Who else here likes the New Order mass, but would like to hear more traditional music at mass?

[MarionC]

I was also going to bring up the question “who picks the hymns for each Sunday Mass?”

My mother was a church organist for many years so, no disrespect to church musicians, but I find with older organists and singer, you get the more traditional hymns. My mother was given carte blanch by one pastor to pick whatever was appropriate, but the new pastor wanted total control and disregarded her expertise. It definitely depends on who is doing the picking!

In closing, I would have to say that if some of the younger musicians are picking the music, they might tend to pick something that showcases their talents - and those talents may be stretching the limits of what the congregation is able to sing!

 

[Cat]

Ooh! Ooh! Me!

Lately, I’ve had to go to the 11AM Mass after CCD in my parish, and I much prefer the usual 5PM on Saturday that I usually go to.

Our main organist usually manages to pick from the better selections in the OCP repertoire, so it’s not too bad on that front. Could be better, but it could be better just about anywhere.

The 11AM Mass, though, isn’t so lucky. It’s all guitar, so it’s a complete different set of people choosing the music(the Music Director doesn’t pick the hymns, the organist/guitarist does), and they pick from the, shall we say, lesser half. Their talent isn’t so hot, either - they use a woman with a lisp and a very screechy voice for the main voice, and then they have her sing all the optional descants, so it’s difficult for the congregation to sing along with the melody if they don’t know it, and makes it seem more like a performance.

And Cat, that’s another reason that I like the more traditional stuff. So much of it is both familiar to the congregation, and is IMHO easier to sing. A lot of the new stuff has weird rhythms and goes up and down the scale, and my range isn’t so huge. Much of the more traditional stuff has a more simple rhythm, like you said, and I’ve noticed the melodies are simply easier to sing.

Although I agree with you about singability of the older hymns, I will disagree about the range.

Last summer I picked out about a dozen hymns, both traditional and modern (Haas, Haagen, etc.), and compared ranges. I found that the older hymns are actually higher

 

[valient_Lucy]

Count me in.

 

[ethelzguy]

Josh, I agree that there are some new songs that are a pleasure to hear. Many times, though, our Leader of Song will pull out a song that is unharmonious and may be suitable for a soloist but not for the congregation at large.

Often, our Leader of Song will stop singing so that everyone else will sing, but I cringe because if the song is unharmonious or the notes are all over the place, it’s a mess!

I vote for a little more “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name” and a little less of this other stuff.

“Holy God, We Praise Thy Name” is certainly my all-time fave.

I think it might also have a lot to do with how it’s presented. One local parish has the most awful organist I’ve ever heard. Watching her play is like watching two polecats in a phone booth. Either she or the organ is getting whupped, but I’m not sure which.

But she sure does try, and that’s gotta count for something.

So, sometimes it can either be the song itself which pleases or annoys, or it can be the musician(s).

One of my other favorites is “You Are Mine”. Done nicely on a pipe organ it is wonderful, even if “modern”.

A favorite of the above mentioned organist is “Battle Hymn of the Republic” which, for me is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

In the end, I think much of the music issue rests subjectively with individuals. Any piece of music or instrument can produce very spiritual and reverent results depending on how it is presented. By the same token, the same music/instrument can be horrific when poorly done.

 

[ac_claire]

I would!

I actually e-mailed the musical director of my Cathedral requesting more traditional music, and less and of the guitar-folksy thing that they’ve been doing on the Sunday afternoon masses. I received a “terse” response lol. I guess I wasn’t too suprised, but I wish they hadn’t gotten defensive and/or I had been able to express myself better. Oh well.

 

[leonie]

I completely agree!!!

Though, it’s funny. One of the music groups that plays at our parish is guitar and piano based. Often they have a violin and sometimes some drums. The kids are all in their late teens and early 20s.

They play all traditional hymns and sing the Agnus Dei!!

So, I have a whole different opinion of the guitar Mass!

The leader of the group is a young lady (guitarist) who was homeschooled.

 

[ethelzguy]

I often wonder, when reading concerns/complaints about Mass music…how many parishes actually “kicked out” organists in favor of guitars, etc.?

Perhaps some parishes have guitars instead of nothing?

Organists, especially good ones are mighty hard to find these days.

While I’m sure that some pastors and/or music directors prefer the guitars, it may also be in many cases that the guitars are their only option other than acapella.

For those who lament a lack of organ music. Have any of you volunteered to play your parish organ? Were you rebuffed?

Just wondering.

