who is the anti-christ?

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The Anti-Christ has come in an unholy trinity: Oprah, Obama, and Nancy Pelosi, co-equal and of one substance of pure evil 😃
OOPs 👍

They really aren’t the anti-Christ, but IMO, they’re NG.

Someone said that mentioning political figures here is against the rules. I’m not sure that that’s true. If it were, wouldn’t it be impossible to mention the pope? 😉
 
Do you know that it is a violation of forum rules to mention political figures? :tsktsk:

I’m not a fan either but this isn’t the place. In fact this entire thread has nasty tone to it. Its Lent folks.
*Wow…it’s a joke. *
 
According to the bible, muslims are the antichrist, or at the very least they do his bidding, since they claim the Jesus is not the Son of God who has come in the flesh.

The bible has warned us ahead of time that this is true.

“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” 2 John 1:7

and also:

“and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” 1 John 4:3

do muslims realize that the bible has warned us ahead of time that they would be coming with their teaching of satan?

we were warned.
Hello Flame of Christ,
Code:
 I might can help you with this, But first you will have to acknowledge that you may be wrong about YOUR INTERPRETATION.

  I have to repeat this all the time. CONTEXT is important. Understanding the Communication and who it is directed at.Most fail right out of the Gate in these things written in the scripture.
Context,
Code:
First John is an apostle to the Jew as was most the Apostles. The Gospel is being spead to the Jew First. It should also be noted that the theology of Christ is Israelite Theology not Gentile. In other words Gentiles weren't anticipating a Christ or Messiah only the Jews were. One might ask what is the Difference between the two terms?

Second and important is John is talking and refering to the Jew who either is in denial or has gone into a state of denial that Jesus is the Christ. John says he that is anti-Christ is he that denies that Jesus is the Christ, and that can only be a Jew who is denying or turning to denial after once believing. And this is what is happening at that time. See they are going out from among them. They may have believed for the wrong reason? They may have been converts thinking Christ was about to return, and when it didn't happen as they thought? They would began to slip into denial.. It could be any number of reasons for the denial but whatever it sets in..
I’m saying these in a way that explains certain things but things don’t jump to conclusions or think you know where this is going. Because I have found few that understand these things in context.
Code:
In understanding anti-Christ you have to have a complete understanding of certain things in scipture and not be confused or overlap meanings. Like 666 the mark of the beast, the whore of Babylon, The false Prophet,the abomination of desolation, the son of perdition...

Even some so called christians can be a false Prophet and even do that which is anti-christ.  The muslim believes that Jesus was Israel's messiah. So they can't be anti-Christ,  But can be heretical and schismatic and even a False Prophet and other things. 

One should also notice that the term Anti-Christ is discriptive and can be many Anti-Christ's. A following because of deception or intent. But the many are Charactorized in a single entity of Expression as well as a single type. Like we are one in Christ they are one in Anti-Christ.
 There is a whole lot more to all of this and a lot of things that need to be clarified and distinguished.
Peace and Godbless
 
Hello Flame of Christ,
Code:
 I might can help you with this, But first you will have to acknowledge that you may be wrong about YOUR INTERPRETATION.

  I have to repeat this all the time. CONTEXT is important. Understanding the Communication and who it is directed at.Most fail right out of the Gate in these things written in the scripture.
Context,
Code:
First John is an apostle to the Jew as was most the Apostles. The Gospel is being spead to the Jew First. It should also be noted that the theology of Christ is Israelite Theology not Gentile. In other words Gentiles weren't anticipating a Christ or Messiah only the Jews were. One might ask what is the Difference between the two terms?

Second and important is John is talking and refering to the Jew who either is in denial or has gone into a state of denial that Jesus is the Christ. John says he that is anti-Christ is he that denies that Jesus is the Christ, and that can only be a Jew who is denying or turning to denial after once believing. And this is what is happening at that time. See they are going out from among them. They may have believed for the wrong reason? They may have been converts thinking Christ was about to return, and when it didn't happen as they thought? They would began to slip into denial.. It could be any number of reasons for the denial but whatever it sets in..
I’m saying these in a way that explains certain things but things don’t jump to conclusions or think you know where this is going. Because I have found few that understand these things in context.
Code:
In understanding anti-Christ you have to have a complete understanding of certain things in scipture and not be confused or overlap meanings. Like 666 the mark of the beast, the whore of Babylon, The false Prophet,the abomination of desolation, the son of perdition...

