Who is for/against centering prayer?

[aaronjmagnan]

From the beloved St. John of the Cross:

He seeks to bring them out of that ignoble (low) kind of love for Him, to free them from ignoble exercises of sense and meditation (wherewith, as we have said, they go seeking God so unworthily and in so many ways that are unbenefitting).

and…

When they are going about these spiritual exercises with the greatest delight and pleasure, and when they believe that the sun of Divine favor is shining most brightly upon them, God turns all this light of theirs into darkness, and shuts against them the door and the source of the sweet spiritual water which they were tasting in God whensoever and for so long as they desired.

from Dark Night of the Soul

See, when “they go abbout seeking…” God directs prayer whether we approach it with a method or not. So to actually apply a method to a desired effect is not only selflish, it’s useless.

Aaron

 

[Joysong]

Dear Alan,

Your posts are very kind, helping me to accept how well this practice has helped you. I never doubted that it was a good thing in your walk with Christ.

I do think, though, considering we had very contemplative saints that died in their pre-teens, and the Blessed Mother Herself was only a young teen, at what age is a child ready for spiritual consent?

I agree completely, and I just saw the life of Blessed Margaret of Castello last night on EWTN - another beautiful child contemplative. Sadly, these souls are not in the majority, but are rare jewels in God’s kingdom. These are motivated by pure love of God, and do not need a method of centering to keep them attentive or recollected. Their devotion was born with hearts that delighted in God’s will, daily searching for efforts to please Him and be of service to others.

If the children in these classrooms were of like mind, CP would be helpful - maybe! - but I suspect that their heavenly Teacher has already lifted them into realms of prayer that few come to know by experience. For the rest, it would be an exercise in futility, for they are just not ready to practice this until they develop the heart of love to remain steadfast. Love is caught, not taught, as the saying goes.

It is always a joy to share thoughts with you Alan.

Peace,
Carole

 

[Crumpy]

I don’t know what centering prayer is, and, duh, I don’t know that anybody has defined it.

Duh, I don’t know why it is so controversial.

What I don’t like is a form of prayer imposed on me. I was in a bible study group where we consumed up to 20 minutes in some form of prayer that I was not comfortable with. I don’t think prayer should make us uncomfortable, for the most part.

 

[aaronjmagnan]

From what I know centering prayer attempts to cause what God’s revelation does of its own accord.

That’s not a cheap shot. I’m serious.

God bless
Aaron

 

[AlanFromWichita]

aaronjmagnan:

From what I know centering prayer attempts to cause what God’s revelation does of its own accord.

That’s not a cheap shot. I’m serious.

God bless
Aaron

Thank you for that observation.

My belief on this is that we are actually inviting the Lord to be present with us, in much the same way as we make our presence for him with the Eucharist. Therefore, even though it’s a passive prayer there is an active will that must desire it and make time for it – to that extent it is an act of human will to enter into prayer. In terms of “accelerating” our spiritual journey, I have been trying very hard to find my own journey and lately, it has not really involved a lot of centering prayer so frankly I’m defending a practice I’m not currently faithful about engaging in. One thing I’ve become very sure of, is that one can try to manage one’s own spiritual journey and grow in the fruits of the spirit, but it will happen at God’s pace. Just when I think I have it figured out I get humiliated again by something I do or say and how it comes back – and unfortunately humiliation seems to be the only real attack on my most subtle and sinister forms of pride.

Also, I do not think God’s revelation will be stopped with or without particular practice, so by faith I’m bound to agree at least in that God’s revelation unfolds of its own accord.

Peace,
Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Crumpy:

I don’t know what centering prayer is, and, duh, I don’t know that anybody has defined it.

Duh, I don’t know why it is so controversial.

What I don’t like is a form of prayer imposed on me. I was in a bible study group where we consumed up to 20 minutes in some form of prayer that I was not comfortable with. I don’t think prayer should make us uncomfortable, for the most part.

First, I apologize for not defining it right up front. In this thread, I’m talking about “centering prayer” as a method developed by Pennington, Keating, et al in order to help bring contemplative prayer forms into those with active lives. The definitive organization for this prayer is Contemplative Outreach, whose website is at contemplativeoutreach.org or center(name removed by moderator)rayer.com.

The home page for centering prayer is at contemplativeoutreach.org/cntrgpryr.htm

A detailed background on centering prayer and its effects is on the archives page in two articles from a past newsletter, “The Theological Foundations of Contemplative Outreach.”

