Who is Satan's father?

[Nelka]

So, you are saying that lucifer is the father of himself.

Does this mean that all of us are the fathers of ourselves?

However, no matter how you put it, lucifer did not create himself, God created him.

Wouldn’t God have known just what lucifer was going to do since God is Omniscient?

Lucifer is the father of pride, lies and murder.

God created him as a beautiful angel but he decided he wanted more.

 

[Timothysis]

Lucifer is the father of pride, lies and murder.

God created him as a beautiful angel but he decided he wanted more.

There was no angel named Lucifer. The word “lucifer” is derived from a translation of “light bearer,” a title that is appropriate for Jesus Himself. It is not used as a proper name.

Please cite sources or Church teachings that says an angel of God “decided he wanted more.”

 

[Norrin_Radd]

I have no desire to play a game of Armchair Theologian. Suffice it to say that the Church does not teach as truth, dogma or fact any of the things that you mention. What may be the personal opinions of people like Aquinas are just that, personal opinions. They do not hold the weight of authority and they do not speak for the Church. If you have some definitive authority of what went on in Heaven before the creation of the universe, then please do us all a favor and share. But as Deacon Jeff said, what you cite is not regarded as “Christian theology” but a mishmash of folklore, myths, legends and cultural influence from outside of Christian and Jewish thought. As an example, a poster here on CAF once said that Satan replied, upon his loss of Heaven, “better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven” which is, of course, from Milton’s Paradise Lost, a 17th century work! Drawing inferences from snippets here and there does not make something factual.

Timothysis, with this statement I now understand that you are unaware of of the tenets of Christianity, and how the early Church fathers have built upon those tenets. Let all readers know that what you espouse is NOT accurate and in no way can be considered Christian. It is heresy! I also seriously doubt if Deacon Jeff is a true Catholic deacon. If he was one, he would know that what I state is true and accurate!

 

[Timothysis]

Timothysis, with this statement I now understand that you are unaware of of the tenets of Christianity, and how the early Church fathers have built upon those tenets. Let all readers know that what you espouse is NOT accurate and in no way can be considered Christian. It is heresy! I also seriously doubt if Deacon Jeff is a true Catholic deacon. If he was one, he would know that what I state is true and accurate!

I see. So once again, you withhold your treasury of knowledge that dogmatically and infallibly tells us what went on in Heaven amongst God and the heavenly host before, during and after the fall of the rebel angels. And you still refuse to acknowledge that most of what is told of Satan, the Devil or Lucifer is mostly ancient legends and folklore…without any corroborating evidence. Add to that the fact that you don’t even know how to properly employ the term “heresy” and we have just another anonymous poster who pretends that he possesses quantities of knowledge that the rest of us are ignorant of. And to top it off, a deacon of the Church (yes, Deacon Jeff is a real deacon) has stated that you are in error in your conclusions and yet, you still persist in your obstinacy. So please, present to us this wonderful plethora of perfect knowledge that you possess about the War in Heaven, if for no other reason than to move this thing along.

 

[Nelka]

Catechism 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.”

 

[Timothysis]

Catechism 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.”

That doesn’t really answer the question, does it?

 

[Tom_Baum]

Catechism 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.”

So, would you say that “Catechism 2852” says that if what Jesus accomplished is the “definitive defeat” of satan then "all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death”?

 

[Tom_Baum]

That doesn’t really answer the question, does it?

It might not “really answer the question” but it sure does say that God’s “Work” is absolutely and totally all-encompassing concerning “all creation”, wouldn’t you say?

 

[Tom_Baum]

Any comment concerning, "Catechism 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.” "?

 

[Timothysis]

It might not “really answer the question” but it sure does say that God’s “Work” is absolutely and totally all-encompassing concerning “all creation”, wouldn’t you say?

That isn’t the question at hand. Norrin Radd presented a narrative of what he believes to have happened in Heaven between God and the rebel angels, complete with motives and actions. I said that what he has relayed is rooted more in myth and legend than in any discernible fact. Deacon Jeff as much said the same, stating that much of what Norrin wrote comes not from Judaism or Christianity but from Islam. The question is, can we state with any air of confidence, what the motive of the rebel angels was when they lost paradise? The Church does not and, as Deacon Jeff pointed out, there is plenty of theological speculation about it but nothing we can confidently speak of as “fact.” As far as I know, no one denies what is stated in catechism 2852.

 

[thistle]

That isn’t the question at hand. Norrin Radd presented a narrative of what he believes to have happened in Heaven between God and the rebel angels, complete with motives and actions. I said that what he has relayed is rooted more in myth and legend than in any discernible fact. Deacon Jeff as much said the same, stating that much of what Norrin wrote comes not from Judaism or Christianity but from Islam. The question is, can we state with any air of confidence, what the motive of the rebel angels was when they lost paradise? The Church does not and, as Deacon Jeff pointed out, there is plenty of theological speculation about it but nothing we can confidently speak of as “fact.” As far as I know, no one denies what is stated in catechism 2852.

 

[Tom_Baum]

That isn’t the question at hand. Norrin Radd presented a narrative of what he believes to have happened in Heaven between God and the rebel angels, complete with motives and actions. I said that what he has relayed is rooted more in myth and legend than in any discernible fact. Deacon Jeff as much said the same, stating that much of what Norrin wrote comes not from Judaism or Christianity but from Islam. The question is, can we state with any air of confidence, what the motive of the rebel angels was when they lost paradise? The Church does not and, as Deacon Jeff pointed out, there is plenty of theological speculation about it but nothing we can confidently speak of as “fact.” As far as I know, no one denies what is stated in catechism 2852.

I realize that this is not the question at hand on this thread but I do appreciate your comment concerning Catechism 2852.

There is some mention of satan and his interaction with humans in the bible, whether they are literally true or to teach a lesson I would say is ponderable, but as far as just what supposedly happened earlier seems to be pulled out of thin air.

Meltzerboy, I think, gave some interesting Jewish perspectives on satan.

And a Merry Christmas to you and to anyone else who may happen to see this post and actually to all of those that do not happen to see this post.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Wouldn’t that tie in with what Jesus said about “there is work to be done”?

Also, wouldn’t this be God giving us encouragement that what Jesus did, WILL culminate in the “definitive defeat” of satan?

I believe that Jesus asked us to be active participants in God’s Plan of Salvation, not just passive observers.

As it is written, we all have different paths and we all have different “jobs”.