Who Else Saw The Plates Besides Smith?

[BOMC]

Mother Teresa had faith, but it wasn’t of the sort, if I believe it, it will come. She is an example of how Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. In the darkest of nights, it is Faith, the Holy Spirit, God, who keeps you near to Him.

True, but that’s not all. Are Catholics afraid of the words of Paul:

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10: 17)

Does my faith increase when I read the Bible? Yes. Does it also increase when I read from The Book of Mormon? Yes it does. In fact, there is a whole chapter on growing faith that nails this angle to a “T”.

There is another verse that teaches you how to discern, saying, if it leads you to Christ, it is good. Does TBOM lead people to Jesus? Yes, that was the purpose of their writing and keeping records.

Therefore I ask, what is it you fear about TBOM? Use your intellect - if you became a follower of TBOM, would in your mind would that mean?

Thanks.

 

[RebeccaJ]

True, but that’s not all. Are Catholics afraid of the words of Paul:

Does my faith increase when I read the Bible? Yes. Does it also increase when I read from The Book of Mormon? Yes it does. In fact, there is a whole chapter on growing faith that nails this angle to a “T”.

There is another verse that teaches you how to discern, saying, if it leads you to Christ, it is good. Does TBOM lead people to Jesus? Yes, that was the purpose of their writing and keeping records.

Therefore I ask, what is it you fear about TBOM? Use your intellect - if you became a follower of TBOM, would in your mind would that mean?

Thanks.

Catholics do not fear faith. Prayer. Fasting, Scripture. Mass. All these things strengthen our faith.

BOMC, I was raised LDS, I’ve read the BoM, I’ve prayed about the BoM. I have read parts of it recently. I read parts of it every time a Mormon posts verses here. I don’t fear books.

Since a very large portion of it is copied from the Bible, and the rest is Rigdon and Spalding, why do you need it? If I became a follower of the BoM? Well why not? Why not follow the writings of L Ron Hubbard? Or, J.R. Tolkein?

Again, you are a Mormon (non-LDS) asking me to have faith for the sake of having it.

 

[BOMC]

Christ had no need to appear anywhere else in the world as He charged his Apostles thus…

In the words of Huckabee, if you make your God so small He can only fill your Bible, you got a small God. Or something to that effect.​

But we don’t have to take a logical, or philosophical angle on that, we have the Bible.

Does the Bible say another book would come forth? Yes it does.

Did Jesus say he had other sheep that he would go visit? Yes he did.

In fact, while visiting the BoM peoples he said he had yet other “sheep” that he still had to meet. So yes, as you said, “God loves everyone” and He will respond as His will provides.

His will was to provide a support for the Bible, and the only book of scripture that confirms the NT IS The Holy Book of Mormon. Why are you refusing God’s will?

.

 

[RebeccaJ]

In the words of Huckabee, if you make your God so small He can only fill your Bible, you got a small God. Or something to that effect.​

But we don’t have to take a logical, or philosophical angle on that, we have the Bible.

Does the Bible say another book would come forth? Yes it does.

Did Jesus say he had other sheep that he would go visit? Yes he did.

In fact, while visiting the BoM peoples he said he had yet other “sheep” that he still had to meet. So yes, as you said, “God loves everyone” and He will respond as His will provides.

His will was to provide a support for the Bible, and the only book of scripture that confirms the NT IS The Holy Book of Mormon. Why are you refusing God’s will?

.

Silliness. I can write a book that plagiarizes the Bible, and add my own thought to it. Will you make it scripture?

In case you weren’t aware, Catholics are not Bible only. The Church testifies of Christ.

 

[BOMC]

Catholics do not fear faith. Prayer. Fasting, Scripture. Mass. All these things strengthen our faith.

BOMC, I was raised LDS, I’ve read the BoM, I’ve prayed about the BoM. I have read parts of it recently. I read parts of it every time a Mormon posts verses here. I don’t fear books.

Since a very large portion of it is copied from the Bible, and the rest is Rigdon and Spalding, why do you need it? If I became a follower of the BoM? Well why not? Why not follow the writings of L Ron Hubbard? Or, J.R. Tolkein?

Again, you are a Mormon (non-LDS) asking me to have faith for the sake of having it.

Do me and other BoM Christians a favor, do not filter everything we say through your Mormon blinders. I fear you are too sensitive still to objectively consider anything associated with the Mormon’s, including TBOM.

Reason’s to follow it are:

God says to.
The Bible says to.
Jesus said to.
Contains the instructions and prayer for baptism.
Contains the instructions and prayer for communion.
Confirms the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus.

That’s just for starters. If you think you were being taught TBOM as a Mormon, you were mistaken. They provide a teacher with a manual every forth year and say “have the class learn this” which dictation and surrender of free will cut-off the learning by the Spirit of God as TBOM instructs meetings to be led. Thus, again, we proclaim that not a single Mormon teaching is supported by TBOM.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Do me and other BoM Christians a favor, do not filter everything we say through your Mormon blinders. I fear you are too sensitive still to objectively consider anything associated with the Mormon’s, including TBOM.