If you were “roped” into centering prayer at a Bible study, then I can empathize with you. The first time I did the prayer, I new it was something new, and I went to a several hour seminar on introduction to centering prayer – which happened to be run by my SD at the time. Even then, when I saw “20 minutes” on the schedule written two for prayer, I thought, “these people have to be nuts. I can’t believe I am going to sit here and ‘pray’ for 20 minutes in a row unless it’s a Rosary or something.” I had never heard of this type of prayer so if I hadn’t had the training session it would have struck me as very strange indeed, and no doubt very uncomfortable.

To be told to sit still and be silent for 20 minutes with no warning is extremely bizarre prayer requests by most peoples’ standards. With your story, you are reinforcing what others have said about being prepared and not just jumping right in.

By, “duh, I don’t know why it’s controversial” I suppose you mean the fact that here I am discussing something I haven’t defined, or that given your experience it’s certainly a negative thing. Giving clearance for that, however, I still believe there is an extraordinary amount of negative attention given in terms of discrediting the practice and dismissing it as evil – these are the types of controversies I was trying to look into with this thread, and I can say I am delighted with the overall range, quality, and tone of the responses.

Thanks again,
Alan

 

[aaronjmagnan]

Also, I do not think God’s revelation will be stopped with or without particular practice, so by faith I’m bound to agree at least in that God’s revelation unfolds of its own accord.

Romans 14:13-14:
*Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge ye this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock in his brother’s way, or an occasion of falling.

I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: save that to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.*

Romans 14:18-19
*For he that herein serveth Christ is well-pleasing to God, and approved of men.

So then let us follow after things which make for peace, and things whereby we may edify one another.*

2nd Timothy 2:24-25
And the Lord’s servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves

Ephesians 1:15-18
I also, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which is among you, and the love which [ye show] toward all the saints, cease not to give thanks for you, making mention [of you] in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him having the eyes of your heart enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to that working of the strength of his might which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly [places], far above all rule, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and he put all things in subjection under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the church which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

God bless,
Aaron Magnan

 

[Joysong]

Dear Alan,

In terms of “accelerating” our spiritual journey, I have been trying very hard to find my own journey and lately, it has not really involved a lot of centering prayer so frankly I’m defending a practice I’m not currently faithful about engaging in.

I was intrigued by your admission that you are not using CP presently. Is this something you feel comfortable sharing with us as to the reason? My first impulse was that you may have been brought into the Dark Night where one’s familiar spiritual world is topsy-turvy and nothing feels quite right to the soul as it journeys in the dark.

As I reflected a little longer about some of the discussions we had in Carmel, those who admitted to receiving contemplation (the supernatural gift, not the acquired practice) have experienced it during the loving glance of recollection, while one is actively engaged in their duties, or whether the person is quietly attentive to God in prayer.

When you wrote about our Blessed Mother, I recalled her way of prayer mentioned by St. Luke (Ch. 2:19), “But Mary kept in mind all these things, pondering them in her heart.” It might be more spiritually profitable to help Mary’s children to learn her method of keeping her mind on these mysteries, but I note with deeper awareness, that she pondered them in her heart. That is, the thoughts in the intellect moved the heart to love. Is this not the truest goal of all prayer?

In this mental “recollection” of the Lord, the heart is thereby enkindled with desire, love, thanksgiving, interior praise, longing – whether or not words are used – and in this silence of loving attention, the Lord may come and visit His loved one.

If we use the concept of CP where the mind attempts to center intellectually, but the heart has never been prepared through the proper channels of discovery, spiritual reading, conversion, purgation, pondering in the heart … then how can one continue to focus and find any loving fruitfulness in the exercise? As an outside observer of the practice, I can readily understand the objections of those who see dangers if the activity is purely mental.

What may be experienced is an interior freedom as the mind lets go and the body relaxes, but the unschooled person, finding refreshment and delight in this, may misinterpret his experience as a gift from God. So the snowball begins as he communicates his delight to others who try it with disastrous results.

If the books written on centering do not move from the head to the heart, I would remain suspect. Although I have Pennington’s book, since a friend tried to convince me of the worth of CP, it has been quite some time since I read it. Initially, my remembrance of it did not recall this primary instruction, which I believe is so necessary. This is probably the very reason for your successful endeavor into this prayer form - your heart was engaged!

Carole

 

[WanderAimlessly]

I chose: I do not practice or never heard of contemplative prayer and I think CP is dangerous.

I have tried comtemplative prayer in the past that bordered on Centering Prayer. When I heard about its connection to the New Age movement, I stopped.

PF

 

[DBT]

Bravo Carole on your last post!

