Who is muhammed-please choose

[meedo]

There is no excuse for slavery and genocide. Mohammad’s “judge” was nothing but a kangaroo court. Mohammad was the Overlord and he had the power to be merciful if he only wished to be so.

Apparently you live in a dream world. There is no genocide , it is a fair punishment. For horrible discusting crime. ´There is no form of treason worse than what this tribe did. they deserved their punishment. if i ws a ruler today i would do the same. Only i wouldnt allow them to pick their judge.

Its easy for you to judge, because it wasnt your country that was on teh brink of annihilation by traitors. What you just said above shows you are perfectly capable of judging others by different standards that you would hold for yourself.

Its funny how ýou talk. there is much more horrible punishments sanctioned by your God in the bible than the one mentioned above. Go and tell your words to your God before you tell them to me!!

 

[Angelos]

Kudos to you, Angelos! Great posts!

Vickie

Praise the Lord, Booklover.

:hug1:

 

[IvanKaramozov]

No. I have sufficient information that Mohammad had schizophrenia and that the voices he heard were but the product of his imagination. But he sincerely believed it came from an angel. Sincerely mistaken.

Right, he heard voices=Schitzophrenia.

Of course people with Bi Polar disorder can also have audity hallucinations.

What is this information, are you a psychologist?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Right, he heard voices=Schitzophrenia.

*Schizophrenia, from the Greek roots schizein (σχίζειν, “to split”) and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-, “mind”), is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction. *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Of course people with Bi Polar disorder can also have audity hallucinations.

whatever it was, it has to be some form of psychosis. its either that explanation or we will have to assume that he knowingly made the whole thing up from the very start. the supernatural is simply out of the question, unless there is are supernatural evidences to support the assertion. which there are none. mohammad even admitted in the koran that he is incapable of giving signs.

What is this information, are you a psychologist?

Here is one observation coming from his own child-wife:

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400:
Narrated Aisha:
*Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. *

 

[Sister_Amy]

No. I have sufficient information that Mohammad had schizophrenia and that the voices he heard were but the product of his imagination. But he sincerely believed it came from an angel. Sincerely mistaken.

What about when other people witnessed the angel too?

 

[AgnosTheist]

What about when other people witnessed the angel too?

that would surely be worth something. it depends, but its better than nothing.

i said ‘it depends’ because we cant just take such claims blindly. afterall some people witnessed seeing Joseph Smith’s golden plates. you wont just believe that. the same measure goes for everyone.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Yeah, but we have at least 7 or 8 people who witnessed the angel Gabriel–and these 7/8 are among the most reliable witnesses according to Islamic tradition. And their testimony passing through various chains of narration. So pretty authentic.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Yeah, but we have at least 7 or 8 people who witnessed the angel Gabriel–and these 7/8 are among the most reliable witnesses according to Islamic tradition. And their testimony passing through various chains of narration. So pretty authentic.

Mormons have over 20 ‘reliable’ witnesses so why not believe them? The Gospels are eye witness accounts, why not believe them?

Why are you so accepting of Moslem witnesses and no others? The Quran does not record anyone as a witness like the Bible does. Why are Moslem traditions so reliable and not Catholic? Why doesn’t the Koran record it was Gabriel instead of an unreliable hadith from a 3rd/5th party who wasn’t even there?

 

[LaMar]

Mormons have over 20 ‘reliable’ witnesses so why not believe them? The Gospels are eye witness accounts, why not believe them?

No we don’t. All those people later either recanted, or made allusions like “well I only saw the plates with the eyes of my understanding” which was a 19th century allusion to one’s imagination.

Most Mormons today, outside of Utah, will admit that they feel the Book of Mormon is probably inspired, but that the origins for it probably do not line up with the traditional ideas of angels and gold plates.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Yeah, but we have at least 7 or 8 people who witnessed the angel Gabriel–and these 7/8 are among the most reliable witnesses according to Islamic tradition. And their testimony passing through various chains of narration. So pretty authentic.

I’d like to learn more about these witnesses. For all we know, they could be partners in crime.

Were any miracles performed by these witnesses? Or did they just preach.

Did they sacrifice anything for Allah? Or did they just collect the spoils of war.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… the founder of a religion which at its heart is a rebellion against the Holy Son of God…

This is true. Islam specifically denies Christ as the Son of God (Qur’an 5:17) and specifically denies the crucifixion (Qur’an 4:157).

 

[Reuben_J]

This is true. Islam specifically denies Christ as the Son of God (Qur’an 5:17) and specifically denies the crucifixion (Qur’an 4:157).

And for that, in answering the question of the thread, Mohammad could not be prophet/anything that came from God. As simple as that.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Right, he heard voices=Schitzophrenia.

Of course people with Bi Polar disorder can also have audity hallucinations.

What is this information, are you a psychologist?

Atheists often say that about all the prophets including Jesus. Or that they were tripping on drugs. Typical information of skeptics.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

This is true. Islam specifically denies Christ as the Son of God (Qur’an 5:17) and specifically denies the crucifixion (Qur’an 4:157).

Those are two interpretations.

