Who is Jesus in Islam?

[Angelos]

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Angelos, I will not comment on your entire post. I have selected only the first verse of the Quran that you have presented. Please tell me if any one makes war against the God and the prophet then what should the prophet do?? Sit there and welcome him with open arms?? Please explain all that. If you can explain then only I may look at your other paragraphs post.

Dear Planten,

Do you really think that it is the prophet who is supposed to protect and/or defend Allah from the attacks of the unbelievers?

Read both the Gospels and some of the chapters in the Koran to see and be surprised that Issa/Jesus did nothing when His adversaries attacked and plotted to kill Him.

The interesting point about the verse 5: 33 is that it has more theological implications than political ones. Pay attention to the fact that it authorises all Muslims to punish the ones declaring war on both Allah and his messenger. How is it possible for humans to declare war on Allah or physically attack him? Accordingly, that verse opens the way to the punishment of everyone rejecting to believe in Allah, Mohammad, and the Koran. (Trinity of the religion named Islam) In other words, everyone going against Islam and criticizing its tenets can be and is considered the foe declaring war on Allah and his prophet. Scary indeed

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Dear FaithofAbraham,

First, you seem not to have read my post in its entirety or comprehended it. This might be associated with your weird resistance against the use of the negative structure in English and ignorance of the conjunction BUT. If your reasoning is true and if the Koran verse really means that nothing is forgotten, nothing is abrogated either! In consequence, that verse claims that similar or better verses are brought in vain. However, this is clearly not the case and the sentence overtly states that better or similar verses are always revealed in place of the ones either ABROGATED or deliberately FORGOTTEN.

Second, I agree that in the NT the original Law is not changed, but its meaning and scope are given more depth. In addition, I must remind you the fact that the original Law had been observed for hundreds of years until Christ gave it a deeper scope and meaning. The original Law and Christ’s sermon on the Mount were given at different periods and addressed different community of believers, which is totally different from the notion of abrogation in the Koran. More, the Koran has no firm reason for the abrogation.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

If you insist on calling it abrogation, as I implied it is the same type of abrogation that told Israelites under Moses to stone adulterers. But under Jesus it said, you can still stone adulterers, but only if you are sinless yourself. Which essentially means hardly anyone or maybe no one can rightfully do it.

The same Law of punishment was in effect, but Jesus explained tighter conditions on the ability to carry it out.

 

[Angelos]

If you insist on calling it abrogation, as I implied it is the same type of abrogation that told Israelites under Moses to stone adulterers. But under Jesus it said, you can still stone adulterers, but only if you are sinless yourself. Which essentially means hardly anyone or maybe no one can rightfully do it.

The same Law of punishment was in effect, but Jesus explained tighter conditions on the ability to carry it out.

Jesus forgave the adulteress in John 8 because He came to the world not to kill, but to save and give life. The Law, on the contrary, functioned as the reminder of humans’ depravity and sinful nature. The Mosaic Law was therefore enforced to punish sinners and became the means of God’s wrath. The NT, however, proclaimed salvation from sin and death through faith in Christ. God’s anger was replaced by God’s grace in Jesus, which is stated by John in his prologue to the Gospel:

John 1: 17 **The Law **was given through Moses, but truth and grace came through Jesus Christ.

Now we are still in the season of divine mercy and patience, but one day Jesus will return in order to judge the living and the dead and ask His holy angels to punish the evildoers and sinners.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Jesus forgave the adulteress in John 8 because He came to the world not to kill, but to save and give life. The Law, on the contrary, functioned as the reminder of humans’ depravity and sinful nature. The Mosaic Law was therefore enforced to punish sinners and became the means of God’s wrath. The NT, however, proclaimed salvation from sin and death through faith in Christ. God’s anger was replaced by God’s grace in Jesus, which is stated by John in his prologue to the Gospel:

But Jesus still didn’t change the Law. He said go ahead and stone her – IF YOU ARE SINLESS. He knew they all had filthy thoughts at one time or another like most men, so they didn’t do it, themselves being guilty of adultery in their minds. They would have to offer themselves up for the same stoning in order not to be hypocrites.

