Who is the Prophet Mohammed?

[KP3243]

The politicians, particularly the so-called “conservatives”, who want both the “evangelical” Christian vote and the Jewish vote talk about a Judaeo Christian “tradition”. In any case, Islam apparently declares Jesus to be a “prophet” on a par with Mohammed.

You are Catholic, how do you not see the Judaeo Christian tradition history of the people of this country?

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

I am disturbed by the posts that call Muhammed a “false prophet.” I would remind the forum of these quotations: “…any one who … calls him (his brother) ‘Renegade’ (heretic) …will answer for it in hell fire.” Matthew 5:22. And: "“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.” And: “…let anyone speak against the Holy Spirit and he will not be forgiven…” I would advise tolerance and respect rather than condemnation and hatred.
I see that many criticize the militancy of Islam. I noted in my previous post that I believe that Muhammed was the “Moses” of the Ishmalites. Moses, in addition to being the Law giver, was a military general. His successor, Joshua, led campaigns that murdered every woman, child, and animal in defeated cities. Certainly the militancy of Islam is much softer than the militancy of Moses’s Israelites. Furthermore, the Messiah of Islam, Baha’Ullah, has called for a world government and an end to warfare.

 

[Reuben_J]

I am disturbed by the posts that call Muhammed a “false prophet.” I would remind the forum of these quotations: “…any one who … calls him (his brother) ‘Renegade’ (heretic) …will answer for it in hell fire.” Matthew 5:22. And: "“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.” And: “…let anyone speak against the Holy Spirit and he will not be forgiven…” I would advise tolerance and respect rather than condemnation and hatred.
I see that many criticize the militancy of Islam. I noted in my previous post that I believe that Muhammed was the “Moses” of the Ishmalites. Moses, in addition to being the Law giver, was a military general. His successor, Joshua, led campaigns that murdered every woman, child, and animal in defeated cities. Certainly the militancy of Islam is much softer than the militancy of Moses’s Israelites. Furthermore, the Messiah of Islam, Baha’Ullah, has called for a world government and an end to warfare.

**Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! (Gal 1:7-9)
**

My friend, you are entitled to your belief and nobody will take that away from you. But if you are speaking to Christians in this Forum, then you are using the wrong approach. No Christians will believe that Mohammad is a true prophet. We do not have any spiritual attachment to Islam or to him and besides he preached a different gospel than the one that we are taught with. He preached that Jesus Christ is not crucified and that is a different gospel than what we have and therefore according to our belief, he is a false prophet. Our scripture uses stronger word for people like him as you can read in Gal 1:9.

One cannot be a Christian and yet believe in Mohammad. Therefore if we do not believe in him and he is preaching a different message than us, then therefore to us he is not a true prophet. In fact that is to put it mildly because for us God’s revelation has stopped after Jesus Christ. There is no new revelation because Jesus has fulfilled all the promises that had been made by all the ancient prophets.

I am afraid you are using the verse (Mt 5:22) wrongly as it is irrelevant in the case of Mohammad. One either believes in his teaching or one does not. Christians take the latter.

 

[sophion]

There are numerous errors in the Koran. I believe it says Mary,

in the Koran Mary is the third person of the Trinity.

 

[DeSanto]

No, we should not. However, it is always unfair to blame all people in a group for the actions of a considerably smaller group within.

I believe I did specify “Islamic groups”. Nowhere did I insinuate “all Muslims” when speaking of the persecution of Christians and their churches around the world. I simply inquired that because mohammad apparently demanded this monastery to be protected does not mean that goes for all Christians and their churches, obviously. I suppose just that particular monastery is off limits.

So, in a nutshell you are saying, Christians and Jews were already worshiping the one true God so they had no need for this monitheistic revelation. Ok, so then you say…some did not accept their teachings so God sent a new teaching made specifically for them so they could accept it. But, Mohammad did not get it right and screwed it all up?