Reason’s to follow it are:

God says to.
The Bible says to.
Jesus said to.
Contains the instructions and prayer for baptism.
Contains the instructions and prayer for communion.
Confirms the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus.

That’s just for starters. If you think you were being taught TBOM as a Mormon, you were mistaken. They provide a teacher with a manual every forth year and say “have the class learn this” which dictation and surrender of free will cut-off the learning by the Spirit of God as TBOM instructs meetings to be led. Thus, again, we proclaim that not a single Mormon teaching is supported by TBOM.

Do me a favor and stop acting like you aren’t Mormon. You are a Mormon. Non-LDS, yes, but Mormon still. Of the variety that believes you got something better going on than the LDS Church. Fine. Believe it all you like. I don’t.

 

[BOMC]

Silliness. I can write a book that plagiarizes the Bible, and add my own thought to it. Will you make it scripture?

In case you weren’t aware, Catholics are not Bible only. The Church testifies of Christ.

You like to use the word “plagiarize” but I’m not sure Jesus would take kindly to being called a “plagiarists” just because he cited from the OT, like other apostles and prophets did.

What you should note, is WHY BoM prophets labored to copy those words. They did it so antagonists like you would have interpretations of Isaiah that even you could not deny. Why are you denying their interpretations?

No ye not that God can speak to more nation than one? Honestly, I see Him speaking to a multitude of priests and ministers all over the world, and yet you even mock the LDS concept of an apostasy. Well then, stop acting like you believe in one. If there is a prayer, a believer HE WILL SPEAK! Gee.

No ye know that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and if He spoke to one nation, He can speak to another, and in the last days when a belief in the Son of God is low, that He can bring another witness to quiet their disbelief!

Praise God for being so thoughtful as to provide a Second Witness, that no one need question the divinity of Christ ever again - not the Muslim, Jew, or Hindu. Praise God and give thanks!

.

 

[BOMC]

Do me a favor and stop acting like you aren’t Mormon. You are a Mormon. Non-LDS, yes, but Mormon still. Of the variety that believes you got something better going on than the LDS Church. Fine. Believe it all you like. I don’t.

Don’t flatter yourself, that you know anything what I or other BoM Christians believe. Have you even been to our web sites? In fact, tell us where you got your definition of who a Mormon is?

Thanks.

 

[dianaiad]

If you start going down this idea that Jesus made a special stop in the Americas, well, why didn’t make a special stop in London? Or Moscow? Or Johannesburg? Did He intend to leave these people and places out of Salvation?
.

At the time Jesus lived, Rebecca, those places (Londinium, for instance…) were well known. People went there all the time. So were the cities now known as Moscow and Johannesburg. There were many trade routes that reached across Europe and Asia…the bible reached them, certainly, within a couple of hundred years; long before the 1400’s when accepted history tells us that Catholicism did its number on the Americas.

So I’ll ask you; if He did not intend to leave these people and places out of Salvation (the Americas, that is) why do you think He let a millennium and a half go by before He let His gospel show up there?

 

[jim1130]

Do me a favor and stop acting like you aren’t Mormon. You are a Mormon. Non-LDS, yes, but Mormon still. Of the variety that believes you got something better going on than the LDS Church. Fine. Believe it all you like. I don’t.

Clarification, please: I thought Mormons and Latter Day Saints were one in the same and that “Mormons” preferred the term LDS over Mormon. May you please clarify for me? Thank you.

 

[jim1130]

At the time Jesus lived, Rebecca, those places (Londinium, for instance…) were well known. People went there all the time. So were the cities now known as Moscow and Johannesburg. There were many trade routes that reached across Europe and Asia…the bible reached them, certainly, within a couple of hundred years; long before the 1400’s when accepted history tells us that Catholicism did its number on the Americas.

So I’ll ask you; if He did not intend to leave these people and places out of Salvation (the Americas, that is) why do you think He let a millennium and a half go by before He let His gospel show up there?

You need read only the Early Church Fathers to put to rest the Apostasy lie.

Evangelization began immediately after Pentecost. For starters:

St. James, St. Paul, and St. Torquatus went to Spain in the first century.

St. Philip went to Libya in the first century.

St. Philip went to Greece in the first century.

St. Bartholomew and St. Thomas went to India in the first century.

St. Fronto and St. George wer first century bishops in France.

Early church Father St. Irenaeus went to Gaul in the second century

St. Ursinus, in the 3rd century, was the first bishop of Bourges, France.

 

[pnewton]

Do me and other BoM Christians a favor, do not filter everything we say through your Mormon blinders.