 

[Verisimilitude]

But Jesus still didn’t change the Law. He said go ahead and stone her – IF YOU ARE SINLESS. He knew they all had filthy thoughts at one time or another like most men, so they didn’t do it, themselves being guilty of adultery in their minds. They would have to offer themselves up for the same stoning in order not to be hypocrites.

Mohammed must not have heard that story. He threw a lot of stones in his day.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Mohammed must not have heard that story. He threw a lot of stones in his day.

That’s a whole different deal with the religions of Isaac vs. the religions of Ishmael, they both need to exist for prophecy. Then all will go away when the real religion of Jesus is here.

 

[Verisimilitude]

That’s a whole different deal with the religions of Isaac vs. the religions of Ishmael, they both need to exist for prophecy. Then all will go away when the real religion of Jesus is here.

The real religion of Jesus as you put it is here already. It is called Catholicism. Remember he said the Kingdom of God is at hand.

The religion(s) if Ishmael as you put it was warned about by Christ right here.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The real religion of Jesus as you put it is here already. It is called Catholicism. Remember he said the Kingdom of God is at hand.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The real religion of Jesus is going to have obedient priests and one belief for everyone and things like that. It’s not here yet.

 

[Verisimilitude]

John 18:36 Jesus answered,

I need to know the criteria you pick and choose what is uncorrupted in the NT. I would also like to know what faith you follow. Please update your profile to the brand of Mohammedan ideology you follow. It makes a difference.

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

This world was Created for us, Man. God is master of every realm to include Humanity’s so his incarnation as Christ should not be unremarkable to anyone who believes in an all powerful god such as the God of Abraham. Your allah is no such god.

If you accept that verse as true why not this one?
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

The real religion of Jesus is going to have obedient priests and one belief for everyone and things like that. It’s not here yet.

What a joke and an ill aimed shot at a tragedy institutionalized in the Arab/Muslim culture of powerful men and forced segregation of the sexes. Catholic priests make the personal private voluntary choice to follow God in that way of personal segregation and celibacy and the vast majority of men and women (Nuns/Sisters/Mothers) are without such inclination because of their very moral vocation.

It is absurd to suggest a religious culture that keeps average boys/men and girls/women segregated under strict observance social customs as being anywhere near as prevalent to abuse as the few priests (many victims) in the RCC. If the boys can’t play(sex) with the girls they sometimes play with each other, and boys that sometimes play together play when they are men…with boys and girls…because the women are hidden and forbidden. If Saudi Arabia is not the most devout example of Islam, and desire of those who call themselves Muslim… or defend it as you do…what is?

Christ’s example was one of shunning worldly power because His reality, the Kingdom he speaks about in the verse you quote is where we will be going.

John 14:2
In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.

Next time you quote a bible verse, particularly John you need to explain why you accept that verse and not any others. It is disingenuous not to do so. Either accept it all or nothing, or give an explanation.

I’ll give you an example. I believe Sura 72:1 is true and accurate because I believe that is what demons said about the Koran, and the spirit that told Mohammed this for him to repeat to others so they could memorize it so it could be written down later when they had something to write on and has been faithfully preserved.

I believe 4:104 & 5:57 because you won’t deny Mohammed was mocked we just differ as to why and there is no comparison to Christ. I say that to keep on the thread topic. Mohammed obviously mixed up OT stories and the Jews teased him about it. In response he wiped them out.

Look at the difference:

Luke 31Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. 33On the third day he will rise again.”

