. You do have to decide who you want to trust with this and then stay on that road.

I’m glad you clarified re the list thing. I understand you better now. I do agree that God’s judgement will not be by using a list but by the condition of our heart and our belief in His Son. Oh. And we do have to keep the commandments too - but sin we will and I think if we’re His friend, He’ll cover for us. If we ask forgiveness. And repent.

Fran

Do you really think you can keep the 10 commandments Fran? I probably break them all every day.

 

[frangiuliano115]

This is not correct.

Perhaps this will help:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=143

Hi Abba,

You’re going to have to tell me what I said that is wrong, I reread my post and I don’t find anything wrong with it.

Fran
Please don’t send me back to a CAF link or any link.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Do you really think you can keep the 10 commandments Fran? I probably break them all every day.

Well, I’m kinda sure you don’t break all of them Eazyduzit. Who have you murdered lately?
Let’s not get carried away!

Seriously,

If you break one commandment, you’ve broken them all.
If you live under the law, you shall be judged by the law.

The freed Israelites swore to Moses that they’d keep God’s commandments at the time of the Mosaic Covenant. Did they keep them? No. And I know you knew that answer.

Just as I know that you know my answer to you:

It’s impossible to keep the 10 commandments. But that doesn’t mean you throw them out and ignore them, as I’m also sure you also agree with.

The Hebrews had been slaves for about 400 yrs (not that whole time) and they’d forgotten about rules and regulations needed to build a civilization.

Also, the commandments were given to show man that he is a sinner. If you drive thru a red light and there’s no law against it, you didn’t break any laws.

So, that’s the long answer. Could have been longer, but it’s late here!

God bless us
Fran