Who is a Catholic - is this chart right?

[guanophore]

The topic of the thread is trying to illustrate people’s relationship with the Catholic Church. Not who might or might not be saved.

Since there is no one saved outside of the One Church, those who are in a state of Grace are saved by grace, through faith.

if one is not baptized, they are not in a State of Grace.

This also applies to OT saints, before the CC was founded.

the Church can’t claim as members those that choose not to identify as Catholics.

It is not that they are “claimed”, it is that they are placed into the Body of Christ through valid baptism.

All others listed, are NOT Catholic nor the Catholic Church.

There is only one Church. All those who are validly baptized are members of His One Body, the Church.

 

[steve-b]

All others listed, are NOT Catholic nor the Catholic Church.

guanophore:

There is only one Church. All those who are validly baptized are members of His One Body, the Church.

If they are "IN" the Church,

THEN

1. they can walk off the street, go up to the altar at mass and receive the Eucharist.
2. they can walk off the street and go to confession to a Catholic priest

Is that true then that they are “in” the Church? No

Anymore than a Catholic could receive communion in any of those non Catholic places of worship

Canon law is very clear and this is referring to NON Catholics who are baptized.

 

[Dovekin]

As we have seen in the past, if steve-b refers to another site, he probably has misunderstood it. This is another example, where he gives a link that explains when a noncatholic may receive communion as support for his position that noncatholics may not.

“Technically possible but rare” does not support his position, no matter how he tries to distort it.

 

[steve-b]

As we have seen in the past, if steve-b refers to another site, he probably has misunderstood it. This is another example, where he gives a link that explains when a noncatholic may receive communion as support for his position that noncatholics may not.

“Technically possible but rare” does not support his position, no matter how he tries to distort it.

And the site explained the point I made…

1. non Catholics aren’t Catholic
2. NOR are they “in” the Catholic Church just because they’re baptized as a protestant.

What you bring up is very rare, not usual. It doesn’t contradict what I said

 

[Dovekin]

It does contradict what you wrote.

The article is titled “Can a Non-Catholic Receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church?”

The answer is “the Code does permit a non-Catholic to receive Catholic sacraments, but only under very limited circumstances.”

Under the standard you set:

If they are “IN” the Church,

THEN

1. they can walk off the street, go up to the altar at mass and receive the Eucharist.
2. they can walk off the street and go to confession to a Catholic priest

According to the article you posted, Non-catholic Christians meet your standard, though specific circumstances have to be met. Whether the article is accurate or not, it does not support your conclusion.

This is different from non-christians, who cannot receive under any circumstances. If the Code wanted other Christians to be treated in the same way as non-Christians, the Code would say that.

 

[Theo2]

One needs to read Lumen Gentium which explains all this. The outter ring includes all men of good will.

 

[Vico]

If all these things are true:

(1) There is only one Body of Christ, one Church founded by Christ
(2) The Catholic Church is Christ’s one true Church
(3) Baptism makes one a Christian and incorporates them into the Body of Christ

Then how come not all Christians are “Catholic”? A Protestant is not a member of the Catholic Church, but she is Christian, and therefore still part of the Body of Christ. So why isn’t she “Catholic”?

How accurate is this chart?

…

Catechism

870 “The sole Church of Christ which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, . . . subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its visible confines”(LG 8).

 

[steve-b]

It does contradict what you wrote.

The article is titled “Can a Non-Catholic Receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church?”

The answer is “the Code does permit a non-Catholic to receive Catholic sacraments, but only under very limited circumstances.”

Yeah, like in proximity of death. THAT’S pretty limited.

The point I was making was not that point.

It’s that baptism outside the Catholic Church doesn’t automatically make one Catholic. It Doesn’t give a non-Catholic baptism, the automatic right to just walk off the street and receive Catholic Sacraments.

Dovekin:

Under the standard you set:

If they are “IN” the Church,

THEN

1. they can walk off the street, go up to the altar at mass and receive the Eucharist.
2. they can walk off the street and go to confession to a Catholic priest

Dovekin:

According to the article you posted, Non-catholic Christians meet your standard, though specific circumstances have to be met. Whether the article is accurate or not, it does not support your conclusion.

Dovekin:

This is different from non-christians, who cannot receive under any circumstances. If the Code wanted other Christians to be treated in the same way as non-Christians, the Code would say that.

1. Did I talk about non-Christians in my point? No I talked about non-Catholics
2. Did you miss the qualifier “IF” that started my point.?
3. The article started off quoting the following canon law. Be sure to also look up the definitions of licit and illicit

Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

 

[guanophore]

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God… and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation. "320

Being called is quite different from having answered the call. Those who have not answered the call, or refuse the call, cannot in anyway be considered among those who are Catholic.