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wittgenstein
Guest
Did not God create Satan? Is Satan the black sheep in the family, the rebellious son that chose the path of evil?
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Todd977
Guest
Yes, Satan is an angel who exercised his free will to rebel against God.
meltzerboy
New member
Not according to Judaism, which believes HaSatan is the angel who does the “dirty work” of tempting humans and testing their free will and devotion toward G-d. But he is not regarded as a demon or devil.
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billcu1
Guest
That’s more like it. I’m not quite sure where Satan comes from. People link him and Lucifer and there is no link. Lucifer is still and angel but Samyaza is not. I don’t know how many know of Samyaza, he was an angel at one time. Lucifer’s “big sin” was to get involved in man’s life wave in a way that he thought would be beneficial and he created “ambition” in man. He was removed from high angel status. Michael, Metratron are “archangels” and several more are involved with man now. Michael being Jesus’ “guardian angel”. And he was someone else’s angel hummm. In the T’noch.
Demon’s are a different concept. Tell a little truth, enough to get you hook and then lead you astray. That’s the problem with them. I know a little of several of mine. 3 female demons I have. Yes I wrestle with woman related issues.
Good job Meltzerboy
Bill
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Gary_Sheldrake
Guest
Good Evening Meltzerboy: You are always a wealth of information. I had always thought that Milton created Satan.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Interesting I did not know this about Judaism. Thanks for the info. Do all forms of Judaism hold this view?
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Skye_Ariel
Guest
Lucifer is the father of the devil. God created Lucifer and when God created Lucifer he was a good angel and just a created being of God’s the same way we are created beings of God’s. Then Lucifer corrupted himself and gave life to evil, by turning himself into an evil being. He became the manifestation of evil, so Lucifer is the father of evil, the father of the devil.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
That’s great for Judaism…but what does the Catholic Church say about the subject???
Anyone?
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Satan has no father. He is a spirit, angel, created by God with free will that he chose to exercise against God.
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JamalChristophr
Guest
Well, this is a good question for a scripture scholar. (which I am not! at least not much…lol)
I think some theologians speculate that “satan”, meaning the accuser, is an angel in God’s Army still, but I myself tend to doubt this. So I’m pretty sure “satan” is mentioned in the book of Job.
Let me see what Fr. Hardon says in his dictionary about “Satan”…
"Chief of the fallen angels. Enemy of God and humanity and everything good. Other names for Satan are the devil, Beelzebul, Belial, and Lucifer. The serpent that tempted eve was identified with Satan. In both OT and NT he is considered the adversary of God… the dominant features of this teaching is that a personal. malign force is active in the world attempting to pervert the designs of God."
God created Lucifer good in his original state, but Lucifer became evil or corrupted by his own designs.
I think some theologians speculate that “satan”, meaning the accuser, is an angel in God’s Army still, but I myself tend to doubt this. So I’m pretty sure “satan” is mentioned in the book of Job.
Let me see what Fr. Hardon says in his dictionary about “Satan”…
"Chief of the fallen angels. Enemy of God and humanity and everything good. Other names for Satan are the devil, Beelzebul, Belial, and Lucifer. The serpent that tempted eve was identified with Satan. In both OT and NT he is considered the adversary of God… the dominant features of this teaching is that a personal. malign force is active in the world attempting to pervert the designs of God."
God created Lucifer good in his original state, but Lucifer became evil or corrupted by his own designs.
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Pilgrim_333
Guest
“For to which of the angels hath he said at any time, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”
(Hebrews 1:5)
Further on the writer states that: “And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” (Hebrews 1:7)
The Accuser (Satan), as spirit, does not share in the sonship of the Eternal Son, nor does he, or any other spirit, share in the sonship of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who descended, put on the flesh of Adam, conquered Death, Hell and the Grave (the effects of sin) and ascended, thus redeeming the human race and allowing us to fulfill the wish of our common parents: divinity. It is by the victory and Grace of Christ that we dare to cry: Abba, Father! It is the Son who humbled Himself, put on our humanity and gave to us His divinity, so that we might be partakers in the divine nature.
Therefore, God is not the Father of Satan, or of any other created spirit; He is his Creator and was, is and shall be His Judge. It is by the Grace of Christ that we are truly and indeed sons and daughters of the Most High God, born again in the waters of baptism; there rests no grace upon the Satan.
