Who is Jesus in Islam?

[Reuben_J]

**

…

So please do not feel hurt. Jesus or Moses or Abraham or Muhammad or Budha are not gods. That is the end of. your assertion.

…

**

Also, please do not feel hurt. Mohammad was not a prophet of God, in fact on the contrary, who told you that Jesus is not God. That is the end of your assertion.

Sorry for saying that but it is the truth. Non-prophet of God would not tell the truth.

 

[Angelos]

**
The funny thing is that Jesus is a man and a son of a man and a god and a son of a god and a prophet and perhaps few more things all at the same time. How could all that be except to decieve the people?
**

The real funny thing is that most of your weak arguments contradict the very Koran you consider the word of Allah!

Issa in the Koran is a prophet, and the Messiah, and the word of Allah, and a Spirit from Allah, and a sign for the universe… Your reasoning makes me think that all these titles are assigned to Issa in the Koran only to deceive people.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Angelos]

**That is completely wrong. We do admire and respect Jesus as much as we do any other prophet of God. It is wrong to doubt that. We have the love of Jesus and Mary in our heart, no doubt about that. But if you say that we admit any man as God, we certainly deny that furiously.

So please do not feel hurt. Jesus or Moses or Abraham or Muhammad or Budha are not gods. That is the end of. your assertion.
You cannot take away the love and respect of Jesus from our hearts. That is because it is all written in the most sacred book “Quran”. Our belief is nothing against Quran, no more no less. So why should any one try to put doubt about our beliefs when the quran is a witness to that for the last 1400 years !!!**

Dear Planten,

Read my posts more carefully before judging me!

I do not deny that you respect Jesus and Mary, but I believe that the Islamic veneration of Jesus and Mary is not sincere since it apparently serves Mohammad’s personal interests. If you had really believed in Jesus as you believed in Mohammad, you would not be denying the authenticity of the Bible in order to validate the Koran. Since you claim that Jesus’ teaching was corrupted and Mohammad was revealed the Koran to correct those supposed mistakes, I regard your love and respect for Jesus absolutely fake. You only love Jesus for the sake of Mohammad and his message whilst you love Mohammad at the expense of Jesus.

Moreover, your post testifies to the fact that Islam aims to manipulate biblical figures and compel them to serve Mohammad’s teachings. You try to steal Jesus from us as you try to steal Abraham and Moses from Jews. Sorry to say, your assertion to know Jesus and Mary better than Christians makes no sense to me. Only a recitation of lies…

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I don’t often quote this book but for you here it is approrpiate:

Revelation 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Other Moslems here…Western Moslems specifically are generally reluctant to admit their faith or are some bastardized form of it. It is useless to debate such a moving target and serves nothing. Legitimate Mohammedans would ‘fight’ you just as surely as they would the Sufi, and other non-Moslems.

I can guess Sister Amy’s brand but wish she would say…but she hasn’t as far as I have seen. paarsurrey and planten seem two peas in Ahmadi pod and tomshaikh is still up for debate. I forget if meedo has ever said. The few Sunni who have openly declared here have been the most honest if the most brief.

When have you ever seen me lukewarm on any issue, or pulled any punches with my beliefs? I’m hardly a moving target, I make no mystery of what I believe.

I don’t believe in Trinity or that God was born as a man so I’m not considered Christian by most Christians.

I believe Jesus died on the cross, I reject Hadith and all those formal prayers and things in them, so I’m not considered Muslim by most Muslims.

So would it be more honest to say I’m a weird kind of Muslim or Christian? What box would you rather see me in?

Or more honest to say I just go it alone with the Bible and Quran, which is what I actually do?

 

[inJESUS]

**

The funny thing is that Jesus is a man and a son of a man and a god and a son of a god and a prophet and perhaps few more things all at the same time. How could all that be except to decieve the people?**

 

[planten]

Dear Planten,

Read my posts more carefully before judging me!

I do not deny that you respect Jesus and Mary, but I believe that the Islamic veneration of Jesus and Mary is not sincere since it apparently serves Mohammad’s personal interests. If you had really believed in Jesus as you believed in Mohammad, you would not be denying the authenticity of the Bible in order to validate the Koran. Since you claim that Jesus’ teaching was corrupted and Mohammad was revealed the Koran to correct those supposed mistakes, I regard your love and respect for Jesus absolutely fake. You only love Jesus for the sake of Mohammad and his message whilst you love Mohammad at the expense of Jesus.

