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phoenix3212
Guest
He is defending God’s word, and more completely than you. You only adhere to part of it (Scripture) while we have all of it–Scripture and Tradition.
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Eleve
Guest
They’re not the same. The Oriental Orthodox Churches split off from the rest over the Council of Chalcedon. The Assyrian Church of the East split even earlier, after the Council of Ephesus.
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Stouts989
Guest
But what about John 14:6?
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
That’s a pretty exclusive statement by Jesus Himself.
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Eleve
Guest
It doesn’t really say how we get to Jesus to go through him, though. He could still save some who were not Christians on Earth.
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Stouts989
Guest
Romans 10:9-10
if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Seems pretty clear to me…and this is just two verses.
I don’t see anywhere in scripture where it says someone can be saved after death…did I miss something?
I also find it interesting that the CC believes it is possible for people in other faiths to be saved and go to heaven when they hold the view that baptism is necessary for salvation. Whether its baptism by water, martyr, or desire…none would apply to anyone outside the Christian faith.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life…”
I anyone truly believed this that was practicing a different faith other than Christianity…wouldn’t be practicing that faith and would come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.
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geometer
Guest
Jesus here is simply refering to the meaning of his own name. What he is saying is that one can only know God as father by being delivered by the father, then you have arrived as an offspring…
po18guy
Well-known member
This teaching is based our limited knowledge of God’s unfathomable mercy. It takes into consideration those who, through no fault of their own, never heard the name or the truth of Christ. It is called invincible ignorance. Consider also the following words of our Lord:
Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
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sambos671
Guest
Out of both my post 102 and 103 thats all you had to comment on? If you read the whole post you would see that I say he meant everyone of us but at the time speaking specifically to his disciples. I try to show you how the church is established by Jesus and is given authority to teach. Which is what the great commission is about. I use scripture and logic and history to show you how it fits and how the CC is the Apostolic Church that Christ established.
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kalt
Guest
But you don’t realize that there is more than one kind of baptism.
I really wish non-Catholics who don’t know much about Catholicism would ask instead of tell.
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kalt
Guest
From the CCC
**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **
[846](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/846.htm’)
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/848.htm’) "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
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kalt
Guest
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kalt
Guest
No, I don’t think that was the point, Christalone. No one here is calling you wise.
I think the point was more along the lines of, “Take a hike.”
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kalt
Guest
Why are you quoting and not responding?
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kalt
Guest
I hope all non-Catholics on this board read this post. They need to understand this if they’re going to debate Catholicism.
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jpaul1953
Guest
The Protestants follow the KJV in most cases. The KJV is considered the inspired word of God written in Old English. The original contained the deuterocanonical books, seven books which include Macabees 1&2. The Church believes the KJV eventually took these books out because the Hebrews later withdrew them and Macabees implies to the reader that there is a place where dead sinners go to that we can pray for, purgatory.
Basically the Hebrews took the books out because they were not written in Hebrew, they were written in Greek. So, these seven books are called the second (deutero) canon(canonical) because they were written in Greek just like the Septuagint, which was the first complete compilation of the old testament which included the second canon, the Apocrapha as the Protestants would say.
Basically the Hebrews took the books out because they were not written in Hebrew, they were written in Greek. So, these seven books are called the second (deutero) canon(canonical) because they were written in Greek just like the Septuagint, which was the first complete compilation of the old testament which included the second canon, the Apocrapha as the Protestants would say.
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kalt
Guest
I just read your post again–carefully this time. Forget what I said above!
And see the post above for info on non-Christians and Heaven.
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sambos671
Guest
Ah but note in Qumran we found Hebrew text for Tobit and some other apocryphal books. So who is correct the Massorites? Or the LXX?
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jpaul1953
Guest
From the CCC
**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **
[846](javascript
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascript
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sambos671
Guest
To whom do you speak?
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kalt
Guest
And didn’t they find some of those disputed books written in Hebrew? Kind of refutes the reason for taking them out in the first place, doesn’t it?
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