Even some so called christians can be a false Prophet and even do that which is anti-christ.  The muslim believes that Jesus was Israel's messiah. So they can't be anti-Christ,  But can be heretical and schismatic and even a False Prophet and other things. 

One should also notice that the term Anti-Christ is discriptive and can be many Anti-Christ's. A following because of deception or intent. But the many are Charactorized in a single entity of Expression as well as a single type. Like we are one in Christ they are one in Anti-Christ.
 There is a whole lot more to all of this and a lot of things that need to be clarified and distinguished.
Peace and Godbless
I beleive that God wants the teachings of Islam stopped because basically if you talk with any muslim who is practicing his religion, he will try to convince you that Jesus is not the Son of God. If you want to encourage that sir, then I am not sure if you realize the ramifications of such a teaching. According to scripture, that teaching is the teaching of the Anti-Christ.
 
I think for an interesting discussion we should look at the beloved apostle John’s text in full:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. [1 John 4:1-3; NKJV]

John speaks of discerning the spirits, as there are many false prophets, and then goes on to give a trait of a false spirit: any one who “does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” is speaking in “the spirit of the Antichrist.” What does the beloved apostle mean when he says “does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh”? Both Muslims and Christians agree that Jesus had a physical body, and even atheists who believe Christ was simply a man believe that he had a physical body, ergo that he “came in the flesh.”

What St. John is referring to here, however, is the Incarnation. The Gnostics, whom John fought against personally, did not believe that Christ had a physical body as the physical world was seen as pure evil, and so many heresies said that Christ was fully spirit (which is why so many of them, such as the Docetists, denied the crucifixion, as a spirit cannot suffer). Christ was fully man and fully God - at the Incarnation, the Divine Word maintained His deity but took on human flesh. St. John focused on this argument for nearly all of the first chapter of his gospel. To deny the Incarnation was to deny the reality of Jesus, which John here condemns.

The argument John is presenting in 1 John 4:1-3, therefore, must be understood within the Christian context. It must also be understood that while St. John identifies one singular Antichrist (such as in Revelation), he also identifies plural Antichrists or “the spirit of the Antichrist” and warns that both are already present in the world (as he does here). While I am not calling every single Muslim an Antichrist (God forbid) the teachings of Mohammad and the Quran are indeed the Spirit of the Antichrist and, while they don’t deny Christ coming in the flesh, they deny Christ coming in His divine glory and the reality of the Incarnation, just as the Gnostics did. To a Christian, that is a very dangerous teaching.
 
I beleive that God wants the teachings of Islam stopped because basically if you talk with any muslim who is practicing his religion, he will try to convince you that Jesus is not the Son of God. If you want to encourage that sir, then I am not sure if you realize the ramifications of such a teaching. According to scripture, that teaching is the teaching of the Anti-Christ.
Who in the Christian world doesn’t want the teachings of Islam stopped? As the Church for centuries tried… Even trying to keep its own people from telling lies about God no matter what they believed or interpreted things to mean to themselves.

Now if you had said that Islam presents to the world a the False Prophet. In Scripture that I can believe. Every Lie is Anti-Christ because Christ is truth. But are all liars anti-christ. We’re all doomed.

What does the Church teach about Muslims and Islam. What are it’s official teachings? What has Our new Pope written about such things?

Peace and Godbless
 
I think for an interesting discussion we should look at the beloved apostle John’s text in full:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. [1 John 4:1-3; NKJV]

John speaks of discerning the spirits, as there are many false prophets, and then goes on to give a trait of a false spirit: any one who “does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” is speaking in “the spirit of the Antichrist.” What does the beloved apostle mean when he says “does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh”? Both Muslims and Christians agree that Jesus had a physical body, and even atheists who believe Christ was simply a man believe that he had a physical body, ergo that he “came in the flesh.”

What St. John is referring to here, however, is the Incarnation. The Gnostics, whom John fought against personally, did not believe that Christ had a physical body as the physical world was seen as pure evil, and so many heresies said that Christ was fully spirit (which is why so many of them, such as the Docetists, denied the crucifixion, as a spirit cannot suffer). Christ was fully man and fully God - at the Incarnation, the Divine Word maintained His deity but took on human flesh. St. John focused on this argument for nearly all of the first chapter of his gospel. To deny the Incarnation was to deny the reality of Jesus, which John here condemns.

