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Celticnovice
Guest
We do at the OF parish I attend as well, and I remember our bishop teaching us to do this a few years back.
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At_Trent
Guest
Right, I can’t fault them for exercising the option correctly.
But imo, kneeling is more reverent. And evidently the Pope and a few Cardinals and Bishops agree. For example, see the interview at the link in my sig.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Veridical16
Guest
I grew up receiving in the hand, as a child I didn’t understand when those who received on the Tongue when they were standing, what the difference was. Fast Forward to just a few years ago, when I went to the Latin Mass , this is AFTER I revered the Eucharist more through better understanding of the Faith. The starkness of reverence was astounding to me. I believe the act of kneeling and the priests hands that confer it, carefully placing on the tongue is HUGE. While those who fully love the Eucharist, it might not make a difference as they will be reverent regardless, as you said still reverent – but for the other sheep, it might be lost on them. COTT with kneelers allows less leeway, and forces those receiving communion to be more aware. Bowing isn’t the same as kneeling, I’m sad to say. It’s easier to go through the motions still.
The arguments against CITH becoming the NORMAL way to receive are valid
Why is it that the Pope will not give by CITH???
From the Franciscan Priest’s first Video
Fr. Ignatius Communion In the Hand
airmaria.com/?sn=080213&vp=985&prefx=hmly&plyrnb=1&ttl=Homily
If you watch the video by the 5:10 , the Fr. Ignatius is righteously angry describing how people receiving in the HAND do not even CHECK their hands. Anyone reading this, should always CHECK their hands. He says yes, he is well aware the Church allows it, but goes through the documents that CITH is NOT unconditional.** All Catholics being indifferent about CITH being a Normal practice, should watch the 6:58 Minute Mark. **
By the time After that video, I noticed occasions where I’d examine a particle on my hand. I have to consume it.
Voris does a video about CITH, and he mentions how the old times when one received they would hold out their palm and consume it by mouth in a way, licking one’s palm that would allow no particles to fall. Not in the way where we receive in palm, then pick it up with two other fingers. If you study the history of the Eucharist by the Early Church and how reverent they were, and hold the practice of CITH in view of how they handled the blessed Sacrament. Study the way the Clergy transported the sacrament in the early centuries. Abuses that come with CITH clearly goes away from the historical treatment of the Host, in habit.
airmaria.com/2008/04/13/apr-13-homily-fr-ignatius-re-thinking-communion-in-the-hand/.
Re-thinking Communion In The Hand
Quote from the second video:
I can see that. I grew up Novus Ordo, but clearly, this change or habit, is free for criticism. With COTT there is less room for irreverence, though there still can be apathy, there will be LESS if one has to literally kneel before the Host before receiving. An apathetic person , might not even bother going up.
All one has to DO is observe the casual recipient to see reverence for the Eucharist is being lost, and understanding that this is the blood, soul, body and divinity of the Blessed Lord is starting to wane amongst many. There are a lot that go through the motions. I know because when I was a kid, poorly catechized. "here we go, standing in line, hand me the wafer, Thank you, Ma’am , pop it into mouth, on my way, genuflect a few minutes, and not really think about what I just received, a piece of bread it tastes like ’
It doesn’t mean that those who receive in the Hand are less reverent in their disposition, I still sometimes receive on the hand, not because I prefer it, but I’m uncomfortable receiving on the tongue without the kneeler and a priest and a patent, because when I was young I had it shoved in my mouth when I was standing (my hands weren’t raised high enough, so that was the first time I received on the tongue) the EM aren’t used to it, another time when I was in college, one person in front of me when receiving the EM dropped it; And the EM didn’t properly go through the procedure of a dropped host.
I think CITH & kneelers should be the NORM. I also think people shouldn’t always receive will-nilly, if they have not prepared their hearts and examined their conscience. COTH, just encourages people to be casual in the presence and in receiving and it causes long lines whereas Kneelers and COTT would give the casual Catholic who may not understand the reverence.
Another point in favor of overall reverence. Outsiders who witness the kneelers and COTT are more likely to recognize those receiving believe in Transubstantiation. Whereas, an outsider observing the CITH processions , it’s easier to believe we TOO think the Eucharist is a symbolism,
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I won’t nor I can’t claim I know better than them, but from what I have seen, reverence is not justified by one action alone. Of course it comes from the heart, and the Church merely asks us to physically express our reverence. As long as reverence is expressed properly and is from the heart, I don’t think one action is intrinsically better than another. For one thing, in many cultures to kneel before someone is submission (ie subjugation) which is a negative thing rather than the willful and loving submission/surrender we should give to God.