Catholic website, remember? Forgot where you were? Of course we are going go understand anything from a Catholic point of view, although if name-calling makes you feel better, call it blinders.

 

[pnewton]

Any event in history can be viewed by the Holy Spirit. Do you have the Spirit?

The same sort of catch-22 can be made by the Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist and Jim Jones. We simply can not go by our feelings and what sounds good and call it faith. Jesus left plenty of evidence his first time. Why would he come here to America and hide all the evidence? In other words, why believe you and not every cult leader that comes down the road?

 

[BOMC]

The same sort of catch-22 can be made by the Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist and Jim Jones. We simply can not go by our feelings and what sounds good and call it faith. Jesus left plenty of evidence his first time. Why would he come here to America and hide all the evidence? In other words, why believe you and not every cult leader that comes down the road?

I’ll repeat what I already said, does the thing lead you to Christ? Does it encourage you to do good. Both of these principles are laid out in TBOM. And of course, will God answer your prayer, if so, HOW? Again you won’t tell us how He does for you, but I did detail how He did for others in scripture. Is it so hard to take the two together, and not one or the other?

I have hundreds of stories of people getting their prayers answered after reading and praying about TBOM. How dare you try and discount such glorious experiences with your relentless attacks on TBOM and such spiritual experiences.

Show me what is so bad in TBOM. Show me…gee!

.

 

[pnewton]

I’ll repeat what I already said, does the thing lead you to Christ? Does it encourage you to do good. Both of these principles are laid out in TBOM

So if a cult leader leads one to feel closer to Christ and encourages one to do good, then that is okay regardless of the truth?

How dare you try and discount such glorious experiences with your relentless attacks on TBOM and such spiritual experiences.

Catholic website, remember? The Church does not recognize this book as anything other than fiction. And for me, it is not all about the “glorious experience.” Such a criteria also applied to LSD use, or go back to the light socket.

 

[Bill_Pick]

but no one saw the plates

It was God Himself, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, who warns us at the ‘Sermon on the Mount’ - “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly are ravening wolves.” (Matt. 7:15)

 

[RebeccaJ]

At the time Jesus lived, Rebecca, those places (Londinium, for instance…) were well known. People went there all the time. So were the cities now known as Moscow and Johannesburg. There were many trade routes that reached across Europe and Asia…the bible reached them, certainly, within a couple of hundred years; long before the 1400’s when accepted history tells us that Catholicism did its number on the Americas.

So I’ll ask you; if He did not intend to leave these people and places out of Salvation (the Americas, that is) why do you think He let a millennium and a half go by before He let His gospel show up there?

They are not left out. Never were. That is your LDS interpretation.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You like to use the word “plagiarize” but I’m not sure Jesus would take kindly to being called a “plagiarists” just because he cited from the OT, like other apostles and prophets did.

Jesus cited from the KJV of the Bible? You really believe this?

What you should note, is WHY BoM prophets labored to copy those words. They did it so antagonists like you would have interpretations of Isaiah that even you could not deny. Why are you denying their interpretations?

And BoM people, in the Americas, hundreds of years before the existence of the KJV, also copied from the KJV? It just get better.

 

[BOMC]

For a site on faith, you two have no faith, or a belief in a living God, who is able to do what He called A Marvelous Work and A Wonder.

How else can you described what Isaiah said would come forth, except as Marvelous! Lo, their voices are crying from the dust, for they did follow Christ, and because they were not where Jesus would come, they did know him by name, and their prophets were shown the virgin Mary, the preparer John the Baptist, the twelve apostles, etc.

And fittingly, Nephi was shown the day when TBOM would come forth and nailed it to a “T” what you two have been saying. “A Bible, a Bible, we already have a Bible and don’t need any other Bibles…”

Your pride for a limited God is actually quite the contrary! At least you won’t be able to say no one tried to share the Word of God as found in TBOM, or the references from the Bible about it, or the over twenty eye witnesses who saw it come about.

I wish you both peace in the Lord.

.

 

[MelanieAnne]

The “ignore” feature works really well. I recommend it. I know that those who want to come to the forum and relentlessly pursue their agenda will say that when I ignore them I am “hiding” or “afraid” or some such nonsense. It doesn’t matter. The opinion of a total stranger is not important to me when that total stranger is trying to divert me from my faith in Jesus. The accusations that I may be “afraid” or “hiding” are merely a provocative means to continue to engage in dialogue, nothing more. We do not need to fall for these little devices.

We all have only so much time and energy. We can put that time and energy to productive use, or we can fritter it away having meaningless exchanges with such folks. (I think they’re sometimes called “trolls” but I’m not sure what a “troll” is in this context.) We’re not going to change their minds, we’re not going to elevate their understanding of anything, and they most assuredly are not going to change our minds about being Catholics.

Hence, engaging in such exchanges is an utter waste of our time and energy. The “ignore” feature can, at times, be your best friend!