Others are only that God didn’t have sex with Mary to create Jesus.

And that Jesus was not killed by Jews or Romans with the cross, but killed by God while he was on the cross before the cross could kill him.

Nothing contradicts the NT there.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Are you kidding me, FaithOfAbraham? Or are you just wasting my time?

The NT teaches that Jesus is the Son of God.

The NT teaches that Jesus died on the Cross.

Find me a muslim who believe in these facts and I’ll take you seriously. Meanwhile, you should be ashamed to use the name “FaithOfAbraham”. Haven’t you read Galatians 3:29…
If you belong to Christ, then you are the descendants of Abraham and will receive what God has promised.

 

[swariffin]

please choose your understanding of muhammed

Dear all,

My faith is not in the Quran. So, based on my small understanding about Islam, I would say that Muhammad is a person who saw the wrong doing of his people, and try to search for God’s teaching to correct those wrong doings.

 

[porkscratchings]

I picked neither prophet or representative of God.

The reasons are:

1. muslims believe that Mohammed is the last prophet of a long line of prophets going back to Adam and Abraham. If that is is true, why does the Koran makes mistakes about Christian and Jewish practices? For example, the Koran describes the Christian trinity as God the Father, God the Son and Mary the Virgin, where historical dating back to the 1st C. show the Christians never perceived the Trinity in this way. It is clear that Mohammed never came from the same lineage of the prophets of Judaism who wrote the OT, nor had any relationship with Jesus or his disciples who wrote the NT. If he did descend from this lineage his book would show indepth knowledge of Jewish/Christian beliefs, as the OT and NT does.
2. The Koran describes Alexander the Great as being muslim - historical records have never indicated him as being anything other than Pagan. It is also impossible for Alexander to be muslim as he lived 336-332 BC, and Islam did not exist prior to 7th c. AD. U’d expect a representative of God to get things right, especially when the Koran came from God via the angel Gabriel.
3. Early Islam was prone to changes in how the faith is practiced - once Mohammed told his followers to pray towards Jerusalem, then he changed his mind in favour of Mecca. The Jewish/Christian never honoured any other place other than Israel and Jerusalem. So did God changed his mind? Or did Mohammed moved the centre of prayer for political reasons to establish a new religion under his authority? How is this personal ambition compatible with being a servant of God, never mind his representative on earth?

I could go on…

 

[AgnosTheist]

Yeah, but we have at least 7 or 8 people who witnessed the angel Gabriel–and these 7/8 are among the most reliable witnesses according to Islamic tradition. And their testimony passing through various chains of narration. So pretty authentic.

can you show us your source for islam’s witness?

 

[tomshaikh]

Hello EveryOne,

Miracle Of Al-Isra & Al-Miraj
(The night journey and the ascension of Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him)

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of t he Worlds, the One Who exists without a place. To Him belong the endowments and proper commendations. May Allah raise the rank of Prophet Muhammad and his kind Al and Companions and protect his nation from what he fears for them. May the Lord of Heavens and Earth grant us the sincere intentions and guide us to the acceptable deeds.

Thereafter, Allah sent the prophets as a mercy to the slaves and supported them with miracles to indicate the truthfulness of their message. Of all the prophets, our Prophet, Muhammad, was blessed with the most miracles. Al-Isra’ and al-Mi^raj are among the many miracles of Prophet Muhammad.

The miracle of al-Isra’ is confirmed in the Qur’an. In Surat al-Isra’, Ayah 1, Allah said:

which means: [Praise be to Allah Who enabled His slave, Muhammad, to make the journey at night from Masjid al-Haram in Makkah to Masjid al-Aqsa in Jerusalem, which is surrounded a blessed land.] This journey is also confirmed in the sahih hadith. As such, there is scholarly consensus (ijma^) Prophet Muhammad journeyed in body and soul the night of al-Isra’ from Masjid al-Haram in Makkah to Masjid al-Aqsain Jerusalem. Moreover, these scholars indicated the person who denies al-Isra’ is a blasphemer for belying the explicit text of the Qur’an.

Before the Prophet took this night journey, the ceiling of the house in which he was staying was opened, and Jibril descended. He cut open the chest of Prophet Muhammad and washed that open area with Zamzam water. Then he emptied something from a container into the chest of the Prophet to increase his wisdom as well as the strength of his belief. This was done to prepare the Messenger of Allah for that which he had yet to see in the upper world from among the wonders of the creation of Allah.​

Al-Isra’

After the Prophet performed the Evening Prayer (^Isha’), Jibril came to him with a white animal, slightly larger than a donkey yet smaller than a mule. This animal was the buraq,–one of the animals of Paradise. Jibril held the buraq by his ear and told the Prophet to mount it. When the buraq was mounted, the Prophet set forth.

The buraqis a very fast animal; the length of the buraq’s stride is the farthest distance it’s eye can see. The Prophet and Jibril arrived to a land with palm trees. Jibril told the Prophet to dismount and pray, so the Prophet dismounted the buraq and prayed two rak^as. Jibril asked him, “Do you know where you prayed?” and the Prophet answered, “Allah knows best.” Jibril told him, "This is Yathrib; this is Taybah. “.” (These are two names for the city of al-Madinah.) Before the Prophet emigrated to al-Madinah, it was called Taybah and Yathrib. It earned the name al-Madinah after the Prophet emigrated to it.

