Who has the possibility of salvation?

[steve-b]

Latin,

All the pages you generate, and the scripture passages you copple together, apply to the few who take advantage of them. Not to the remainder who don’t. THAT’s why Jesus said only a few are saved. And He didn’t correct that point.

There is no such thing as everybody is saved.

 

[steve-b]

Heaven was opened at the moment Jesus fulfilled the scriptures and died on that cross. The human heart that is open to the Love Jesus has for all of us gives one the grace to know HIM.

Yet It didn’t work for His own disciples, who had a real problem accepting His teaching, and actually told Him so, to His face, and walked away from Him not to follow Him again.

Bible Gateway passage: John 6:35-66 - Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out. For I have...

www.biblegateway.com

anna:

In one instant His reply to the one next to Him on the cross was 'today you will be with Me in paradise." God Bless.

The “good thief” in the few words he spoke, entire courses could be taught on what he did.

Example:
He acknowledged Jesus is God to the other thief, thereby rebuking that thief
The good thief acknowledged his sins and that he deserved what he got
He asked Jesus for mercy

ALL while experiencing excruciating pain himself hanging on his cross next to Jesus

What an example of faith under phenomenal duress !

 

[anna]

I respectfully disagree about Jesus’s disciples leaving Him never to follow Him again…I suggest you reread John 6 35-66. Also after the Resurrection of Jesus. Concerning the good thief he said to the other one’Can’t you see this Man has does nothing, Jesus remember me when you come into Your Kingdom’’ Jesus replied "Today you will be with Me in Paradise’ Yes the one who said that believed Jesus and Jesus through His pain,His drops of blood falling in His eyes through His tears and torment turned to the one who saiid this and pardoned him whose faith saved him. GOD BLESS

 

[steve-b]

I respectfully disagree about Jesus’s disciples leaving Him never to follow Him again…I suggest you reread John 6 35-66.

and what are you disagreeing with? I quoted the passage.
Jn 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

anna:

Also after the Resurrection of Jesus. Concerning the good thief he said to the other one’Can’t you see this Man has does nothing, Jesus remember me when you come into Your Kingdom’’ Jesus replied "Today you will be with Me in Paradise’ Yes the one who said that believed Jesus and Jesus through His pain,His drops of blood falling in His eyes through His tears and torment turned to the one who saiid this and pardoned him whose faith saved him. GOD BLESS

The “good thief” demonstrated his faith under tremendous duress, and in what he did, and the few words he spoke, an entire theology course could be taught.

 

[anna]

Steve, agree with you as far .as the" good thief"I am not a theologian, On the rest let us agree to disagree take care and God Bless.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Vatican II was a huge mistake and dead wrong. It was an attempt at being PC. Should never of happened.

 

[steve-b]

Steve, agree with you as far .as the" good thief"I am not a theologian, On the rest let us agree to disagree take care and God Bless.

anna,
What part of this do you disagree with?

Jn 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

Maybe you’re thinking of the 12 who were also called disciples. Only one of THEM no longer followed Him

 

[Latin]

Latin,

All the pages you generate, and the scripture passages you copple together, apply to the few who take advantage of them. Not to the remainder who don’t. THAT’s why Jesus said only a few are saved. And He didn’t correct that point.

There is no such thing as everybody is saved.

God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

It seems to me your post sounds like an un-regenerated carnal man being slave of sin in the state of spiritual death can take advantage of God’s salvation by choosing God.
.

Yet the Scripture is clear:
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.
An un-regenerated man can never choose God, only God can and God choose a HELPLESS un-regenerated/carnal man into His service/salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition and without regard to any future supernatural merits, furthermore His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. – DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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GOD IS THE ONE WHO RESCUE AND SAVES THE HELPLESS PEOPLE FROM SLAVERY OF SIN AND FROM SPIRITUAL DEATH
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CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified.

Explaining Justification
CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and obedience to God’s will are given to us.
.

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming totally from God’s decision and surpassing all power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.
.

FR. WILLIAM MOST TEACHES THE SAME ABOVE THEOLOGICAL FACTS

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most

What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination?

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

Meaning, man does NOTHING and can do NOTHING to enter the state of Initial Justification. – Theological FACT.
.

COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.
.
.

THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.
.
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.
THE PROCESS OF THE GRACE OF GOD’S CALL (1996-1998)

First: At God’s call, at our Initial Justification, God PERFORMS a heart transplant, etc.
.
Ez.36:25-28;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU [our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation] TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

28 Then “you will live in the land,” I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. End quote.
.
.

Second: At the point when God gives His grace of Initial Justification/Salvation, God immediately touches and DIRECTLY MOVES THE HEART OF MAN by orienting towards to freely accept and freely choose His grace of Initial Justification/Salvation, every man always responds freely and positively.

This is an infallible work of God in man’s HEART and WILL and man always positively respond and freely cooperates.
.