Moreover, your post testifies to the fact that Islam aims to manipulate biblical figures and compel them to serve Mohammad’s teachings. You try to steal Jesus from us as you try to steal Abraham and Moses from Jews. Sorry to say, your assertion to know Jesus and Mary better than Christians makes no sense to me. Only a recitation of lies…

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

** Muhammad did not have any personal axe to grind. He loved and supported Jesus as did every other man of god. It was definitely wrong of the christians to wander away from the real theme of monotheism that was coming from the ancestors, their Jews and other prophets. That was the wrong thing done by the church.

Now on some flimsy excuse you are trying to malign Muhammad that he had some personal purpose. Nothing of the sort. Islam is a well established religion in the world. It is not based on the denial or hatred of any one. Your theory of one in three and three in one is a proof that you are wrong. There is no such mathematics in the world in any college.

Apart from that there are so many other irrational beliefs in christianity, many of them. Instead of looking into them you are saying that Muhammad had some bad idea. So well it may be to you according to your allegation

Please you propagate your religion that Jesus is a god and son of god at the same time. That he is a man and a son of man at the same time. But we do not believe in that. We say that Jesus is not the son of god. He is the son of a woman. And that is the truth. Please don’t mind… In Quran, every where Jesus is mentioned as the son of Mary, a woman. So how could any Muslim believe that Jesus was a son of God.**

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by Angelos
Dear Planten,

Read my posts more carefully before judging me!

I do not deny that you respect Jesus and Mary, but I believe that the Islamic veneration of Jesus and Mary is not sincere

**Is there any scale to measure sincerity?? Please do not doubt anything. That is a sin. That is written in the Quran. “Most of the doubts are sins.”

I do not doubt that you love Jesus, that you believe he was son of god. But you have doubt about our beliefs.**

 

[planten]

Do you know the human condition known as Split-Personalities? The God of Christianity is like that.

** I don’t believe what you say unless you are a christian yourself. Please forgive me to ignore your idea even though it may be meaningful.**

 

[planten]

The real funny thing is that most of your weak arguments contradict the very Koran you consider the word of Allah!

Issa in the Koran is a prophet, and the Messiah, and the word of Allah, and a Spirit from Allah, and a sign for the universe… Your reasoning makes me think that all these titles are assigned to Issa in the Koran only to deceive people.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

That all means Jesus is a human being. Because prophets and messengers of God are all human. Easy to understand. Did you ever hear that a prophet was a god?

 

[inJESUS]

It was definitely wrong of the christians to wander away from the real theme of monotheism

can you tell us how do we wander away from monotheism according to the Quran?

because we believe in One Father (Allah), The Word **of the Father **(Jesus) and the Spirit of the Father.

What does the Quran teach? that we believe Mary is divine and part of Trinity?

that Jesus is not God because He used to eat?
that Jesus is not the son of God because God did not get married?

that Trinity is 3 gods?

When you put aside the misrepresentations of the Quran , clean your mind, and think about " we believe in One Father (Allah), The Word **of the Father **(Jesus) and the Spirit of the Father.

only then will you tell us how this belief in itself is not monotheism, when you as a Muslim believe the Word of Allah is eternal and uncreated but is not Allah, and that the Spirit of Allah is omnipotent and omnipresent yet it is not Allah?

Islam is a well established religion in the world. It is not based on the denial or hatred of any one. Your theory of one in three and three in one is a proof that you are wrong.

 

[planten]

you believe Jesus is a man, a son of man, a rabbi, a prophet, the Word of Allah, the Spirit of Allah…what is funny about this?

 

[inJESUS]

so , many titles are not a funny thing after all.
What you find funny is how can God become a man yet stay God? but it’s not funny when Allah talks with humans as if he were a human, using human voice and in Arabic, says He has chin and eyes and feet and hands? these are not funny because they are “not true” physically…but if God decides to come just as He describes Himself (or at least does NOT mind describing himself in that way), it becomes funny?

I could not form any idea about a good reply to the last part of your post. Thanks.

please do take time to ponder about my question…only then will you start seeing things differently, at least theologically speaking.

 

[Angelos]

That all means Jesus is a human being. Because prophets and messengers of God are all human. Easy to understand. Did you ever hear that a prophet was a god?

If you had read my post carefully, you would understand that my response meant to accentuate how various titles ascribed to Jesus in the NT supported His divinity and did not cause confusion in contrast to the assertions of a Muslim posting here.

Your response, on the other hand, does not prove anything since the Koran presents Jesus as the only Messiah in many verses and claims Him to be nothing more than a prophet! The term Messiah is apparently different from the term Messenger (prophet). Notice that Jesus is the only Messiah among the messengers of the Koran.

Finally, your argument that Jesus cannot be god because no other prophet was called God before is fallacious. The same argument could be readily used against you: no other prophet in the Koran had been deified by any community before. Thus, Jesus is unique and the Christian tenet that Jesus is God cannot be wrong since deifying a messenger was a mistake none of the former communities were prone to make. There is something special about Jesus!