O you who believe! Take not for Auliya (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allah if you indeed are true believers.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #57)

I am sure you are aware:
Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one is that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am most close to jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life . They said: Allah’s Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and Jesus Christ). (Book #030, Hadith #5836) Muslim / (Book #55, Hadith #651) Bukhari

Jesus in Islam is akin to Mohammed, and that is spiritually offensive and factually wrong.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I need to know the criteria you pick and choose what is uncorrupted in the NT. I would also like to know what faith you follow. Please update your profile to the brand of Mohammedan ideology you follow. It makes a difference.

I don’t think the text is corrupt, I just reject some of the Christian interpretations of it.

This world was Created for us, Man. God is master of every realm to include Humanity’s so his incarnation as Christ should not be unremarkable to anyone who believes in an all powerful god such as the God of Abraham. Your allah is no such god.

I don’t see what sense it makes for one aspect of God to incarnate as a man who turns around and receives power from another aspect of God still in Heaven.

Why not just Jesus be a man who is obedient to God, and is deemed worthy of ruling over us like God because he is the best of humans. Which is what the NT really says anyway.

If you accept that verse as true why not this one?
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

“I am he the priest like Melchizedek who was before Abram was Abraham.”

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Hebrews 5:4-6 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus is saying he is the Messiah, called of God and honored by God. Not that he is the God who talked to Moses.

Jesus in Islam is akin to Mohammed, and that is spiritually offensive and factually wrong.

Many of the prophets were alike in that they faced persecution. But Jesus in the Quran is still the only one called Messiah, which is the King of David who rules the world, so he is not JUST like Mohammed in that regard.

I don’t accept Hadith though.

 

[tomshaikh]

Hello EveryOne,

As a Muslim i want to provide you something which islam said about Jesus PBUH

Islam honors all the prophets who were sent to mankind. Muslims respect all prophets in general, but Jesus in particular, because he was one of the prophets who foretold the coming of Muhammad. Muslims, too, await the second coming of Jesus. They consider him one of the greatest of Allah’s prophets to mankind. A Muslim does not refer to him simply as “Jesus,” but normally adds the phrase “peace be upon him” as a sign of respect.

No other religion in the world respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does. The Quran confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled “Mary”), and Mary is considered to have been one of the purest women in all creation. The Quran describes Jesus’ birth as follows:

"Behold!’ the Angel said, God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and he shall be of the righteous. She said: "My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?’ He said: “Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is.”[Noble Quran 3:42-47]

Muslims believe that Jesus was born immaculately, and through the same power which had brought Eve to life and Adam into being without a father or a mother.

“Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, ‘Be!’ and he was.”[Noble Quran 3:59]

During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. The Quran tells us that he said:

“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God’s leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by God’s leave.”[Noble Quran 3:49]

Muhammad and Jesus, as well as the other prophets, were sent to confirm the belief in one God. This is referred to in the Quran where Jesus is reported as saying that he came:

“To attest the law which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me.”
[Noble Quran 3:50]

Prophet Muhammad emphasized the importance of Jesus by saying: "Whoever believes there is no god but Allah, alone without partner, that Muhammad is His messenger, that Jesus is a servant and messenger of God, His word breathed into Mary and a spirit emanating from Him, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven. [Bukhari]

You Must Read this bibleislam.com/son_of_who.php

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I’m glad you think highly of Jesus. It’s too bad about the disagreement regarding the crucifixion.

I’m glad you think highly of Mary too.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I don’t accept Hadith though.

You don’t answer questions either. Are you ashamed to name your faith?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

You don’t answer questions either. Are you ashamed to name your faith?

I don’t fully agree with doctrines of any religion so I’m just solo.

 

[Angelos]

I’m glad you think highly of Jesus. It’s too bad about the disagreement regarding the crucifixion.

I’m glad you think highly of Mary too.

They only pretend to think highly of Jesus and Mary though! The Koran benefits from the twisted images of Jesus and Mary in support for the validity of Mohammad’s message and claims. The issue of self-interest overrides in the Koran: Mohammad says he believes in Jesus and Mary for the purpose of asking Christians to believe in him.