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
.
Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
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Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.
SUMMARY

All knowledge of the essence of salvation hangs on the following two theological facts:
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FIRST THEOLOGICAL FACT

An un-regenerated carnal man is enmity against God, he is a slave of sin in the state of spiritual death.
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He can accept NOTHING from the spirit if God and he cannot choose God. – John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you. Please see also: Rom.8:6-8; 1 Cor.2:14; Col.2:13; etc.
.

If God doesn’t give an un-regenerated carnal man His Grace of Call (1996-1998) and His special grace The Gif of Final Perseverance the results of this is, eternal condemnation of a helpless man. – DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.

Every un-regenerated carnal man who has received The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) and God’s special grace The Gif of Final Perseverance, infallible protected from dying in the state of mortal sin and they all have everlasting life. – DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
.

So whose responsibility to give every un-regenerated carnal man His Grace of Call (1996-1998) and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance???
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The answer cannot be other then; it is God’s sole responsibility. – NO ONE can deny or contradict this THEOLOGICAL FACT!!!
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Only God can resurrect a dead man, regardless he is dead spiritually or physically.
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SECOND THEOLOGICAL FACT
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NO ONE can reject/resist The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance.
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If even one person in all Christian history would/could resist The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.
.

So we can be sure, God’s omniscience is safe and the above two graces are irresistible.
.

So NO ONE can say, people goes to hell because they reject/resists The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance which would infallible protect them from dying in the state of mortal sin.
.

Of course there are graces we can and sometimes we all reject, these kind of graces doesn’t effects our salvation, but negatively effects our glory and position in heaven, so we pay for it.

Our glory and position in heaven is determined by God according to the outcome of the judgment of our Works of Love.
.

Our cooperation with resistible graces are not produced by God’s operation, our cooperation only ENABLED by God’s operation, and we freely decide to cooperate or sometimes we can freely choose not to cooperate.
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While our cooperation with irresistible graces (our salvation depends on this graces) always PRODUCED by God’s operation and we ALWAYS FREELY decide to cooperate with these graces.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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You said Steve:
Jesus said only a few are saved. And He didn’t correct that point.
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I SHOW YOU STEVE:

God already demonstrated His ability of Universal Salvation in Nineveh.
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FIRST: GOD PROMISE Universal Hell to the people of Nineveh!!!

Jonah 3:4; Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
.
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SECOND: GOD’S CORRECTION OF HIS PROMISE – God performed Universal Salvation in Nineveh!!!

Jonah 4:11; And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?
.
.
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WITH THE SAME ABOVE PRINCIPLE GOD WILL SAVE EVERYONE
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FIRST: GOD’S PROMISE – Apart from a few people, practically Universal Hell!!!

Matt.7:13-14; Apart from a few people I throw everyone to hell.
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.
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SECOND: GOD’S CORRECTION / REPEATED PROMISES of Universal Salvation!!!
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Rom.5:18; Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, even so one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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1 Cor.15:22; For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
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Eph.1:9-11; He made known to us the mystery of his will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ,

1. to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfilment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth in Christ.
2. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
   .

Col.1:20; And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.
GOD’S PROCLAMATION OF HIS WILL – Universal Salvation!!!
.
2 Pet.3:9; The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness.
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
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Of course the conditions of our repentance are, FIRST to receive God’s grace of Justification CCCS (1990-1991) and The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)].
.

In FACT God’s grace of Justification CCCS (1990-1991) and The Grace of God’s Call are irresistible graces. – Predestination of the elect, which is a DE FIDE Dogma + THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita.
.

COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.
.

God’s grace of Justification CCCS (1990-1991) and The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) PRECEDES our first repentance!!! – This theological FACT alone more then enough proof of Universal Salvation.
.
.

Do you understand Steve?
God wants all of us to repent, but for us to repent, FIRST we need to receive God’s IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE graces of Justification CCCS (1990-1991) and The IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) which graces (not just enable us to repent but) PRODUCE our first repentance.

.
The above two graces PRECEDES our first repentance, with other words, NO ONE can repent without FIRST to receive the above two graces, because without the above two graces, we are un-regenerated, slaves of sin and we are spiritually dead in our sins.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
.
Universal Salvation 100 % depends on God’s will and his actions in us.
.

If God gives everyone His IRRESISTIBLE and IRREVOCABLE graces of (1) God’s grace of Justification, (2)The Grace of God’s Call (3) God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, then Universal Salvation is an absolute certainty.
.
.

IN FACT, according to the Predestination of the elect, which is a DE FIDE Dogma, all three graces given at our Initial Justification, (1) God’s grace of Justification CCCS (1990-1991), (2)The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998) and (3) God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance are not only IRRESISTIBLE graces, but these three graces are IRREVOCABLE graces as well.
.

