Who gave the world the Bible?

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jpaul1953 said:
Mannyfit75,

Wow.

To the best of my knowledge, Jesus, along with His apostles, used the Septuagint for His reference point. I believe I read somewhere that the reason many of the Jews returned to the old ‘works of the law’, 618 commandments?, versus the ‘works of Love’ that the Church teaches us is because they were reading the other Old Testament. So they went back to the first covenant, pushing the new covenant aside.

May God guide us all.
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And, Jesus did not quote from a couple of the Protestant books of the OT. So, where does that leave us? Once you begin ripping books out, where do you stop?
 
po18guy said:
And, Jesus did not quote from a couple of the Protestant books of the OT. So, where does that leave us? Once you begin ripping books out, where do you stop?
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Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. These OT books are not quoted in the NT, so does that make them any less scriptural? The NT is incomplete and tells us so (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40), so the argument that Jesus had to quote scripture holds no water.
 
Bill_Pick said:
So are you saying the Holy Spirit guides all these Christian to the truth
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
And off thread But you will be please show that the Chruch said in another post that Cathlocs wordhip Mary,please show me this writteing that you can get from the Church or any prove you have
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Amen!!!. Absolutely great Bill Pick, I am keeping this for further reference if that’s OK with you. God Bless, Memaw
 
TheQuestioner said:
I made a statement earlier I have now come to think was a bit misleading.

I said that the Catholic way is the easiest way to enter heaven, though makes it hard to live on earth.
what i truly meant was
I said that the Catholic way is the best way to enter heaven, though makes it hardest to live on earth.
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I agree that the best way to gain Heaven is the Catholic way, but I am not so sure I agree its the hardest way to live on earth.

Life can be pretty tough for anyone, Catholic or not, but I have found over the years that my Catholic Faith has helped me through some pretty rough times. When I was 25, I lost my Mom. My Faith helped me through that. A year later we lost a baby boy and four months later I was a widow with 4 little ones to care for. My husband died in an accident. I was devastated. I went to bed every night, praying desperately that God would help me thru the next day so I could take care of my children who were suffering the loss of their Father. He sent me a priest that had lost his father when young so he knew what my kids were going thru. He was an answer to a mothers prayer. Several years later, I remarried and a few months later I got very sick and nearly died. A couple years after that we had a baby boy and when he was only 5 months old, my second husband suffered 2 heart attacks, 6 weeks apart. He was only 31 years old. He was disabled from them, and 3 years later we had another baby boy, my 7th. A couple years later we had another baby boy that died and I nearly hemorrhaged to death on the way to the hospital. And 4 years later we had another baby boy. When he was 7 years old my husband died from congestive heart failure after suffering heart problems for 15 years. Once again I was alone with young children to care for. I could never have endured all this without my Catholic Faith. The Blessed Mother was there with me all the time. The Rosary was my consolation. Many a night I fell asleep saying it. I didn’t tell you all this to have you feel sorry for me, I just wanted you to know that God will see you through whatever life throws at you and and life can be enjoyable again. I have been a widow for 25 years now and have 7 wonderful sons and 2 in Heaven waiting for me. 9 grandchildren and 3 Gr. grandchildren. Life is great. My daughter-in-laws are like daughters to me. Both my husbands were converts and my daughter- in- laws too. I shudder to think what life would have been like without my Faith and the Sacraments to help me thru this. You see my Grandmother and Grandfather were converts too. I thank God every day for the lady that brought them into the Catholic Faith, she was their oldest son’s 6th grade teacher. One of their sons became a Priest. They have a grandson that is a priest also. Thank God. God Bless, Memaw.
 
phoenix3212 said:
Look at history. Who split off from who? Did the Catholic Church split from the Orthodox? No. The reverse occurred. Therefore, the original group (the Catholic Church) stands correct in its claim.
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If you look at history you can see its the CATHLOICS CHURCH I think the split was in 1051 ad APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION started right ofter
 
Let me come in here although belatedly.
Stouts989 said:
In Luke 11 Jesus tells us what OT is credited as the Word of God. Another reference is made in Luke 24:44

Luke 11:49-51 (with emphases).

“For this reason also** the wisdom of God** said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.”

Jesus says, “from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah.”

Now, there’s a problem with this statement…Zechariah isn’t the last martyr in the OT, if we refer to what both Catholics and Protestants refer to as the OT testament in its current order. Historically Jeremiah is the last martyr in the OT…not Zechariah!

So why would Jesus say from Abel to Zechariah when referring to “the wisdom of God” or the Word of God, OT?

Jesus wasn’t crediting the Septuagint (Greek translation of the OT, which the Catholic and Protestant Bibles are based on) as the written Word of God…what He says as the Wisdom of God. Jesus is referring to the Tanach as the written Word of God in this passage.
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If the Tanach is “THE WORD OF GOD”, that makes Jesus’ statement extra Biblical and worthless.