It is such a delight when I see someone actually listening to what Alan has to say rather than using his comments as a launching pad to indulge our own personal biases. Alan is working feverishly to find his way through all of this . . . let us do our best to help him through

Dave.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

I was intrigued by your admission that you are not using CP presently. Is this something you feel comfortable sharing with us as to the reason? My first impulse was that you may have been brought into the Dark Night where one’s familiar spiritual world is topsy-turvy and nothing feels quite right to the soul as it journeys in the dark.

At first I quit going because I took a class (I was working toward my Ph.D. in electrical engineering) that met on Wednesday nights, the night of my favorite meeting where my spiritual director Father Pecht led. By that time, I also lost contact with Fr. Pecht, who moved from town. The prayer group was in good hands, but having no spiritual direction, I kind of quit going to anything organized except at our parish.

Personally, I have learned enough from CP that I think it stays with me as a permanent change and I use it in life.

The prayer itself, just sitting quietly and knowing the procedure, probably wouldn’t have done much for me if not supplemented by many videos – watched a segment or two per week in the prayer sessions – of Father Keating training on centering prayer, theory, the spiritual journey, how it is our emotional selves get to the way they are, and so forth. I cannot honestly say that the performance of the prayer when I was going did me more good than the fellowship of really kind people and watching he videos which I found very intellectually edifying. Since I’ve always been a math/science person, I like to try to understand it and work hard to help apply the lessons to myself.

The reason is, how can I separate what feels like spiritual growth into its component causes? Do we not benefit from all things in our past? For me, the concept of sitting still and not thinking was a monumental new concept, and it took a lot of surrender to actually learn to do it without fear. Other than that, I think the idea of detaching automatically launched emotions from stimuli is an advantage in general for a person’s psychological well-being, for I think we are trained by and large under threats and promises, leading to a fear-led life.

There was no doubt in my mind that I was in the Dark Night, big time, in 2001. My wife gave me her copy of the book to read when I was in the midst of a severe psychotic episode that I’m just now getting over. That book was like magic to me; I only got through the first few chapters but I was absolutely certain that somehow the Holy Church would be able to get me through the things that were happening. There were so many crazy parallels and this twisted logic he gave talking about pride just hit exactly “spot on” as an Aussie friend says.

As I reflected a little longer about some of the discussions we had in Carmel, those who admitted to receiving contemplation (the supernatural gift, not the acquired practice) have experienced it during the loving glance of recollection, while one is actively engaged in their duties, or whether the person is quietly attentive to God in prayer.

I get tremendous “rushes” of a feeling of energy and it sometimes overwhelmes me. A few minutes ago I had a fairly rare one while typing, where my eyes all tear up and I feel very unified with the world and an overall sense of well-being. This sense has largely displaced my feelings of discouragement that have almost succeeded in giving me a Bad Attitude over the last few years had God not been with me…

That is, the thoughts in the intellect moved the heart to love. Is this not the truest goal of all prayer?

What happens is when I get theses strong ideas, they come as ideas and not words – sort of a feeling-first, and it is not always possible to explain the “lesson” because it is experiential rather than verbal – so if I try to explain it I have to “author” my own version of what happened, and often I use terminology that I’m not good at using and that probably throws people off. Lessons of the heart can only be approximately described by words, so understanding them is a matter of interpretation and sensitivity I think.
(continued)

 

[AlanFromWichita]

(continued)

In this mental “recollection” of the Lord, the heart is thereby enkindled with desire, love, thanksgiving, interior praise, longing – whether or not words are used – and in this silence of loving attention, the Lord may come and visit His loved one.

That sounds like the times I just kind of “freeze up” whatever I’m doing and completely forget the topic at hand. It’s really weird, like when I’m driving and stuff it suddenly seems like all that matters is that I just simply drive – nothing else – no other worries in the world are important right now. This is a strange result of my spritual journey, which was also augmented by a great deal of self study and seeking. (I tried meeting with a new spiritual director, but it just didn’t seem to “click” and I never went back after the first meeting.)

If we use the concept of CP where the mind attempts to center intellectually, but the heart has never been prepared through the proper channels of discovery, spiritual reading, conversion, purgation, pondering in the heart … then how can one continue to focus and find any loving fruitfulness in the exercise? As an outside observer of the practice, I can readily understand the objections of those who see dangers if the activity is purely mental.