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At_Trent
Guest
Have you watched the interview at the link in my signature ? Good stuffI grew up receiving in the hand, I didn’t understand when those who received on the Tongue. When they were standing, what the difference was. When I went to the Latin Mass , this is AFTER I revered Eucharist more, The starkness of reverence was astounding to me. I believe the act of kneeling and the priests hands that confer it, carefully placing on the tongue, while those who fully understand the Eucharist, it might not make a difference as they will be reverent regardless, as you said still reverent – but for the other sheep, it might be lost on them. COTT with kneelers allows less leeway, and forces those receiving communion to be more aware. Bowing isn’t the same as kneeling, I’m sad to say. It’s easier to go through the motions still.
The arguments against CITH becoming the NORMAL way to receive is valid
Why is it that the Pope will not give by COTH???
From the Franciscan Priest’s first Video
Fr. Ignatius Communion In the Hand
airmaria.com/?sn=080213&vp=985&prefx=hmly&plyrnb=1&ttl=Homily
If you watch the video by the 5:10 , the Fr. Ignatius is righteously angry describing how people receiving in the HAND do not even CHECK their hands. Anyone reading this, should always CHECK their hands. He says yes, he is well aware the Church allows it, but goes through the documents that CITH is NOT unconditional.** All Catholics being indifferent about COTH being a Normal practice, should watch the 6:58 Minute Mark. **
By the time After that video, I noticed occasions where I’d examine a particle on my hand. I have to consume it.
Voris does a video about CITH, and he mentions how the old times when one received they would hold out their palm and consume it by mouth in a way, licking one’s palm that would allow no particles to fall. Not in the way where we receive in palm, then pick it up with two other fingers. If you study the history of the Eucharist by the Early Church and how reverent they were, and hold the practice of CITH in view of how they handled the blessed Sacrament. Study the way the Clergy transported the sacrament. Abuses that come with CITH clearly goes away from the treatment of the Host, in habit.
airmaria.com/2008/04/13/apr-13-homily-fr-ignatius-re-thinking-communion-in-the-hand/.
Re-thinking Communion In The Hand
Quote from the second video:
I can see that. I grew up Novus Ordo, but clearly, this change or habit, is free for criticism. There is less room for irreverence, though there still can be apathy, there will be LESS if one has to literally kneel before the Host before receiving. An apathetic person , might not even bother going up.
All one has to DO is observe the casual recipient to see reverence for the Eucharist is being lost, and understanding that this is the blood, soul, body and divinity of the Blessed Lord is starting to wane amongst many. There are a lot that go through the motions. I know because when I was a kid, poorly catechized. "here we go, standing in line, hand me the wafer, Thank you, Ma’am , pop it into mouth, on my way, genuflect a few minutes, and not really think about what I just received, a piece of bread it tastes like ’
It doesn’t mean that those who receive in the Hand are less reverent in their disposition, I still sometimes receive on the hand, not because I prefer it, but I’m uncomfortable receiving on the tongue without the kneeler and a priest, because when I was young I had it shoved in my mouth when I was standing, the EM aren’t used to it, one person dropped it in front of me to a person receiving; And the EM didn’t properly go through the procedure of a dropped host.
I think CITH & kneelers should be the NORM. I also think people shouldn’t always receive will-nilly, if they have not prepared their hearts and examined their conscience. COTH, just encourages people to be casual in the presence and in receiving and it causes long lines whereas Kneelers and COTT would give the casual Catholic who may not understand the reverence.
Another point in favor of overall reverence. Outsiders who witness the kneelers and COTT are more likely to recognize those receiving believe in Transubstantiation. Whereas, an outsider observing the CITH processions , it’s easier to believe we TOO think the Eucharist is a symbolism,
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At_Trent
Guest
archangel04, see what you started 
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Bowing though is more universal in ways of giving respect and reverence. Many cultures would bow to their earthly rulers. Kneeling usually is for criminals pleading for mercy or prisoners pleading for their life.
