Who is Jesus in Islam?

  • Thread starter Thread starter uglygal
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
planten said:
No such thing. We read the bible OT and find the prophets all over the place, from Noah(even though you may not feel that he was a prophet) to Abraham and to issac and jacob and Joseph and Moses and then many hundreds of prophets in the line of Moses. We Muslims are not wrong. The Jewish beliefs are supporting us.

It is the christians who have started something entirely different, i.e. making a god of a simple weak man (Jesus). That was not necessary at all. He was a Jewish prophet only, the last one in the line of the Jewish prophets amongst the children of Israel. He suffered much, was punished and ridiculed and went away.

The Quran is telling all the truth and proper history of the Jews and the christians. We believe all that to be true.
Click to expand...
The Koran telling proper history of the Jews and Christians? Where is that in the Koran? Actually, what is written in the Koran about Jesus is not adequate and functions only to leave the believers in constant suspense! The Koran does not even know why Christians call Jesus the Son of God, nor can it understand the true Christian Trinity!

Your beloved Scripture says that Jesus was also the only Messiah! Sorry, I always forget that the Koran randomly uses that title without grasping its meaning!

Tell me another Jewish prophet - one apart from Jesus -
Who was born of a virgin
Who performed great miracles to present Himself and His power
Who was called The Word of Allah and a Spirit from Allah
Who could change the Mosaic Law
Who was saved from crucifixion and death
Who was assumed to Allah’s presence

It is YOU Muslims who try to base Jesus’ status back to that of a prophet’s for the sole purpose of declaring your Mohammad the final and universal messenger.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
planten said:
… It is the christians who have started something entirely different, i.e. making a god of a simple weak man (Jesus)…
Click to expand...
You forgot to mention the part where Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary, died for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later.
 
Originally Posted by Angelos
Who will clear the Koran of the forged statements added into it by Muslim scholars? Allah forgetting to be explicit in his verses so that Muslims can fill in the blanks freely, right?
Click to expand...
The funny thing is that 3:55 is supposed to be said by Allah to Issa prior to the plot of crucifixion. By expecting Allah to condemn the Christian faith in Jesus’ divine sonship, you also accept that people called Issa “the son of God” when He was with them. However, this presumption is nothing else than anachronism: according to the Koran, Christians believed Jesus to be the Son of God after His alleged assumption to heaven.
Click to expand...
What about 5:110? Nothing invented by Muslims about that verse yet?
Click to expand...
Peace,
Angelos N.B.
Click to expand...
I have to explain for the benefit of Chalie and angelos about crucifixion. To be crucified is to die on the cross, not just being put on the cross. If the man does not die on the cross then it is understood that he was not crucified. So much for the meaning of Crucifixtion.

Now about the words of Quran. Quran tells us that Jesus was niether killed nor crucified. That means, even though he was put on the cross and suffered much, he did not die on the cross.

Next is the terrible enmity Jesus faced. He called people for help. The disciples came forward and announced that they will support him all the way. That is all in the Quran. It was known to Jesus that his enemies (Jews) were planning to kill him on the cross to prove that he was a cursed person, as such he was not a prophet of God. Jesus came to know about their plan. So he prayed and called people for help. (Chapter three of Quran, also see bible NT where the whole night prayer of Jesus is mentioned so that God may take away the cup from him… before his arrest…).

The bible is quiet on the subject but the Quran tells us that the enemies planned and God also planned and God’s plans are the best. (Quran 3:54).

Then Quran goes further and tells that God spoke to Jesus and informed him that he will
  1. Die a natural death (that means he will not be killed and will not die on the cross).
  2. God will raise him in ranks close to himself (Means he will not be a cursed person away from the mercy of God).
  3. That Allah will manage to wipe out all the bad words that may be attached to Jesus (That is by the coming of another prophet, God will wipe out ant bad names about Jesus and his life).
  4. Allah will make the believers in Jesus to prevail upon the opponents of Jesus till the day of judgement.
Allah made these four promises to Jesus and all the four promises were fulfilled. The first of those was that he will die a natural death. The word in Arabic is “Mutawaffeeka”.