PROOF
If even one elect in all Christian history, would/could resist the above graces would end up in hell and God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).
.
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Another Bible verse which proclaims God’s will of Universal Salvation.

1 Tim.2:3-4; This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
.

God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[Jamie5]

Every human being has the possibility.

 

[steve-b]

Latin,

Jesus who will do all judging, answered all the pages you generate and passages you quote in those responses.

Matthew 7:13-14 , Mt 7:13-14 RSVCE - The Narrow Gate - “Enter by the - Bible Gateway

Luke 13:23-28 , Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway

Meaning, most people don’t do it Our Lord’s way. They live their life their way, Ergo Jesus says, NOT ME, that few make it to heaven, ergo everyone else is on the wide road to perdition… hell. Keep in mind, that is NOT ME saying that, but Jesus.****And I gave you the quotes

So keep contradicting Jesus, and telling yourself and everyone else who will listen, that He said the opposite.

 

[steve-b]

Those who accept the Lord Jesus Christ.

Satan and all his demons know Jesus. They know Him in every sense.

 

[steve-b]

Well they know of Him, but they don’t know Him.

Of course they know Him. The angels were the first to be created by God. 1/3 of them failed their test. THOSE are the angels that are now the demons headed by Satan. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven Luke 10:18 RSVCE - And he said to them, “I saw Satan - Bible Gateway

Satan was there and who is telling us of Satan? Jesus. Luke 22: 22-32 RSVCE - For the Son of man goes as it has been - Bible Gateway

Look at all the divisions in Christianity today. Paul says Satan is behind all of it.
Rm 16:17-20
17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites,[a] and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Note: That word “dissension" or "division” (depending on one’s translation) in Greek is [διχοστασία, ας, ἡ]

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: dichostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-khos-tas-ee’-ah)
Short Definition: division, dissension
Definition: division, dissension, standing apart.
used of divisions which wrongly separate people into pointless (groundless) factions.

Who creates all of that? Satan.

Satan knows exactly who Jesus is. It could be said, All this division shows all those who are the one’s who don’t know Jesus. After all, who does Paul say THEY are serving, who divide and dissent from the Church Jesus established?

 

[steve-b]

I don’t think you understand what I mean… you can know of someone without truly knowing them. To know Christ is to love Him, obviously since the demons (fallen angels) fell they couldn’t have loved Jesus for they chose willingly to fall from grace.

Jesus said to “love Him” one must keep His commandments. It’s a condition of love.

John 14:15 RSVCE - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

IOW obedience to Him and His commandments

kristaok:

As for me I know Him, I’m not perfect I’ve never claimed to be. I’m merely saved by grace but through my faith in Him I am able to present good works, and if I slip up I repent and go on trying my best.

kristaok:

To me faith goes before works, works is an evidence of faith. Salvation comes to those who believe and are willing to workout their Salvation / take up their cross and follow Jesus.

Here’s something to think about RE: faith and obedience to Our Lord’s commandments

Jesus wants not just a squishy unity, He insists on perfect unity. PERFECT.
http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=17&l=20-23#x

therefore

Romans 16:17-20 Douay-Rheims Bible, Romans Chapter 16,
Galatians 5:19-21 Douay-Rheims Bible, Galatians Chapter 5

From the Greek NT
both use the same Greek word [διχοστασίαι,] for dissension / division, depending on one’s translation they use, here’s the definition [http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm] And the consequence for that sin? _ Paul says in Gal 5:21 above, “I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God”_. IOW they go to hell when they die

The number of people divided from Our Lord’s Church today, is a staggering number. Therefore they break many of Our Lord’s commandments by choosing to remain separated.

The consequences are huge as one can see in Gal 5:21. Therefore what is taught there is not a suggestion but a command

 

[webmasterpdx]

I would say simply…those who do the will of the father. See the parable of the 2 sons Mat 21:28.

 

[PetraG]

I think the clearest answer resides in the Catechism’s treatment of the grave sin of suicide:

CCC 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Who has the possibility of salvation? As far as we know, all do, because “by ways known to Him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.” The normal way to enter into salvation is via life in the Church, by faith, by the grace of the sacraments, and by the life of virtue that flows from our whole-hearted acceptance of those gracious gifts of God. Like the vineyard workers not hired until the end of the day, however, by the authority of God and his generous mercy any might be saved by ways known to God alone. This is why the Church prays for the salvation of all, since clearly the gracious gift of Our Lord’s death and resurrection is sufficient to redeem any. All that is necessary is to eventually accept the offer of eternal life. The soul’s free acceptance is always required and the possibility that an additional offer will be extended must never be presumed. We must hope; we cannot presume.

Those of us in the vineyard ought to rejoice in Him whom we serve, serve him without reservation regardless of the difficulty of our work, and earnestly hope both that we will be given the grace of perseverance and that even more will join us in the generous “employment” we have been given.