I think of the activity as inactivity, and inert. It gives us a quiet awareness which can be a bit spooky but the fruit does not show itself during the exercise normally. The fruit should come in everyday life or IMO it’s not worth it. If the prayer were an end in itself I do not think it would be valuable to me. I think being willing to let go of all thoughts has given me courage to entertain others that I have to entertain without being frightened of them. For example, with X car broken and Y kids needing to get to school, what is the chance that tomorrow will be a disaster?

If the books written on centering do not move from the head to the heart, I would remain suspect. Although I have Pennington’s book, since a friend tried to convince me of the worth of CP, it has been quite some time since I read it. Initially, my remembrance of it did not recall this primary instruction, which I believe is so necessary. This is probably the very reason for your successful endeavor into this prayer form - your heart was engaged!

Carole

You have much beauty in your messages as they come across to me. I don’t think you have to worry at all about whether you will be drawn into a bad prayer form. If it speaks to you, fine; otherwise, you sounds like you can manage hearing others’ opinions. My goal is not to get all Catholics to practice the same prayer form, but to get them to love each other despite their preferences and in some cases, their differences in beliefs. Silence is golden, IMO, and Fr. Keating says it is the language of the Holy Spirit. I read somewhere the Holy Spirit is like the wind. You can’t see it or grasp it but you can feel it, an see and hear its effects on the trees.

Alan

 

[ncjohn]

Hi Carole,

Maybe I can shed a little light on the reasons for using CP or not at any given time, based on my experience.

One of the greatest benefits I find to CP is in disciplining myself to set time aside to listen for the “still small voice”, to “go into the garden” as it were. And quite frankly, it is when things are “dry” that I find the greatest benefit in this as it helps me personally to constantly remember that it isn’t God who seems to have “moved” and that I need to be fatihful in whatever trials I might be enduring. It often offers me no “consolation” to speak of other than knowing that I’ve taken the time to rest in His arms, away from the cares of the world.

Often when things seem brighter I will kind of lapse out of CP while spending more time pondering scripture or journaling or posting my thoughts in spirituality fora. This usually seems appropriate for the times since I seem more “in tune” with God at those times and find myself less in need of that discipline while possibly needing to hear Him through the wisdom of others He has put in my path at the moment.

Often during those times, as you mention, I’ll find myself just spontaneously “present” to an inner gift in the midst of “life”. In fact, my greatest gifts have come at the most unexpected of times–but always, in retrospect, at just the time I needed them.

To me, CP is no different than the time taken to go to Adoration or the time set aside to pray the rosary. It is nothing more than a way of quieting our minds from the “thorns” of everyday life and trying to rest in God.

Like Alan, I am not currently “using” CP as I currently have other promptings that seem to keep me in touch. If I start to feel myself “drift” though I will be right back to that or Lectio Divina to consciously put myself back in the Presence.

I don’t know if this helps anything, but figured it might give another perspective.

Peace,

 

[Joysong]

Dear Alan and John,

I am nonplussed at this moment, sitting here trying to find words to express how connected I feel with both of your spirits and your kindness in responding so all of us can know you better. Everything you wrote seems to be working well for you, so it has been a good sharing that leaves a sweetness here that has not been the case in other threads on this topic. Yes, the love does come forth, and that is what we are all about, no matter what type of prayer one uses to gain the ability to find Christ, and see Him in one another.

For lack of words, but with much emotion, I leave today with thanksgiving and deeper understanding.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

I’m sure you will laugh along with me, for I thought my work was done here for the present time. However, but for that still small voice … you know?

I stumbled upon a paragraph in Basil Pennington’s Book on CP, pg.217, that sheds some light on this topic. He says in speaking about the* Cloud of Unknowing, *that the author makes it quite clear whom he considers ready to receive his instruction on contemplative prayer:

A person is ready for contemplative prayer when he has left off all deliberate sin, or at least has brought all such sin to the Church for healing and has a firm purpose of amendment (Ch. 28), is drawn to a simple prayer, and is not really at peace except when he knows he is seeking God’s will in all things.

If one has a simple desire to be deeply united to God, to experience His love and respond to it, he need have no fear of error in believing that God is calling him to contemplation, regardless of what sort of person he is now or has been in the past. When properly understood, the author does not attach the call to contemplation to any specially lofty or advanced stage of holiness. One needs but to have actually turned from deliberate sin and to be desirous of a simple union with God in prayer.

This is a confirmation of some things we have discussed so far - the necessity of true conversion, seeking God’s will, drawn to simple prayer, and a desire to be united to God and respond to His love. Awesome!

But this truly helps me to see the error of those who do not discern this readiness when they promote the exercise to persons who have not entered this remote preparation prior to practicing it. In that sense, I think we can all quickly perceive the harm that can be done.