There were issues of people taking the Eucharist home as a souvenir. I don’t know, if I want a souvenir when I receive the Eucharist from the Pope, I’d take a photo
I can tell you this, my home country is one of the late adapters of CITH. I remember everyone receivine COTT well into the middle of the 90s and CITH really just creeped in little by little. That didn’t really do much when most people are just those who show up to Mass on Sundays, not really understanding the faith. At one point I myself was believing more in consubstantiation. No one really told me about it or anything otherwise. I know Christ was in the Eucharist, not sure exactly how. I would guess the millions of other Catholics there are in the same boat. I always believe nothing beats good catechesis when it comes to understanding the faith.
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Veridical16
Guest
Thanks for the headsup , At Trent. I will!Have you watched the interview at the link in my signature ? Good stuff
Thanks, I did not know that!There were issues of people taking the Eucharist home as a souvenir. I don’t know, if I want a souvenir when I receive the Eucharist from the Pope, I’d take a photo
That’s another reason why the Pope won’t, lol.
I guess it’s subjective. Because some DO bow reverently, others give a HEAD nod which we often give to random pedestrians. I’ve been guilty of it. Your point on kneeling proves more reverence, because we are so unworthy and we are pleading for mercy!
True. But at the same time, we are all given different spiritual gifts in our Faith. Even with full understanding we may lose our way. It’s like the practice of Confession. And when less encouragement of Confession occurs in one parish, consequences ensue.
While learning about the Faith and proper catechisis is crucial. So is the way we practice our faith tangibly and practices for sacrament! Remember Jesus calls us dumb sheep for a reason. Some lose the faith not through defiance, but because they simply wandered into the wrong part of the pasture were busy examining a blade of grass before grazing, because it is slightly off color, and saying “hey, where did my Sheperd go?” and Jesus has to go leave the 99, just to bring that Dumb Sheep back into the fold.
I think the statistics of Catholics starting to believe less in the transubstantiation , might have to do with the WAY we receive our blessed Sacrament, In tandem with improper Catechisis.
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Poor_Soul
Guest
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Christe eleison
Christe eleison
Christe eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Since all of us are sinners (criminals) then it would be appropriate for us to kneel when receiving the bread of life.
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At_Trent
Guest
amenKyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Christe eleison
Christe eleison
Christe eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Kyrie eleison
Since all of us are sinners (criminals) then it would be appropriate for us to kneel when receiving the bread of life.
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Veridical16
Guest
archangel04, see what you started
Correction on my previous post.
I think Communion on the TONGUE & Kneelers should return as the Norm. Dizzying Use of Acronyms! :whacky:
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archangel04
Guest
Man what a mean responce. I think you are taking this a little to personally. That’s the problem with todays world, we act on emotion rather than using emotion and have our reason have the final say.
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archangel04
Guest
I know I know!! But just mearly prooves my point. A lot of “emotions” are involved when ever we start a topic. I guess I am just not sensitive enough to them lol. For examply I understand that in some culture certain postures are a no no, but we are a western rite, and the Church should not need to give in to other cultures, but instead that culture should immerse itself into the Church. This is comming from a Hispanic.archangel04, see what you started
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At_Trent
Guest
Well said
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Why is that mean:shrug: I’m asking a serious question…I’ve never been around when there was a use of a paten so I seriously don’t know. Geez…why is it someone can’t come on the traditional forumn and ask a serious question?
I think you are perhaps the one taking it too personally…but whatever…I withdrawl the question…geez…if that’s the response I get then I really don’t want to know…:banghead:
Do I have to put a big disclaimer on everything I ask? Isn’t that the same thing you are railing against in this thread? It was a SERIOUS question.
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archangel04
Guest
Interesting that you say that. It’s difficult isn’t it when you state question, opinon, or whatever and have it twisted around completly contrary to the original intention. Am I truly railing? Or as everyone else simply proven my point?
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
It’s hard to know because everyone else has gotten derailed…
But as far as the other (having words twisted)…that happens in all the subforumns…you are not special in that regard
It’s the beauty of the internet…no tone inflections or verbal/non-verbal cues to help anyone out. If there were…I might have picked up on your sarcasm earlier on.There are only so many smileys to help you out
:yup::tsktsk::slapfight:
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Chris_McAvoy
Guest
This comment here is an example of what I ment in my last post.
I know Ms. Annebelle is asking a good innocent thoughtlful question and I thank her for it.
I remember when I visited the exhibit of reliquaries from throughout history at the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore, MD. They had so many from throughout the centuries, beginning in the 5th century up to the 19th century (St Elizabeth Ann Seton). One of them was an altar used for the eucharist in a basilica of northern italy in the 5th century, it was quite beautiful, much more so than many of the ones in local churches. The walters art museum upstairs also has patens from the 6th century and to the 13th, both byzantine and latin.