So all is there in the Quran and part of it is in the bible too. How it is possible that the prayer of Jesus may not be accepted by his God. Jesus had a god to whom he prayed in the garden. He had a god whom he called while on the cross “MY God, MY God, Why have you forsaken me?”

Please all christians try to understand. Jesus had a God whom he worshipped. And we Muslims worship the same God.
 
planten said:
Sign is a sign. It is applicable to miracles. It is same as Jesus said, “The wicked generation seeks a sign…”
Click to expand...
people were asking for a sign…a sign is something seen in order to prove something right? people want signs to believe…what do you call that something that you can neither see, touch nor prove? do you call it a sign? if not, how do you define the virgin birth of Jesus as a “sign” if it can be neither seen nor proved?
 
inJESUS said:
people were asking for a sign…a sign is something seen in order to prove something right? people want signs to believe…what do you call that something that you can neither see, touch nor prove? do you call it a sign? if not, how do you define the virgin birth of Jesus as a “sign” if it can be neither seen nor proved?
Click to expand...
I do not define it and do not want to prove it. It is your job nd I am sure that you also have no proof. That sign you cannot see. I had defined the word “Sign”. I hope it was good enough?

But if you are talking about Jesus being a sign for the people, that is a different matter. Jesus was a sign and I understand it. But it was not his virgin birth which was a sign. It was something else.

Now, I write something about the topic. Who is Jesus in Islam.

Jesus is called Isa in Islam, son of Maryam. He was the prophet of Allah, the messenger of Allah, the spirit from Allah, The word of Allah. But he was not Allah or the son of Allah. Thanks for asking.
 
planten said:
I have to explain for the benefit of Chalie and angelos about crucifixion. To be crucified is to die on the cross, not just being put on the cross. If the man does not die on the cross then it is understood that he was not crucified. So much for the meaning of Crucifixtion.
Click to expand...
Very weak argument supported by shallow reasoning! (Pardon me if my words sound a bit too harsh since I fail to control my vocabulary in times of shock) That is purely YOUR personal interpretation of the word Crucifixion. However, it makes no sense. The supposed survival of the crucified person can deny the physical fact that he had formerly been crucified? No way! If a person survives an accident, the survival cannot change the fact that the accident happened! Actually, the NT accounts clarify us on this issue when they refer to the soldiers’ act of nailing Jesus to the cross prior to His death with the word “crucify”:

**Matthew 27: 35 **And after they had crucified him, they divided his garments, casting lots.

Matthew 27: 44 And the selfsame thing the thieves also that were crucified with him reproached him with.

Luke 23: 33 And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there: and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

In the light of these verses, I hope it will be easier for you to see that crucifixion does not necessarily mean being killed! Although Jesus did not apparently die as soon as He was crucified, the Evangelists did not avoid using the word crucifixion while referring to the type of His capital punishment.

You also uncannily say that “If the man does not die on the cross, then it is understood that he was not crucified”. Why is the man – who is said to survive the death - on the cross then? Answer: Because he was crucified. 🙂
planten said:
Now about the words of Quran. Quran tells us that Jesus was niether killed nor crucified. That means, even though he was put on the cross and suffered much, he did not die on the cross.
Click to expand...
Once more you are not presenting what the Koran teaches about the crucifixion, but how you personally construe the Koran verse in accordance with the new meaning you have conveyed to the word “crucify”. The Koran only says that “The Jews neither slew Him, nor crucified Him”. The occurrence of the separate clause “nor crucified Him” verifies my point that even the Koran considers crucifixion as the means of capital punishment and avoids using it interchangeably with the word “kill”. (Pay attention to the fact that the verse makes no logical or linguistic association between the denial of Jesus’ death and the separate denial of His crucifixion.)
planten said:
Next is the terrible enmity Jesus faced. He called people for help. The disciples came forward and announced that they will support him all the way. That is all in the Quran. It was known to Jesus that his enemies (Jews) were planning to kill him on the cross to prove that he was a cursed person, as such he was not a prophet of God. Jesus came to know about their plan. So he prayed and called people for help. (Chapter three of Quran, also see bible NT where the whole night prayer of Jesus is mentioned so that God may take away the cup from him… before his arrest…).