I do not believe it is lacking in humility to seek God’s presence, for we read in the Song of Songs, “Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth. More delightful is your love than wine!” And then we encounter love’s beautiful pursuit made by the bride, desirous of union, yet at times anxiously disappointed when He became lost to her.

If we approach CP with the heart of our bride in the Songs, I believe this may be beneficial, providing one obtains sound instruction.

Maybe now I’m finished and can say - Amen?

Carole

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

Dear Alan and John,

I am nonplussed at this moment, sitting here trying to find words to express how connected I feel with both of your spirits and your kindness in responding so all of us can know you better. Everything you wrote seems to be working well for you, so it has been a good sharing that leaves a sweetness here that has not been the case in other threads on this topic. Yes, the love does come forth, and that is what we are all about, no matter what type of prayer one uses to gain the ability to find Christ, and see Him in one another.

For lack of words, but with much emotion, I leave today with thanksgiving and deeper understanding.

Carole

Dear Carole,

This is one of the best things I’ve read in a long time, but frankly it isn’t a total surprise. You clearly had an open mind and much love, and were trying to understand a point of view not your own. In a way, we were part of your “unknowing.” To me, to really actively pursue another Christian’s view on something is to go together into that unknowing, trusting that you will be OK for having considered this other option.

Therefore, I don’t see this is a miracle or breakthrough except as it unfolds. It is though wonderful and I appreciate your honesty in revealing such beauty to this thread.

To me, centering prayer or any other topic in this forum is just bait to get people to talk to each other. How they talk to each other I think depends more on their own surrender than on the topic at hand.

My peace comes in a strange form. It’s kind of like, at any given moment I have to be willing to die – in that, I don’t think anyone absolutely NEEDS anything from me in the future. The moment I lose that perspective my ego starts to inflate, I begin to take things “seriously” again (which is what caused my illness) and set myself up for being frustrated as I once again presume to control the future and other people. You are right that the work is done in this thread, as far as I’m concerned everyone is welcome to their own opinion. As long as somebody heard what I had to say, I am at peace to quit saying it or at liberty to repeat it … that gives me a feeling of true freedom as now I know the Spirit, not my ego, is running the show at least for another moment.

Alan

 

[Joysong]

Alan,

This has been an awesome day! My cup runneth over …

Carole

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

Alan,

This has been an awesome day! My cup runneth over …

Carole

Same with me and my wife. The family just gets closer every day it seems, and exciting things are happening in many places. I think Catholic Answers is a great place for unity and as far as message bandwidth now they are getting listed on the world’s busiest boards… I think we’re like #770 or so. This place is a fertile ground of wonderful souls.

Thanks to all who have shared opinions on this issue. Dave, I appreciate your help in managing the conversation so it could stay on track.

Alan

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi Alan and all,

Insofar as I am aware, I dont think I follow any particular defined method with mental prayer. Is there a site that explains ‘centering prayer’ that is not a complex explanation (Barb here remember!) and one that has Church approval? They would be my two criteria :

l. Simplicity
2. Has approval of Catholic Church

From those positions, I will be able to make up my own mind about Centering Prayer. A link to a site explaining the method may be helpful to others too who may not, like me, insight what Centering Prayer is about - hence refraining from posting. I sighted this thread previously, but since I know nothing of CP as a method of mental prayer I bypassed the thread.

Thanks heaps…Barb

 

[radhika]

awalt:

I have been reading and learning about CP, and while I have not found it as productive as I would like (in terms of whether I am feeling the Holy Spirit coming to me), the theory of CP makes total sense to me and belongs in a Catholic’s prayer “arsenal”.

Why?

To me, the prayers we do otherwise, whether they repetitive with contemplation (rosary), rote (Our Father), conversational (our own words), are heavy on the “us talking”. If prayer is a true establishment of a relationship with God, where is the listening? To me, CP is just and only that - “listening”. Whether I prayerfully read the Scriptures or Imitation of Christ, or whether I sit silently and listen for what God may choose to say to me while I am in a reverential place, that’s all CP is. And I think listening is as much of a factor in building our love and relationship with God as talking is.

My .02…

By “Emptying yourself” is meant ridding yourself of your ego, your thoughts of yourself, your feelings and your concerns and concentrate on Him. We should endeavour to develop a quiet and silent mind free of our own concerns and ourselves, then MAYBE we can truely “hear”. remember St John went through many frustrating years of trial before he could actually"hear" and “be” with God. This is what CP would mean to me…