Peace to all,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… So how could any Muslim believe that Jesus was a son of God.

It’s rather simple.

You first take your belief that He was born from the Virgin Mary. And then take it from there.

You know, children understand this so well. Maybe that’s what Jesus meant when he said “Unless you become like children… you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)

 

[undeserving]

Hi

Now take another one if you like; but I know you won’t believe me as such. This much I learn from experience.

This I get from somebody else on these forums. Attempting to change someone else’s mind is not the only reason for discussion. It could also be to gain better understanding of opposing views, put one’s favored views to the test, and so on.

It is a learning process the whole life. Our truthful ProphetMessenger Muhammad commanded Muslims to learn from cradle to the grave. Jesus did the same. He died in India, learning from GodAllahYHWH and spreading it among others till he died a natural death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.

I think you agree with me.

You are a nice friend, for sure

Thanks and regards

Have you seen these so called graves? Muslims in Kashmire point out to two neglected lumps of earth and say these are Mary’s and the Lord’s grave. They don’t seem to be very convinced, and no one venerates these graves believe me. It seems a kind of joke.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Easy to understand. Did you ever hear that a prophet was a god?

No legitimate prophet would claim they are a god and be accepted. Why do you think Catholics believe Christ is God? Rational people would need proof of His raising from the dead. There would be many witnesses and some would write them down.

Mohammeds ‘persecution’ consisted of a boycott but no violence or death before fleeing to Medina and become a power. The number of his followers were small in number before fleeing, but grew in number due to the spoils of war and forced acceptance upon pagan Arabs- death for the unbeliver.

Christs persecution resulted in death. His followers were persecuted and killed but grew in number due to…what? Why do you think so many believed?

The first 200 years of Christianity it was forced underground and persecuted by the civil law. The first 200 years of Islam and millions were subdued by the sword, inforced dhimmitude on the vanquished and/or forced conversions and Islam became the civil law by force.

There are more Catholics than Muslims. There are more non-Catholic Christians than Catholics. Jews make up less than 1/4 of 1% of the worlds population. Christ was a Jew.

If you have eyes to see; look. If you have ears to hear; listen. Jesus’ message is better documented and rings more True than Mohammeds. Mohammed was lied to and then he passed on those lies to you as noted in the quran.

 

[planten]

No legitimate prophet would claim they are a god and be accepted.

Why do you think Catholics believe Christ is God? Rational people would need proof of His raising from the dead. There would be many witnesses and some would write them down.

** That is not true at all. The Quran also says that Jesus was near dead nd he appeared to all as dead. But he was not dead**.

Mohammeds ‘persecution’ consisted of a boycott but no violence or death before fleeing to Medina and become a power. The number of his followers were small in number before fleeing, but grew in number due to the spoils of war and forced acceptance upon pagan Arabs- death for the unbeliver.

**Not true. There was maximum persecution of the early Muslims. So much that they had to run away (migrate) to a nearby christian country.( Habshah). Because Muhammad was a true prophet of God that is why he was successful in defeating his enemies. God helped him as he helps his truely chosen persons.

There was no persecution of the Muslims in the end because teh enemies of truth were defeated. Muslims did not have to suffer like the christians for 300 years.**

Christs persecution resulted in death. His followers were persecuted and killed but grew in number due to…what? Why do you think so many believed?

Quran describes that the followers of Jesus were supported by Allah and they overcame their enemies. That is written in the Quran. But that was after much suffering.

The first 200 years of Christianity it was forced underground and persecuted by the civil law. The first 200 years of Islam and millions were subdued by the sword, inforced dhimmitude on the vanquished and/or forced conversions and Islam became the civil law by force.

**The christians were persecuted and suffered much for a very long time. 300 years is not a short time. It is almost as much as the Jews suffered in Egypt as slave boys and slave girls.

But it is wrong that any one was converted into islam by sword. That is not true. Rather the christians did not allow any one to convert to any faith other than the church. So the Muslims had to fight such bad forces to liberate the innocent people.**

There are more Catholics than Muslims. There are more non-Catholic Christians than Catholics. Jews make up less than 1/4 of 1% of the worlds population. Christ was a Jew.

I won’t deny that. It may be true. I have no serious data of the world population. Jesus was a Jew and a very good one. All his friends were Jews. he had come for the Jews and not for the christians.

If you have eyes to see; look. If you have ears to hear; listen. Jesus’ message is better documented and rings more True than Mohammeds. Mohammed was lied to and then he passed on those lies to you as noted in the quran.

** It is useless to reply to every bad allegation.**