Imagine a catholic who has never seen a reliquary or paten before visiting this museum and seeing them for the first time. It will raise questions perhaps as to why these things that were so common in the past are gone. Some may view them as “fashions” that come and go, but ultimately the more one immerses themselves the more they realize it was not a temporary trend one can elminate outright or forcibly minimize.
This was my own experience. Once 10 years ago, I knew very little, but through my study of history and through academia I gained many clues that showed me something in the present age was distinctly different and weakened spiritually, on average.
Than 5 years ago when I discovered byzantine liturgies and traditional latin liturgies and saw much more of what i knew common to catholicism historically, I immediately realized that this was what was more spiritually healthy and nourishing for the people and was through some strange turn of events attempted to diminish in the later half of the 20th century.
Much of it was in the prayers themselves which have that profound poetic beauty and dedication that is more rarely found in the parishes that conform more to the world or attempt to reinvent themselves.
Here are the prayers of preparation before Holy communion which you will find in nearly all the booklets for either an “Extraordinary form” Latin masses or a Byzantine Holy Qurbana/Divine Liturgy:
Roman/Latin tradition:
(the prayer by St Ambrose is also excellent)
Prayer of St Thomas Aquinas :
**Almighty and eternal God, behold, I approach the Sacrament of Thine only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. I approach as one who is sick to the physician of life, as one unclean to the fountain of mercy, as one blind to the light of eternal brightness, as one poor and needy to the lord of heaven and earth. Therefore I beseech Thee, of Thine infinite goodness, to heal my sickness, to wash away my filth, to enlighten my blindness, to enrich my poverty, and to clothe my nakedness, that I may receive the Bread of Angels, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords with such reverance and humility, with such contrition and devotion, with such purity and faith, with such purpose and intention, as may conduce to the salvation of my soul.
Grant, I beseech Thee, that I may receive not only the sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord, but also the fruit and virtue of this sacrament. O most indulgent God, grant me so to receive the Body of Thine only-begotten Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, which He took of the Virgin Mary, that I may be found worthy to be incorporated with His mystical body and numbered among His members. O most loving Father, grant that I may one day contemplate forever, face to face, Thy beloved Son, Whom now on my pilgrimage I am about to receive under the sacramental veils; Who liveth and reigneth with Thee in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, world without end. Amen.**
Constantinopolitan/Byzantine tradition:
Prayer of St Basil the Great:
O Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, our God, Fountain of life and immortality, Creator of all things visible and invisible; Consubstantial and Co-eternal Son of the eternal Father, who in thine exceeding great love didst become incarnate in the latter days, and was crucified for us ungrateful and wicked children, and by thine own Blood didst renew our nature corrupted by sin; Do thou, O Immortal King, receive me, a repentant sinner; incline thine ear unto me and hear my prayer. I have sinned, O Lord, I have sinned against heaven and before thee, and I am not worthy to lift up my eyes to the majesty of thy glory, for I have affronted thy goodness, and broken thy commandments, and disobeyed thy laws. But thou, O Lord most loving, long-suffering and merciful, hast not given me over to perish in my sin, but dost ever await my return. For, O Thou who lovest mankind, thou hast said, by thy Prophet, that thou hast no pleasure in the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from his wickedness and live. Thou dost not desire, O Master, to destroy the works of thy hands or that they should perish, but willest that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. Wherefore I, although unworthy both of heaven and of earth and of this temporary life, even I, a wretched sinner who had given myself over to every evil desire, despair not of salvation, though I have been wholly subject to sin, a slave to passion, and have defiled thine image within me, who am thy creation and thy work; but trusting in thine infinite compassion, draw nigh unto thee. Receive me, O Lord, thou that lovest mankind, as thou didst receive the sinful woman, the thief, the publican and the prodigal son. (I HAD TO CUT IT OFF HERE FOR LACK OF SPACE)
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archangel04
Guest
I guess I should have put “I didn’t railed, everyone else railed” lolIt’s hard to know because everyone else has gotten derailed…
But as far as the other (having words twisted)…that happens in all the subforumns…you are not special in that regard
There are only so many smileys to help you out:::slapfight:
I am not special? Man here I though I was, well I guess I will keep looking where I will be special
I didn’t know we had slap fight haha! It be awsome to have gun duels lol.
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At_Trent
Guest
just put “cont.” and post the rest below it
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