The bible is quiet on the subject but the Quran tells us that the enemies planned and God also planned and God’s plans are the best. (Quran 3:54).
Click to expand...
Excuse me, the Bible is silent on what? Have you seriously read the NT accounts of Jesus’ passion and death? One - third of the NT narratives are based on Jesus’ passion and death, for God’s sake! What else do we get from that verse in the Koran which says some people schemed and Allah also schemed? Sorry to say, that verse denotes more obscurity that clarity! Who were those people? Why did they try to kill Jesus? What kind of a plot did they plan? When? How and when did Allah respond to their plots? Did Jesus know that those enemies would try to crucify him? ALL of these questions are not answered in the Koran. The supposed answers come through wishful thinking.

to be continued…
 
planten said:
Then Quran goes further and tells that God spoke to Jesus and informed him that he will
  1. Die a natural death (that means he will not be killed and will not die on the cross).
  2. God will raise him in ranks close to himself (Means he will not be a cursed person away from the mercy of God).
  3. That Allah will manage to wipe out all the bad words that may be attached to Jesus (That is by the coming of another prophet, God will wipe out ant bad names about Jesus and his life).
  4. Allah will make the believers in Jesus to prevail upon the opponents of Jesus till the day of judgement.
Allah made these four promises to Jesus and all the four promises were fulfilled. The first of those was that he will die a natural death. The word in Arabic is “Mutawaffeeka”.
Click to expand...
Dying a natural death? The story of Jesus the prophet ends in the Koran with His supposed assumption, which is definitely associated with His adversaries’ plans to kill Him. If the Koran had supported your idea, it would have talked of the days of Jesus’ earthly life and prophetic ministry AFTER the incident of crucifixion! No such thing can be found in the Islamic Scripture.

For the sake of honesty, confess that the sentences in brackets are your personal interpretation of the Koran verses, which are open to multiple interpretations. Besides, members of Orthodox Islam do not agree with you that Jesus suffered in the hands of His adversaries and was humiliated, but somehow survived death! This is why I am not going to address your personal comments given in brackets.

The only thing I have to state here is that the Koran says Jesus was raised up to God Himself, not to ranks close to Allah as u claim:

4: 158. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.

3: 55. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.
planten said:
So all is there in the Quran and part of it is in the bible too. How it is possible that the prayer of Jesus may not be accepted by his God. Jesus had a god to whom he prayed in the garden. He had a god whom he called while on the cross “MY God, MY God, Why have you forsaken me?”

Please all christians try to understand. Jesus had a God whom he worshipped. And we Muslims worship the same God.
Click to expand...
How is it possible that you also believe in a fake Jesus whose god heard some of his prayers and could not save him from all his sufferings and humiliation? The Jesus you believe suffers, but does not die.

We might worship the same God as you Muslims, but we definitely don’t and won’t believe in the false image of Jesus in Islam.
 
Actually the Islamic position, based on the Qur’an, is that Jesus didn’t die, that Jesus wasn’t crucified, but instead he was raised up, and that he will return (i.e., in the future) and then he will die (i.e., in the future) and then he will be raised up again on the Day of Judgment (also in future).

Qur’an is pretty clear–they did not kill him NOR did they crucify him. In other words, neither happened–according to the Qur’an.
 
planten said:
… So all is there in the Quran and part of it is in the bible too. How it is possible that the prayer of Jesus may not be accepted by his God. Jesus had a god to whom he prayed in the garden. He had a god whom he called while on the cross “MY God, MY God, Why have you forsaken me?”

Please all christians try to understand. Jesus had a God whom he worshipped. And we Muslims worship the same God.
Click to expand...
It’s true that the Jesus and the Father are distinct persons. Paarsurrey (who oftern uses the same font size and font colour as you) once made the exact some point on a different thread. I replied then that the Father answered the prayer by sending Him an angel (Lk 22:43).
 
