Who heard Jesus in Gethsemane

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Slartibartfast

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Hi,
We know that Jesus left the disciples and prayed and then came back and found them sleeping. This being the case, who heard the prayer of Jesus asking that he be spared if God so willed it? The way in which it comes across to me is that he was out of earshot of the disciples even if they were awake. Is it simply that they could hear him before sleeping or did one of them accompany him without it being recorded?
 
John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
 
What Nelka says is true, but also:

He didn’t just pray a few sentences. The Gospel account has Him complain to the disciples that they “could not watch one hour”.
So it’s likely that He prayed for an hour or so. They listened at first but then, worn out with grief, they fell asleep.
 
Why do you even entertain these types of ideas? If you question that, then you can question the entire body of scripture.
 
Reepicheep said:
What Nelka says is true, but also:

He didn’t just pray a few sentences. The Gospel account has Him complain to the disciples that they “could not watch one hour”.
So it’s likely that He prayed for an hour or so. They listened at first but then, worn out with grief, they fell asleep.
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This. :yup:
 
Tim_D said:
Why do you even entertain these types of ideas? If you question that, then you can question the entire body of scripture.
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well it should stand up to scrutiny shouldn’t it?
 
Tim_D said:
Why do you even entertain these types of ideas? If you question that, then you can question the entire body of scripture.
Click to expand...
The faith isn’t opposed to reason. It isn’t fideistic. I think as one meditates on Church teachings questions like this naturally occur. And they will certainly occur to critics so we ought to be ready to defend our faith for the sake of others.
 
Slartibartfast said:
well it should stand up to scrutiny shouldn’t it?
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Yes, of course it should. Reepicheep’s answer, I think, was very good.

I’m not sure why Tim_D answered the way he did; of course it is good for us to think critically and carefully about historical accounts in Scripture.

Faith is not contrary to reason; they are complementary, not contrary.
 
According to Fr. Benedict Groeschel, OFM†, our Lord’s prayer could only have been known by direct revelation.
 
dshix said:
Yes, of course it should. Reepicheep’s answer, I think, was very good.

I’m not sure why Tim_D answered the way he did; of course it is good for us to think critically and carefully about historical accounts in Scripture.

Faith is not contrary to reason; they are complementary, not contrary.
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Then explain to me how the Gospel authors could know those details. For that matter, how could anyone have known what Christ said to the Samaritan woman, since everyone had gone to buy food?

And I never said that faith was contrary to reason but there are things that we must simply take on faith. Going down this rabbit hole we can say that no one had a tape recorder or knew shorthand, so how can we know with certainty was Christ did or didn’t say?
 
Tim_D said:
Then explain to me how the Gospel authors could know those details. For that matter, how could anyone have known what Christ said to the Samaritan woman, since everyone had gone to buy food?
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Christ lived with his apostles. Is it outside the realm of reason to assume he would have told them of this encounter?
Tim_D said:
And I never said that faith was contrary to reason but there are things that we must simply take on faith.
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Of course there are. But when historical events are recounted, why isn’t it permissible to ask questions about how that information was collected?

I was reacting to this statement of yours: “Why do you even entertain these types of ideas?”
 
Tim_D said:
Then explain to me how the Gospel authors could know those details. For that matter, how could anyone have known what Christ said to the Samaritan woman, since everyone had gone to buy food?

And I never said that faith was contrary to reason but there are things that we must simply take on faith. Going down this rabbit hole we can say that no one had a tape recorder or knew shorthand, so how can we know with certainty was Christ did or didn’t say?
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I think you need to chill out. It’s a good question!! I’ve wondered the same thing!! Good thread, OP 👍
 
po18guy said:
According to Fr. Benedict Groeschel, OFM†, our Lord’s prayer could only have been known by direct revelation.
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Yes, and when Jesus tells His disciples what He was doing in Gethsemene - that’s direct revelation.

Any claim that none of the disciples knew anything of what happened while they slept would rely on the absence of scripture. It would amount to the argument from silence that if scripture doesn’t say something then it never happened.
 
Tim_D said:
Then explain to me how the Gospel authors could know those details. For that matter, how could anyone have known what Christ said to the Samaritan woman, since everyone had gone to buy food?
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I don’t need to explain.
Just read the bible.
John 4:39
The Samaritan woman herself told everyone about the episode.
Yes - and the people would have pressed her for details, details, details.
 
exnihilo said:
The faith isn’t opposed to reason. It isn’t fideistic. I think as one meditates on Church teachings questions like this naturally occur. And they will certainly occur to critics so we ought to be ready to defend our faith for the sake of others.
Click to expand...
This is very much my angle on this. I am not a critic; I am exploring my faith and sometimes things don’t always make sense… It is not a challenge in order to oppose the scriptures. By investigating one hopes to learn and gain confidence.
 
Tim_D said:
Why do you even entertain these types of ideas? If you question that, then you can question the entire body of scripture.
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A thousand difficulties do not equal one doubt. We may reasonably ask questions because we wish to learn.
If the OP does not understand this point and wishes to learn, that is not the same as casting doubt on the truth or reliability of Scripture.
 
Tim_D said:
Then explain to me how the Gospel authors could know those details. For that matter, how could anyone have known what Christ said to the Samaritan woman, since everyone had gone to buy food?

And I never said that faith was contrary to reason but there are things that we must simply take on faith. Going down this rabbit hole we can say that no one had a tape recorder or knew shorthand, so how can we know with certainty was Christ did or didn’t say?
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The authors knew because the eyewitnesses told them. Matthew, Mark and John were themselves among the Twelve. Luke came later but he spoke face to face with at least some of the Twelve.

As for the Samaritan woman, what would stop them from asking Christ about it, or for that matter asking the Samaritan woman? He stayed two days at that village to teach the villagers.

ETA: And of course there are things we must take on faith. That does not mean we shouldn’t use reason to better understand what we know. Faith is not the enemy of reason.
 
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