The argument John is presenting in 1 John 4:1-3, therefore, must be understood within the Christian context. It must also be understood that while St. John identifies one singular Antichrist (such as in Revelation), he also identifies plural Antichrists or “the spirit of the Antichrist” and warns that both are already present in the world (as he does here). While I am not calling every single Muslim an Antichrist (God forbid) the teachings of Mohammad and the Quran are indeed the Spirit of the Antichrist and, while they don’t deny Christ coming in the flesh, they deny Christ coming in His divine glory and the reality of the Incarnation, just as the Gnostics did. To a Christian, that is a very dangerous teaching.
Hello BW,

You might or might not find some of these comments interesting,

John wasn’t just against agnostics. Muslims didn’t exist at that time. The Lord had made a Covenant with Ishamel that had nothing to do with the covenant he made with Isaac. I mean in the Crusades the Orthodox Chose Muslim occupation over the RCC.
The seat and the Power of the Anti-Christ has to Control the Powers of the Civilized world in the End. The Beast has to be resurrected that then was at the time of the apostles were. Which had recieved a death blow which is later healed… Which had been slain as unto death by the sword of the Lord. Anti-Christ has to sit in the Temple of God (and Deceive the Jews) in their time when a temple is rebuilt. He is a False messiah.

Christ taught what was to happen. What John and Paul often alude to is look around and see what is happening and you will see how this thing rises in the end. The seeds of its working were already being sown… But it takes time. The Saints have to first fulfill Dan 7 before those things happen. They don’t fulfil part of Dan 7 until about 460 AD.

Peace and Godbless
 
Is there another rule about politics? The Sticky above bans discussing political candidates.
 
Can a Muslim still be saved or does God give all people the chance to become a Christian or believer in Christ?

As it says the Gospel will be preached in every nation

If someone dies a muslim does that mean he would have rejected Gods Chance to make him a Believer?

As Christ says 'He who believed in me shall not perish but have everlasting life".
 
Judaism denies the deity of Jesus, too. Does that make Judaism the anti-Christ?
But the Jews don’t have this thing called taqiyya and kitman (deception by omission) which is deception to advance Islam. Deception is a big part of Islam. Isn’t that what you guys are talking about? That the devil is about lies? Islam is also about lies.
 
John wasn’t just against agnostics. Muslims didn’t exist at that time.
I didn’t say agnostics - I said Gnostics. There’s a big difference. 🙂

As for Muslims not existing at the time…that’s obvious. I wasn’t arguing they were. I was arguing that John spoke out against a certain type of mindset that would condemn Islam as much as the Gnostics.
The Lord had made a Covenant with Ishamel that had nothing to do with the covenant he made with Isaac.
Please quote me where He did. God clearly says that His covenant is not with Isaac, but with Ishmael, and from this covenant came Christ. Muslims claim Mohammad to be part of this same covenant, even though the account in Genesis says otherwise.

Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” [Gen 17:19-21; NKJV]

God blesses Ishmael out of love and compassion for his circumstances, but He quite clearly says that the only one receiving a covenant - the covenant of God, which is everlasting - is Isaac, not Ishmael.
 
I think for an interesting discussion we should look at the beloved apostle John’s text in full:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. [1 John 4:1-3; NKJV]
What a great post. 👍 Thanks for that Byzantine_Wolf. The words of John above have incredible implications which I have really never considered. Would not all non-Christian religions (and even a few who call themselves Christian) fall into the category of the spirit of the Antichrist? That is, any who deny the Incarnation. That would include approximately 75% of the world’s population. I’m not quite sure why everyone is focused almost solely on Islam, it is only one of the many religions that deny the Incarnation.

Judaism would hold a different status I would think as Christianity is basically the fullfillment of Judaism. But what about Judaism subsequent to the beginning of Christianity. Do they not deny the Incarnation also? At the same time I cannot bring myself to make the statement that Judaism is the spirit of the Antichrist, especially since Jesus was a Jew. 🤷

Keep in mind, I am only speaking of the doctrines and theology of these religions, not the culpability of the followers of those religions. I’ll leave that job to God.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. John’s words give us a lot to consider.
 