So, what you are implying 1) is that God made a mistake in choosing mohammad for his prophet. and 2) there are two different truths to satisfy both groups.

1. God doesnt make mistakes, how could a true prophet of God fail unless it was Gods intent for him to fail?
   2)There can only be one truth.

 

[504Katrin]

Your guess is as good as mine, bro.

Now, maybe next story. The Isra or “Night Journey” where Mohammad was carried by a mythological horse, Al-Buraq, from Mecca to Jerusalem and back. That was in the Quran.

And there goes Jerusalem as a given holy citadel for Islam of which later they claim this as their divine right. Their argument - Mohammad could not have known there exist Jerusalem at that time from his base in the desert of Arabia, and therefore this surely must be from Allah.

I have nothing against their belief in the night dream and everything that comes with it. I feel though that that huge mosque, and built on the temple mount out of all places, is a little bit over the top. I think that in order to commemorate said night dream, a landmark with an inscription on it might have done nicely.

 

[Reuben_J]

I have nothing against their belief in the night dream and everything that comes with it. I feel though that that huge mosque, and built on the temple mount out of all places, is a little bit over the top. I think that in order to commemorate said night dream, a landmark with an inscription on it might have done nicely.

Exactly. And a caution, from here the discussion maybe is not for anyone with a light stomach or depends on how one sees it. Belief aside and I concur, because anyone is entitled for their own. Looking at it in retrospective especially in the expansion of Islamic empire (and the spread of Islam as a result), one cannot help but thought that Mohammad already had a master plan even before he died. Some of it is discussed in the other thread, how in the aftermath of Mohammad’s death that the succession plan took into a huge political dimension and infighting. Thus some of the major protagonists – Ali, Aisha, et al, were actively fighting for political power for the right of administrating Islam. So politic is a huge part of Mohammad’s Islam but then let say that it is just my personal opinion here.

Anybody can see what you say except perhaps for Mohammad and the subsequent sultans about the status of Jerusalem. Their claim for it as a third holy place for Islam certainly is a big justification for the big mosque built on the site of the old Jewish temple and to consider the area as Islam’s rightful own. I would say Islam’s holy land should be the areas where Mohammad lived and ministered which is roughly in the present day around Mecca and Medina but to include Jerusalem in that category (though to be fair, a third holy city) and to accord it occupational right is obviously for political reason.

In any case, Muslims have to be left with this legacy today and use it as a justification for their claim of Jerusalem. A claim seemingly based on spiritual belief but an ambitious political design nevertheless.

 

[RyanBlack]

I would say Islam’s holy land should be the areas where Mohammad lived and ministered which is roughly in the present day around Mecca and Medina but to include Jerusalem in that category (though to be fair, a third holy city) and to accord it occupational right is obviously for political reason.

As a Christian, I couldn’t care less what non-Christians think concerning which land should be holy for Christians. It’s really no concern of theirs to tell us what is or is not holy to us. Likewess, we have no business telling Muslims what should or should not be their holy sites. Furthermore, Muslims do in fact have religious reasons for considering Jerusalem to be a holy city. Now, as to who actually should be sovereign over the city of Jerusalem, who should control the Temple Mount, etc., that is a different–although not unrelated–matter.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Quote: Reuben J: “No Christians will believe that Mohammed is a true prophet.”
Wow! That’s quite a statement. You have the authority to speak for all Christians? Or else you are the one to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t? I would remind you of Matthew 7:19. “Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.” According to the Vatican Statistics Yearbook(2008) the number of Muslims in the world now exceeds the number of Catholics. Do you really expect me to believe that YHWH allows one and a half billion humans to follow the teachings of a false prophet?
In Islam there are those who choose to follow the path of violence, but there also have been many Saints. Can we say that Catholicism has been much different? Our Great Teacher, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Yosef, was himself put to death on a false charge of heresey. I would think that would be a lesson to His followers not to be so quick to accuse others of that offence.
Rueben: You quote St.Paul and St John. Do you put their opinions above the direct teachings of Rabbi Yehoshua? I do not.
Luke: 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord Lord’ and not do what I say?”

