Who here are LOTR fans?

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Steve Andersen:
My biggest problem with the books thought is that there is, to me at least, a very unchristian thing at its core…there does not appear to be any salvation once someone goes over to the dark side
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What? Gandalf and Aragorn spare Gollums life just for that reason.

The whole struggle of the Elves is one of salvation after sin. Read Galadriels words when Frodo offers her the ring and she refuses.

I’d say that hope is the second theme of the book next to Not being able to use Evil for a good purpose.

“Many live that deserve death, and many die that deserve life will you give it to them?” Gandalf to Frodo on Gollum
 
Steve Andersen:
The Dark Nunenoraians (sp), the Easterlings, the orcs, even the fallen Valar themselves. There is no hint that any of them ever get a chance to be saved.
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In our Faith we call that Free Will. Atleast for those beings that had it, ie Men. Orcs where created evil by evil and thus had no Free Will. There was only 1 fallen Vala (Morgoth) the others where Maia like Sauron and the Balrogs. the Miar are like the Angels and are out side of time and space and thus made one choice for all eternity.
 
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BryanW:
In our Faith we call that Free Will. Atleast for those beings that had it, ie Men. Orcs where created evil by evil and thus had no Free Will. There was only 1 fallen Vala (Morgoth) the others where Maia like Sauron and the Balrogs. the Miar are like the Angels and are out side of time and space and thus made one choice for all eternity.
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Not exactly! The orcs were elves that were captured and tortured by Melkor when they were called/summoned to the Undying Lands. All the creatures of middle earth, (including the Ainur) were created good by good, Eru. It was Melkor who, not being able to create from nothing, corrupted good to make evil.

The only thing I’ll say about free will is that the Ainur, like the angles have free will and they used this free will to accept or reject the One God.
 
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K-McD:
Not exactly! The orcs were elves that were captured and tortured by Melkor when they were called/summoned to the Undying Lands. All the creatures of middle earth, (including the Ainur) were created good by good, Eru. It was Melkor who, not being able to create from nothing, corrupted good to make evil.
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Not true. There simply aren’t enough “missing” Elves to account for the vast number of Orcs. How is it that every battle we hear of the Elves and Men where horribly out numbered by Orcs? While Orcs may have been created from Elves it wasn’t on a one for one basis. An Orc is not a converted Elf. Melkor was a Vala and could create. Just as the Dwarves were created by Aule who was a Vala.
 
Actually I must correct myself. Tolkien did say that evil could not create only corrupt. However it there is no evidence that they had free will. Tolkien was known to be rethinking the origins of Orcs before he died. Obviously he saw it as a problem.
 
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BryanW:
However it there is no evidence that they had free will. Tolkien was known to be rethinking the origins of Orcs before he died. Obviously he saw it as a problem.
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Could you provide the resources to back your post? Thanks.
 
Whoa! Taking our Tolkien a bit serious these days, are we?

Well, for those who would like a little laugh, here’s an interesting short film:fellowship911.com/

NOT for Michael Moore fans…😛
 
Tolkien ubernerd here. Loved Silmarilion and LOTR, books and movie, though I was disappointed that Jackson had Faramir take Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath. I think Gandalf sums up why we as Catholics should say no to the death penalty: “Even the wise cannot see all ends.”
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Tolkien ubernerd here. Loved Silmarilion and LOTR, books and movie, though I was disappointed that Jackson had Faramir take Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath. I think Gandalf sums up why we as Catholics should say no to the death penalty: “Even the wise cannot see all ends.”
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He was talking about being as careful as possible when dealing out the death penalty. Neither Tolkein nor Gandolf were making a blanket statement that convicted murderers should not be executed by the state. You may ahev noticed, but Gandolf killed quite a few people in the stories.
 
Tom of Assisi:
He was talking about being as careful as possible when dealing out the death penalty. Neither Tolkein nor Gandolf were making a blanket statement that convicted murderers should not be executed by the state. You may ahev noticed, but Gandolf killed quite a few people in the stories.
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I never said that “Tolkein nor Gandolf were making a blanket statement that convicted murderers should not be executed by the state.” My exact words were "I think Gandalf sums up why we as Catholics should say no to the death penalty: “Even the wise cannot see all ends.” That means that’s my opinion.
 
This is a very long thread.

I am a pretty big fan, although I admit I haven’t read HOMES (History Of Middle-earth) or the Lost Tales yet. I first read the books in '99. I’de read the Hobbit when I was a kid, but not LOTR. I read it in two days, and by the end, I thought I was an Ent. Since then I’ve probably re-read them about forty times. I’ve read the Silmarillion through twice, as well. And Tree and Leaf, which is excellent. I’ve also read Tolkien’s biography, and the related Inklings one.