placido
 
Christalone said:
Roman Catholics often say that it was their church that gave us the Bible. They sometimes claim this when defending their “sacred tradition” so that they might support extra biblical teachings such as purgatory, penance, indulgences, and Mary worship.
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I don’t think you did consider what you were saying before writing it down. There is no way to know what is “extra Biblical” if you don’t have tradition to tell you what is Biblical. That is the irrefutable fact.
Christalone said:
They often say the only way the Christian church knew what books are to be included in the Canon of Scripture was because it was revealed by word-of-mouth in the early church; that is, by the tradition of the Catholic Church.
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If you disagree, give us the alternative (meaning, you have to give us the chapter and the verses with the list of canonical books).
Christalone said:
Unfortunately, this argument implies that tradition is superior in Scripture. Of course, we are not saying that the Roman Catholic church teaches that tradition is above Scripture. But when sacred tradition is claimed to be the thing by which Scripture is given, then tradition is inadvertently the thing that gives blessing and approval to the Bible.
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I think the relationship between a biology teacher and a book of biology can best help understand the relationship between Scripture and Apostolic Tradition. Any claim that the book of biology is enough and that a biology teacher is not needed, is simply untenable.
Christalone said:
The Bible tells us to obey the word of God, to not go beyond the written word, so that we might not make mistakes in what is true.
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The problem is you equating “Word of God = Bible”. I challenge you to show me a verse that says THE BIBLE is the word of God (not that I am denying this, but there is simply no proof of this from the Bible).
Christalone said:
Unfortunately, the problem with an elevated status of Roman Catholic church tradition is that it results in various justifications of it’s non-biblical teachings such as prayer to Mary, purgatory, indulgences, penance, works righteousness, etc. Because it has deviated from trusting God’s word alone, it has ventured into unscriptural areas.
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Separate threads for prayer to Mary, purgatory etc is preferable.
Christalone said:
Nevertheless, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? No, it did not.
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Good. Now tell us who gave us the Bible. There must be someone who made the decision to include 46 OT books and 27 NT books. The alternative is to claim that Jesus left us a complete canon or that He later came back and revealed the canon to someone (name please?)

placido
 
po18guy said:
Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. These OT books are not quoted in the NT, so does that make them any less scriptural? The NT is incomplete and tells us so (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40), so the argument that Jesus had to quote scripture holds no water.
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Hey po18guy,

Hope things are well.

If you are referring to me, my point on Jesus’ quoting Scripture is that the only Scrpiture he could quote from was the Septuagint or the like.

For instance, in Romans (? chapter/verse) it says : " It is written that none are good, not one". Many non-Catholics take this to mean that none of us are deserving of Heaven, thereby stating that we as a people are not responsible for what we do since God says we’re no good. As seen many times before, this verse is incorrectly understood…

The verse starts off with ‘it is written’. This means it came from earlier Scriptures. In this case it is referring to Psalm 53 speaking about fools, that none are good, not one. It is not speaking about the righteous, just the fools.

Anyway, if God says we who obey Him deserve Salvation, then we deserve Salvation. That is His call not some indivdual’s call.

Just like when Jesus say:’ My God, My God why have you forsaken me", Jesus is referring to Psalm 22, the death of an innocent man. He is letting us know that His death was foretold in the Septuagint, or the like. Not saying that Jesus’ suffering was more than any of us could bear.

May God guide us always.

jpaul1953
 
Christalone said:
And FYI there is no 'self-explaining" bible. The Holy Spirit guides Christians to the truth, not man nor a man’s church. If this is believed then it is placed above God.
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The Holy spirit guides Christians to the truth? Even when they preach 30 000 different truths? How many truths are there?
Christalone said:
I do not have the full truth as neither do you, And simply as you believe differently than I, that does not give you truth over me.
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So, according to you truth doesn’t exist. Are you a relativist?

placido
 
placido said:
I don’t think you did consider what you were saying before writing it down. There is no way to know what is “extra Biblical” if you don’t have tradition to tell you what is Biblical. That is the irrefutable fact.

If you disagree, give us the alternative (meaning, you have to give us the chapter and the verses with the list of canonical books).

I think the relationship between a biology teacher and a book of biology can best help understand the relationship between Scripture and Apostolic Tradition. Any claim that the book of biology is enough and that a biology teacher is not needed, is simply untenable.

The problem is you equating “Word of God = Bible”. I challenge you to show me a verse that says THE BIBLE is the word of God (not that I am denying this, but there is simply no proof of this from the Bible).

Separate threads for prayer to Mary, purgatory etc is preferable.

Good. Now tell us who gave us the Bible. There must be someone who made the decision to include 46 OT books and 27 NT books. The alternative is to claim that Jesus left us a complete canon or that He later came back and revealed the canon to someone (name please?)

placido
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Who gave us the Bible,did it just fall out of the shy.;; and please trell us why YOU say Cathloic worship mary,is that just another lie
 
Christalone said:
Evidently not or there would have been no break away.
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Christalone, What does the break up have to do with the Bible,the Bible just fell out of the sky right and Cathloic worship Mary if people listen to You,will you please back up anything you say with some fact

PS> Are you saying the break up was over the Bible or did they break up over Mary. Fact PLEASE
 
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and** the Word was God**.” (John 1:1)
 
Placido said
“extra Biblical”
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I said
“extra Biblical” teachings
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totally two completely different things. Amazing how one merely looks at a portion of a statement twisting it to change the subject.

Sounds like the thinking problem is not in my court?!
 
Christalone said:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and** the Word was God**.” (John 1:1)
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Weak. The Greek word “logos” (λόγος) does not refer to a book. Unless you think that the Bible is God, which would be an interesting form of idolatry indeed.
 
Eleve said:
Weak. The Greek word “logos” (λόγος) does not refer to a book. Unless you think that the Bible is God, which would be an interesting form of idolatry indeed.
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God’s Word is weak?
 
Eleve said:
Weak. The Greek word “logos” (λόγος) does not refer to a book. Unless you think that the Bible is God, which would be an interesting form of idolatry indeed.
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no more so than drinking blood and eating Jesus’ flesh!
 
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