 

[CutlerB]

Quote: Reuben J: “No Christians will believe that Mohammed is a true prophet.”
Wow! That’s quite a statement. You have the authority to speak for all Christians? Or else you are the one to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t? I would remind you of Matthew 7:19. “Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.” According to the Vatican Statistics Yearbook(2008) the number of Muslims in the world now exceeds the number of Catholics. Do you really expect me to believe that YHWH allows one and a half billion humans to follow the teachings of a false prophet?
In Islam there are those who choose to follow the path of violence, but there also have been many Saints. Can we say that Catholicism has been much different? Our Great Teacher, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Yosef, was himself put to death on a false charge of heresey. I would think that would be a lesson to His followers not to be so quick to accuse others of that offence.
Rueben: You quote St.Paul and St John. Do you put their opinions above the direct teachings of Rabbi Yehoshua? I do not.
Luke: 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord Lord’ and not do what I say?”

This is absurd. What Reuben meant was that no committed Christian, who knows about his beliefs, will accept Mohammed as a true prophet. Simply because it isn’t compatible.

Second: Your reasoning breaks down completely, because of this: If you are suggesting that Islam is the true religion because God wouldn’t allow so many people to follow false religion, then by definition Islam is false. Because then FIVE BILLION people would be following false religion from that point. How reasonable is that?

Edit: I made a bit of a mistake there, but still. As the Church regards certain denominations as Christian, we can count those numbers in. And then we arrive at about 2 billion Christians. Same point.

Edit 2: Some short circuit in my brain there If you are suggesting that God does not allow a larger number of people to follow a false teaching, then it still doesn’t make sense. Say Islam has 1.5 Billion adherents and there are 1.2 Billion Catholics in the world. Then why would God allow even such a number? Where is the limit that God tolerates? Add all the other denominations and see how illogical that statement is, apart from the point down below.

If you want to go and rip Bible verses out of context, here goes another one: “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” So that would suggest that of the two religions in question here, Catholicism is correct, don’t you think? Honestly, the truth of something does not depend on the number of followers.

 

[Reuben_J]

Quote: Reuben J: “No Christians will believe that Mohammed is a true prophet.”
Wow! That’s quite a statement. You have the authority to speak for all Christians? Or else you are the one to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t? I would remind you of Matthew 7:19. “Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire.” According to the Vatican Statistics Yearbook(2008) the number of Muslims in the world now exceeds the number of Catholics. Do you really expect me to believe that YHWH allows one and a half billion humans to follow the teachings of a false prophet?
In Islam there are those who choose to follow the path of violence, but there also have been many Saints. Can we say that Catholicism has been much different? Our Great Teacher, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Yosef, was himself put to death on a false charge of heresey. I would think that would be a lesson to His followers not to be so quick to accuse others of that offence.
Rueben: You quote St.Paul and St John. Do you put their opinions above the direct teachings of Rabbi Yehoshua? I do not.
Luke: 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord Lord’ and not do what I say?”

I would let this pass. And thanks anyway for trying.

@ CutlerB. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[504Katrin]

Because then FIVE BILLION people would be following false religion from that point. How reasonable is that?

If it ain’t reasonable how reasonable would it be to say that a thousand, or a million if you want, people follow a false religion? Was their religion false when Islam spread, and there were only a few people following this religion? It was the same religion back then as it is today.

Sorrry you both (you and Reuben) had to go through a relatively rough post earlier.
I’m just playing with our thoughts

 

[dzheremi]

For the Orthodox Christian view of Muhammad, you can read ancient apologetics about the Islamic religion, such as John of Damascus’ 8th century Heresies in Epitome or Dionysius Bar Salibi’s 12th century “A Response to the Arabs” (I can’t find the text online, but you can look for it in a university library via interlibrary loan; it’s worth it).