What a great post. t:thumbsup: Thanks for that Byzantine_Wolf. The words of John above have incredible implications which I have really never considered. Would not all non-Christian religions (and even a few who call themselves Christian) fall into the category of the spirit of the Antichrist. That is, any who deny the Incarnation. That would include approximately 75% of the world’s population. I’m not quite sure why everyone is focused almost solely on Islam, it is only one of the many religions that deny the Incarnation.
Unfortunately, yes. When Christ says He is the Truth, the Life and the Way, and that he who denies Him will be denied before the Father, that unfortunately covers most groups that call themselves religions. I don’t know why some people choose to pick on Islam, as really it is but a blade of grass of false beliefs that grow out of the tarnished soil of a fallen world. It could very well be the amount of exposure that Islam gives itself and most Muslims supply, but either way you are right in saying that Islam is not solely guilty of this.
Judaism would hold a different status I would think as Christianity is basically the fullfillment of Judaism. But what about Judaism subsequent to the beginning of Christianity. Do they not deny the Incarnation also? At the same time I cannot bring myself to make the statement that Judaism is the spirit of the Antichrist, especially since Jesus was a Jew. 🤷
Ah yes, the “Jesus was a Jew” argument. Of course, Woody Allen is a Jew too. 😛 While Christ, during His earthly life, existed in the traditions and lifestyle of a 1st century Palestinian Jew, He was also the Lord and God Incarnate, and the Gate for the Sheep through whom they could find salvation. To say He was a Jew forgets the larger part of His Person.

Unfortunately, yes, a Jewish belief that denies the deity of Christ would fall into that category, and as most of Judaism does (save for Messianic Judaism, although some of those groups within that movement are pretty darn heretical!) that denial of Christ’s Incarnation and His unity with the Father would also be the Spirit of the Antichrist.
 
And this is bigotry?

1 John 2:22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Such a man is the Antichrist—he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus).

And we ALL know that islam denies the deity of Jesus.

So, are you really a catholic?
.
Of course I’m Catholic. Three quarters of the world is not Catholic and denies Christ. That doesn’t make me superior to them. Humility is the mark of Christ. And your tone is of bigotry.
 
Of course I’m Catholic. Three quarters of the world is not Catholic and denies Christ. That doesn’t make me superior to them. Humility is the mark of Christ. And your tone is of bigotry.
If you had the mark of Christ you wouldn’t be standing against what is quoted in 1 John 2:22.

And you obviously don’t understand what you yourself just said. Two thirds of the world denies Christ because they are not catholic??? You need to be specific here. Two thirds of the world comprises of hindhus, buddhists, sikh, etc etc etc…Many of these people don’t even know who is Jesus Christ, nor do they know enough to want to consciously reject the deity of Christ.

The verse in 1 John 2:22 clearly refers to those with a religious orientation that seeks to reject the deity of Jesus. And that is Islam.

PS. You don’t judge bigotry by tone. If it were so, one would have to call the Queen a bigot. As adults (assuming you are one), we need to THINK before we speak, not conveniently claim to have cloaked ourselves in humility when put in a spot.
 
Do you know that it is a violation of forum rules to mention political figures? :tsktsk:

I’m not a fan either but this isn’t the place. In fact this entire thread has nasty tone to it. Its Lent folks.
Oh Please! Lighten up my friend! It was a joke. Bill Clinton, George Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Ronald Reagan…oooooooooooh!
 
If you had the mark of Christ you wouldn’t be standing against what is quoted in 1 John 2:22.

And you obviously don’t understand what you yourself just said. Two thirds of the world denies Christ because they are not catholic??? You need to be specific here. Two thirds of the world comprises of hindhus, buddhists, sikh, etc etc etc…Many of these people don’t even know who is Jesus Christ, nor do they know enough to want to consciously reject the deity of Christ.

The verse in 1 John 2:22 clearly refers to those with a religious orientation that seeks to reject the deity of Jesus. And that is Islam.

PS. You don’t judge bigotry by tone. If it were so, one would have to call the Queen a bigot. As adults (assuming you are one), we need to THINK before we speak, not conveniently claim to have cloaked ourselves in humility when put in a spot.
Ummmm I think more than just Muslims don’t accept Jesus as a diety… and knowing so.
 
If you had the mark of Christ you wouldn’t be standing against what is quoted in 1 John 2:22.

And you obviously don’t understand what you yourself just said. Two thirds of the world denies Christ because they are not catholic??? You need to be specific here. Two thirds of the world comprises of hindhus, buddhists, sikh, etc etc etc…Many of these people don’t even know who is Jesus Christ, nor do they know enough to want to consciously reject the deity of Christ.

The verse in 1 John 2:22 clearly refers to those with a religious orientation that seeks to reject the deity of Jesus. And that is Islam.

PS. You don’t judge bigotry by tone. If it were so, one would have to call the Queen a bigot. As adults (assuming you are one), we need to THINK before we speak, not conveniently claim to have cloaked ourselves in humility when put in a spot.
Let God be the judge. Not you. I have no use for haters.
 
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