The buraq continued with the Prophet and Jibril until they reached another place. Again Jibril told the Prophet to get down and pray. The Prophet dismounted there and prayed two rak^as. Jibril informed the Prophet of the name of that place; it was Tur Sina’.

Once again the buraq took off with the Prophet and Jibril. Once again it stopped, and the Prophet dismounted and prayed two rak^as. This was in Bayt Lahm, where Prophet ^Isa (Jesus) was born. Then the buraq continued with the Messenger of Allah until they entered the city of Jerusalem. There the Prophet went to Masjid al-Aqsa. Outside was a ring used by the Messengers of Allah to tie their animals. The Prophet tied his buraq to this ring. Then the Prophet entered the masjid where Allah assembled for him all the Prophets–from Adam to ^Isa. Prophet Muhammad moved forward and led them all in prayer. This is an indication the Prophet is higher in status than all the rest of the prophets and messengers.

continued…

 

[tomshaikh]

1- On Prophet Muhammad’s journey from Masjid al-Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, Allah enabled him to see some of His wondrous creations. Allah enabled the Prophet to see the world (dunya) like an old woman. However, this old woman was wearing a great deal of jewelry, and in this there is an indication signifying the reality of the world.

2- Allah enabled the Prophet to see Iblis. The Prophet saw something on the side of the road which did not dare to stand in his way or speak to him. What the Prophet saw was Iblis. Originally, Iblis was a believer and lived with the angels in Paradise. When Allah ordered the angels to prostrate (sujud) to Prophet Adam, Iblis was ordered to prostrate to him as well. The angels prostrated to Adam in obedience to Allah, because angels do not disobey Allah. However, Iblis did not obey, and he objected to the order of Allah. He said, “You created me out of fire, and You created him out of clay. How do You order me to prostrate to him?” So this objection by Iblis to the order of Allah was the first blasphemy he committed.

3- On his journey, the Prophet smelled a very nice odor. He asked Jibril about this pleasant scent and Jibril informed him this good smell was coming from the grave of the woman whose duty used to be to comb Pharaoh’s daughter’s hair. This woman was a good, pious believer. One day, as she was combing Pharaoh’s daughter’s hair, the comb fell from her hand. At this she said, ""Bismillah. "Pharaoh’s daughter asked her, “Do you have a god other than my father?” The woman said, “Yes. My Lord and the Lord of your father is Allah.” Pharaoh’s daughter told her father what had happened. Pharaoh demanded this woman blaspheme and leave Islam, but she refused. At that, Pharaoh threatened to kill her children. He brought a great pot of water and built a great fire under it. When the water boiled, Pharaoh brought her children and started to drop them into that pot one after the other. Throughout all this, the woman remained steadfast to Islam, even when Pharaoh reached her youngest child–a little boy still breast feeding–but she felt pity for him. At that, Allah enabled this child to speak. He said to his mother, “O Mother, be patient. The torture of the Hereafter is far more severe than the torture of this life, and do not be reluctant, because you are right.” At this the woman requested Pharaoh collect her bones and the bones of her children and bury them in the same grave. Pharaoh promised her that–then dropped her into that boiling water. She died as a martyr. The good odor the Prophet smelled coming from her grave is an indication of her high status.

4- During his trip, the Prophet saw people who were planting and reaping in two days. Jibril told the Prophet, "These were the people who fight for the sake of Allah (mujahidun). “).”

5- The Prophet also saw people whose lips and tongues were clipped with scissors made of fire. Jibril told the Prophet, “These are the speakers of sedition (fitna) who call people to misguidance.”

6- He also saw a bull which exited a very small outlet, then was trying in vain to return through that small outlet. Jibril told the Prophet, “This is the example of the bad word–once spoken, it cannot be returned.”

7- The Prophet saw people grazing like animals, with very little clothing on their private parts. Jibril told the Prophet, "These are the ones who refused to pay zakat. “.”

8- The Prophet saw angels smashing some people’s heads with rocks. These heads would return to the shape they had been, and then the angels would smash their heads again–and so on. Jibril told the Prophet, “These are the ones whose heads felt too heavy to perform prayer–the ones who used to sleep without praying.”

9- On his journey the Prophet saw people who were competing to eat some rotten meat–ignoring meat that was sliced and unspoiled. Jibril told the Prophet, "These are people from your nation who leave out that which is permissible (halal), and consume that which is forbidden ((haram). "This reference was to the fornicators, that is, the ones who left out the permissible (marriage) and committed sins (fornication).

10- Also, the Prophet saw people who were drinking from the fluid coming from the bodies of the fornicators, (water mixed with blood). Jibril indicated to the Prophet these were the ones who were drinking the alcohol which is prohibited in this world.

11- The Prophet saw people scratching their faces and chests with brass finger nails. Jibril said, "These are the examples of those who commit gossip ((ghibah). “).”