Sauron was originally a Maiar (one step below Valar, the lower-case-‘g’-gods-of-Middle-earth) who followed Melkor when Melkor rebelled against Illuvatar. So, he’s a fallen angel. He was created good. I think the Balrogs are fallen Maiar, too. Haven’t the faintest where the dragons came from- incidentally, wouldn’t the Fall of Gondolin make amazing movie footage? An Elven city brought down by an army of dragons and Balrogs?
 
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JKirkLVNV:
I never said that “Tolkein nor Gandolf were making a blanket statement that convicted murderers should not be executed by the state.” My exact words were "I think Gandalf sums up why we as Catholics should say no to the death penalty: “Even the wise cannot see all ends.” That means that’s my opinion.
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:rotfl:

I guess he could not have seen how his writings would be used by the anti-death penalty libs in America either.

I think his quotation sums up why I eat at McDonald’s. What–you say the two are unrelated? So what.

:rotfl:
 
The Silmarillion makes everything so much clearer. I’d like to read all the Histories as well, though I hear many of them are quite dry.

And anyone who thinks they’re a huge lotr geek/nerd/whatever has not met a certain guy I know… as of two years ago he’d seen the first movie over 60 times :eek: and I’m assuming he has the same track record for the other two… and he speaks Elvish :rolleyes:

My book collection consists of lotr, hp, and the redwall series… along with a few other musthaves (like les mis, which does take forever to read and can get wicked boring… plow through it though, everything he says matters somewhere later). I love reading, and my taste has stayed pretty much the same as when I was 9! :bounce:
I work in a bookstore ( ::drools:: ) and the “intermediates” section is still my favorite, lol! Right behind it is fantasy (no scifi, contrary to popular belief they are not the same thing)!

Need sleep now :sleep:
 
ME!!! I am a HUGE fan! (Although seeing the first movie 60 times is a bit much…maybe when I get the DVD set. I certainly would NOT pay those horrible movie theater prices to watch it over and over!) I thought the movies were so close to the books-most books don’t translate well onto the big screen. Geckstein: you read The Hobbit 3 times and the trilogy 4 times? I ask you-Is that all? :> And lovethetruth: re: Viggo as Aragorn-that is EXACTLY how I pictured Aragorn when I read the books, and he is VERY good-looking, so no argument there. Maybe I’ll take one of the books with me to work tonight…
 
I enjoyed the books and the movies. Last year when the extended Two Towers was released, we took over the big screen TV in my friends college dorm lobby and watched it, it was great. Also great were the strange looks people would throw us as they walked by when we cheered at all the good parts.

What was really great though was the fact that when we started watching, there was only 5-6 of us but by the end we had about 20 total strangers that had figured out what we were watching and had joined us!
 
Speaking of LotR… Last Wednesday, our campus priest just made my day by mentioning Gollum in his homily! He talked about how we shouldn’t keep what we’ve been given and what we have to offer all to ourselves and likened it to how Gollum greedily kept the Ring to himself and so shrivelled up and became a horrible creature. I just thought that was awesome. 👍 Three cheers for Fr. Mark!

Anyway, I loved both the books and the movie. Although I didn’t like how they cut some of the stuff in Minas Tirith and a couple of other things, and also how they diminished King Theoden’s death scene… I’d talk more but I’m in a mood for lurking… 😉
 
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Geckstein:
I’m a major fan of lord of the rings. I have read the hobbit 3 times and the LOTR trilogy 4 times. Just last week I watched all of the movies right in a row. LOTR have alot of Biblical references in it. When Gandalf fell off the Ledge at Helm’s deep he fought the balrog. This symbolizes Jesus fighting with the temtations from the devil. Gandolf died and came back to the living. Like Jesus. At the end of the last movie, when Bilbo and Frodo were leaving on the ship, this designated after life. You can learn alot from the books
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Well why didn’t i look in this forum earlier!!! Im the hobbit Podo and of course i love the adventures of my friend frodo…from what i’ve heard he’s been living good in the grey havens:D . And yes the story does refer to biblical things. No wonder im catholic;) lol
:blessyou: from
Podo Bumbleroot of Haysend
of the Shire
 
I’m new to Lord of the Rings. I read the Hobbit, and I’m now on The Fellowship of the Ring. (about half way done) They are both great!!! (so far…) I’ll get around to the movies after I finish reading the books.😃
 
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