The illusion theory Islam propogates with regard to Jesus’ crucifixion is present in all the Islamic claims about Jesus and Mary.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Angelos]

I don’t see what sense it makes for one aspect of God to incarnate as a man who turns around and receives power from another aspect of God still in Heaven.

It makes sense when you realize that Jesus talks of Him as the Son , and of God as the Father. Besides, incarnation adds humanity to Jesus’ divinity, which makes Him subordinate to God the Father.

Why not just Jesus be a man who is obedient to God, and is deemed worthy of ruling over us like God because he is the best of humans. Which is what the NT really says anyway.

You will never understand what the NT really says and teaches about Jesus unless you stop picking up a few verses from it to support your personal interpretation.

“I am he the priest like Melchizedek who was before Abram was Abraham.”

You use a simile here, which is not present in Jesus’ utterance with regard to Abraham. He says Before Abraham WAS MADE, I AM": Jesus existed before Abraham was even created!

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Another example of your selective rading! Jesus also says:

8: 14-16 Jesus answered and said to them: Although I give testimony of myself, my testimony is true: for I know whence I came and whither I go.

Hebrews 5:4-6 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus is saying he is the Messiah, called of God and honored by God. Not that he is the God who talked to Moses.

This passage proves but Jesus was made the high priest by God. It addresses Jewish audience that objected to Jesus’ identification as the Jewish high priest. Nevertheless, the same epistle to the Hebrew also says right in the introductory chapter:

1:1-3 God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, In these days, hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

These verses make it clear that Jesus is no ordinary prophet or mere human.

peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I don’t fully agree with doctrines of any religion so I’m just solo.

I don’t often quote this book but for you here it is approrpiate:

Revelation 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Other Moslems here…Western Moslems specifically are generally reluctant to admit their faith or are some bastardized form of it. It is useless to debate such a moving target and serves nothing. Legitimate Mohammedans would ‘fight’ you just as surely as they would the Sufi, and other non-Moslems.

I can guess Sister Amy’s brand but wish she would say…but she hasn’t as far as I have seen. paarsurrey and planten seem two peas in Ahmadi pod and tomshaikh is still up for debate. I forget if meedo has ever said. The few Sunni who have openly declared here have been the most honest if the most brief.

 

[planten]

They only pretend to think highly of Jesus and Mary though! The Koran benefits from the twisted images of Jesus and Mary in support for the validity of Mohammad’s message and claims. The issue of self-interest overrides in the Koran: Mohammad says he believes in Jesus and Mary for the purpose of asking Christians to believe in him.

The illusion theory Islam propogates with regard to Jesus’ crucifixion is present in all the Islamic claims about Jesus and Mary.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

**That is completely wrong. We do admire and respect Jesus as much as we do any other prophet of God. It is wrong to doubt that. We have the love of Jesus and Mary in our heart, no doubt about that. But if you say that we admit any man as God, we certainly deny that furiously.

So please do not feel hurt. Jesus or Moses or Abraham or Muhammad or Budha are not gods. That is the end of. your assertion.
You cannot take away the love and respect of Jesus from our hearts. That is because it is all written in the most sacred book “Quran”. Our belief is nothing against Quran, no more no less. So why should any one try to put doubt about our beliefs when the quran is a witness to that for the last 1400 years !!!**

 

[planten]

**
The funny thing is that Jesus is a man and a son of a man and a god and a son of a god and a prophet and perhaps few more things all at the same time. How could all that be except to decieve the people?

Then another thing. Jesus who was a god, had a god too. Jesus had a god to whom he prayed in the garden and to whom he cried during the painful stage on the cross. Jesus had a God. So can we say that he was a God too. Then how many gods will be in the church. Surely more than one. So where is monotheism?**

 

[AgnosTheist]

So where is monotheism?

Do you know the human condition known as Split-Personalities? The God of Christianity is like that.