 

[totustuus2345]

I know that this is a little off topic but I would also like a few more Latin Hymns in the Office…

Just my opinion, however there are a few of them…

XC
Patrick

 

[ethelzguy]

I am fascinated by the multitude of threads where folks keep insisting that the Church should change to suit their idea of what the Church should be, (more of this, less of that, vice-versa) but rant and rave about changes the Church makes that they don’t agree with.

 

[Aramis]

I know that this is a little off topic but I would also like a few more Latin Hymns in the Office…

Just my opinion, however there are a few of them…

XC
Patrick

Get a copy of the holy office in latin, then.

 

[tcraig]

I often wonder, when reading concerns/complaints about Mass music…how many parishes actually “kicked out” organists in favor of guitars, etc.?

Perhaps some parishes have guitars instead of nothing?

Organists, especially good ones are mighty hard to find these days.

While I’m sure that some pastors and/or music directors prefer the guitars, it may also be in many cases that the guitars are their only option other than acapella.

For those who lament a lack of organ music. Have any of you volunteered to play your parish organ? Were you rebuffed?

Just wondering.

As a former protestant, I know that organists are in short supply everywhere, and a good one is considered a true treasure. So I definitely think it’s true that many parishes lack an organist because they simply can’t find/afford to hire one.

However, most parishes that I’ve been to have these synthesizer-like pianos, which certainly can simulate the sound of an organ without the complication of learning to play one. Any good pianist can play one of those, and they actually sound pretty good. Most also have a regular piano, too.

What I don’t understand is why so many Catholic parishes ditched even the *piano *in favor of guitars. I’ve never attended any church (whether protestant or Catholic) where there weren’t several good piano players in the congregation, and several others who could certainly pitch in and do reasonably well if they had a few weeks’ notice. Yet there they are, those intrepid guitar players, strumming away like they’re at a Woodstock convention. I sometimes believe they’re there for no other reason than that they got there first.

When I entered the Church, it often felt as if I had entered some weird time warp, like the cultural revolution of the 1960’s had never left. I’m used to it now, but the guitar music played in so many parishes often leaves family/friends who visit with me raising their eyebrows. I joke that the Church moves slowly … so maybe in the next 10 years or so we’ll be reliving the 80’s at mass, LOL.

 

[totustuus2345]

Get a copy of the holy office in latin, then.

Don’t have the $$

• my spiritual director would not allow me.

XC
Pat

 

[Trad_Julia]

I also dislike guitars at mass, but I don’t think that there’s anything morally wrong with them being used.

I never said that I hated the Tridentine mass. I just have a hard time following it. I’m totally blind, and I’ve been that way since birth, so I obviously can’t read the missalette.

virtually High-fives

Dude! I’m totally blind too, from birth, and I share your dislike of guitars, as well as your wish for traditional music in a New Order Mass. EWTN’s masses are probably your best source for it right now, though I’ve not yet heard an Ave Maris Stella or a Tantum Ergo in Latin from them. You can listen all over the internet, (many EWTN aphiliates have live webcasts which include the Mass, mainly at 8 AM and noon eastern).

Also, to learn the Tridentine Mass, responses and all,

www.sanctamisa.org
has the entire thing written out in side by side Latin and English, complete with Sunday propers I believe. PM me if you’d like other sites for learning the contents of the Missal. I want to attend one, but there are no parishes in this area which offer it. Ah well. There’s always
www.traditionalcatholicradio.org
for hearing this Mass daily, following along with the Etext of the missal, and learning it that way.

 

[peary]

I like the New Order mass better than the Tridentine Latin mass, because it’s easier for me to follow. However, I’d love to see more perishes return to the traditional Latin hymns. Those hymns, particularly the ones written for choirs, are some of the best pieces of music ever written, and their lyrics, when translated, really touch me a whole lot more than the modern hymns sung today.

I’d love to go into a New Order perish on a Marian feast day, and hear Grieg’s “Ave Maris Stella,” which really hits home for me, and is musically one of the best pieces I’ve ever heard. What ever happened to Samuel Webbe’s “Tantum Ergo,” Mozart’s “Laudate Dominum,” Bach’s “Ave Maria,” Franc’s “Panis Angelicus” (another one of my all time favorites), etc?

How many of you would also like to see this music brought back into the mass, without going back to the Tridentine mass? Also, it would be really interesting to hear the New Order mass in Latin some times.

Vatican II never mandated that such music be taken OUT of the Novus Ordo. In fact, it specified that some parts of the Mass still be sung in Latin, that Gregorian Chant should continue to be incorporated into the Mass, and that the laity should still have the opportunity to sing the ‘old’ hymns, even in Latin. So, you have to scratch your head and ask, “What happened?”