(Hebrews 1:5)
Further on the writer states that: “And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” (Hebrews 1:7)
The Accuser (Satan), as spirit, does not share in the sonship of the Eternal Son, nor does he, or any other spirit, share in the sonship of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who descended, put on the flesh of Adam, conquered Death, Hell and the Grave (the effects of sin) and ascended, thus redeeming the human race and allowing us to fulfill the wish of our common parents: divinity. It is by the victory and Grace of Christ that we dare to cry: Abba, Father! It is the Son who humbled Himself, put on our humanity and gave to us His divinity, so that we might be partakers in the divine nature.
Therefore, God is not the Father of Satan, or of any other created spirit; He is his Creator and was, is and shall be His Judge. It is by the Grace of Christ that we are truly and indeed sons and daughters of the Most High God, born again in the waters of baptism; there rests no grace upon the Satan.
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phil_at_dayboro
Guest
Not me,
meltzerboy
New member
I hesitate to say they do, because I believe some reject the existence of Satan altogether, which is not a heretical notion. Judaism in general, particularly Orthodox streams, do not acknowledge the polarity of good and evil between the supreme Deity and His adversary (Satan) since this would imply, even if remotely, that Satan may be on an equal footing with G-d. That would be heresy.
meltzerboy
New member
Good, that’s a start!Not me,
meltzerboy
New member
Thanks for the compliment. Of course, the teaching of the Church regarding Satan, as well as that of Islam, differs.Good Evening Meltzerboy: You are always a wealth of information. I had always thought that Milton created Satan.
meltzerboy
New member
Thanks for the compliment. Judaism does believe in demons, but there is not too much emphasis on them except in folklore.That’s more like it. I’m not quite sure where Satan comes from. People link him and Lucifer and there is no link. Lucifer is still and angel but Samyaza is not. I don’t know how many know of Samyaza, he was an angel at one time. Lucifer’s “big sin” was to get involved in man’s life wave in a way that he thought would be beneficial and he created “ambition” in man. He was removed from high angel status. Michael, Metratron are “archangels” and several more are involved with man now. Michael being Jesus’ “guardian angel”. And he was someone else’s angel hummm. In the T’noch.
Demon’s are a different concept. Tell a little truth, enough to get you hook and then lead you astray. That’s the problem with them. I know a little of several of mine. 3 female demons I have. Yes I wrestle with woman related issues.
Good job Meltzerboy
Bill
F
friardchips
Guest
Jesus said Satan was a “murderer from the Beginning” (when Angels were given a choice of love or rebellion at the start) as all beings God Willed to choose Him freely.
Jesus pronounced seeing Satan “fall from the Heavens” (maybe not within our own human time frame).
God allows Satan to tempt us and the OT would be referring to this understanding - for example, the story of Job is likely to be a story only, not a real life event (exegesis needed), but gives the clear picture that Satan is the Tempter, and the Murderer, and the Accuser.
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Ignatius
Guest
That’s what the bible says.
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Genesis315
Guest
Here’s what the CCC says with plenty of Scriptural citations, as well as quoting the profession of faith from the Fourth Lateran Council:
II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275
266 Cf. Gen 3:1-5; Wis 2:24.
267 Cf Jn 8:44; Rev 12:9.
268 Lateran Council IV (1215), Canon 1
269 Cf. 2 Pet 2:4.
270 Gen 3:5.
271 1 Jn 3:8; Jn 8:44.
272 St. John Damascene, De Fide orth. 2,4: PG 94,877.
273 Jn 8:44; cf. Mt 4:1-11.
274 1 Jn 3:8.
275 Rom 8:28.
II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275
266 Cf. Gen 3:1-5; Wis 2:24.
267 Cf Jn 8:44; Rev 12:9.
268 Lateran Council IV (1215), Canon 1
269 Cf. 2 Pet 2:4.
270 Gen 3:5.
271 1 Jn 3:8; Jn 8:44.
272 St. John Damascene, De Fide orth. 2,4: PG 94,877.
273 Jn 8:44; cf. Mt 4:1-11.
274 1 Jn 3:8.
275 Rom 8:28.
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