Sister_Amy said:
Actually the Islamic position, based on the Qur’an, is that Jesus didn’t die, that Jesus wasn’t crucified, but instead he was raised up, and that he will return (i.e., in the future) and then he will die (i.e., in the future) and then he will be raised up again on the Day of Judgment (also in future).

Qur’an is pretty clear–they did not kill him NOR did they crucify him. In other words, neither happened–according to the Qur’an.
Click to expand...
Hi again Sister Amy,

I think history is pretty clear that a significant crucifixion took place on Friday 3rd April 33 AD. Can Islam offer any truth as to who was crucified that day, and whether or not they survived the crucifixion?
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Sorry, I don’t understand. I’ll repeat the question; Can Islam offer any truth as to who was crucified on Friday 3rd April 33 AD, and whether or not they survived?
Click to expand...
That wasn’t really the point of my answer, I’m afraid. What I was saying is that the only one who really knows what happened is God Almighty–so I will trust what God Almighty says on the matter. And that is simply that Jesus wasn’t killed or crucified, period.

Beyond that… 🤷 I have no answers for you.
 
Sister_Amy said:
That wasn’t really the point of my answer, I’m afraid. What I was saying is that the only one who really knows what happened is God Almighty–so I will trust what God Almighty says on the matter. And that is simply that Jesus wasn’t killed or crucified, period.

Beyond that… 🤷 I have no answers for you.
Click to expand...
Yet that almighty god of yours conceals the supposed truth - that Jesus was not crucified - from everyone until the revelation of Koran in the 7th century? An almighty god that first beguiles people through an illusion and prevents them from knowing the truth due to his hatred and then conceals the truth through an obscure sentence in his book for the sole purpose of bragging about his deceptive strategy! However, that so-called almighty god somehow feels obliged to make his poor prophet Issa appear to have been crucified and murdered.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
You know that’s not what I believe, Angelos. But rather you’ve just made a mockery of my faith.

I believe that this idea of the crucifixion wasn’t something preached originally by Jesus’s followers but something which crept into the teachings later. Not that God, glorified and exalted be He, just tricked everyone. This is what you say in order to lower your opinion of Almighty God. It is not what Muslims teach.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You know that’s not what I believe, Angelos. But rather you’ve just made a mockery of my faith.

I believe that this idea of the crucifixion wasn’t something preached originally by Jesus’s followers but something which crept into the teachings later. Not that God, glorified and exalted be He, just tricked everyone. This is what you say in order to lower your opinion of Almighty God. It is not what Muslims teach.
Click to expand...
Hello Sister Amy,

Surely you can see the weakness of that argument. This argument can just as easily be turned upon the Islamic faith. We can just as easily say that the teaching crept into the Islamic faith by Muhammad’s followers.

It is true that the followers of Jesus preached about the crucifixion (although I don’t understand why you can’t believe that). But it can also be said the the foretellers of Jesus preached about the cruicifixion too; You see, the crucifixion fulfills prophecy. The crucifixion was God’s will.

I can accept that you don’t see the crucifixion as a sacrifice for our sins. But to completely deny that Jesus was crucified is a denial of history. It baffles me that history has failed us.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You know that’s not what I believe, Angelos. But rather you’ve just made a mockery of my faith.
Click to expand...
… and the Koran is always with you to make a mockery of my faith and of everyone believing that Jesus was crucified.

Sister Amy, I am not here to relate what you personally believe or how you personally interpret certain verses of your Scripture. I am here only to let people see what the Koran teaches about the cross.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
Angelos said:
Sister Amy, I am not here to relate what you personally believe or how you personally interpret certain verses of your Scripture. I am here only to let people see what the Koran teaches about the cross.
Click to expand...
If that is indeed your true purpose, you owe it to your audience to stop lying about the Qur’an. All the Qur’an says on the topic is that Jesus wasn’t killed or crucified–anything else, whether uttered by you or Ahmad Deedat, is just speculation and nothing more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top