They are, shall we say, not favorable toward Muhammad or Islam.

 

[504Katrin]

Exactly. Now, the next question would be, how about the Jews?

 

[johnnyjones]

Who is the Prophet Mohammed to Christians and Jews? Is he mentioned in Sacred Scripture or in any Jewish writings? If so, where?

A false prophet not mentioned in sacred scripture.

 

[MartinJordan]

A false prophet not mentioned in sacred scripture.

Can you also agree that this means that he is not mentioned in scripture specifically by name however it is clear false prophets who claim they send proclaimations from God?

MJ

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Who is the Prophet Mohammed?
Genesis 21: Abraham sends Ishmael away but YHWH promises to “…make him into a great nation.” Ishmael’s decendants live “…east of Egypt.” Subsequently, Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, receives both the blessing and birthright. His decendants become the 12 tribes of Israel, the “chosen people.” In about 1300 BCE YHWH sends Moses to give them His Law, while the other nations fathered by Abraham are not so favored. But, 2000 years after Moses, YHWH sends Mohammed to give Abraham’s other nations the “crumbs that have fallen from the table.” So Islam was founded, a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.
My opinion: Mohammed is the “Moses” that YHWH sent to the Arab nations in order that they might also receive His Law. Was Mohammed a real prophet? Of course, but perhaps not of the same stature as Moses. Interestingly, about 2000 years after the appearance of the Jewish Messiah, Islam receives its own expected (and rejected) Messiah, Baha’Ullah. And while he may not be of the same stature as the great Rabbi Yehoshua ben Yosef, his message is nonetheless of great importance to all peoples: “The worship of freedom leads to sedition, the only true freedom is obedience to YHWH’s Laws.” “National patriotism must give way to international brotherhood.”

Mohammed was the Moses of the Ishmalites, meaning the Arabs.

 

[arabic_catholic]

the Islamic Prophet Muhammad is a liar , that is , if we take the classical islamic stories seriously.

I just discover recently (plus the 10s of discoveries about the stolen stories from fabrication sources which are found in islam) that the story of his Isra and Mi’raj (travel to heaven ) and passing the seven heavens was stolen from 2nd Enoch (a fabrication book from the 1st century) which describe a similar story !

I think we need to pay deep attention to the Origins of Islam , for many Scholars on islam (even the one’s who are friend with it like Fred Donner ) accept that it was created by Abdul malik bin Marwan in 690s , or at least he put the foundation of it as a separate religion

I even read in " Inheritance of Rome" by Oxford Professor chris wickham where he claim that some Caliphs were interested in Basilica of St. Sergius. and he too Admit that the historicity of islam start to appear only in 690s.

therefore we should distinguish between Islam as a religion which is created maybe 70 to a 100 year after the death of a person who supposedly called muhammad (he have another name which is getham (قثم) mentioned by some islamic sources and muhammad might be a title a good study was done by arab historian Hichem Djaït (PHD from Paris University in Islamic studies) on this topic ) with it’s own book , own agenda , own stories from what was there which people (christian and jews) didn’t recognize as a new faith with a new creed. . the pre-abdulmalik faith(or heresy).

an interesting study done by Christopher Luxenburg on the Dome of the Rock inscription might be interesting for anyone here.

 

[johnnyjones]

I understand your statement that Jews in a similar way do not have the fullness of the faith like Islam as it relates to Christianity. The difference of course with Judaism is that we as Christians share the same sacred scripture (the OT). If we look at the OT through Christian eyes Jesus is clearly evident in multiple passages.

However with Islam, they operate under a different book (The Quaran) which I would maintain, shows an inconsistent presentation of God in comparison to the Torah and NT. From our vantage point we could say that the Jews do not accept messiah Jesus based on their wrong readings of their own texts, while Islams theology no matter how it is read contradicts Christianity to the point where the words can never be made to fit into prophesy.

 

[Mickey]

“I have gone to your Mecca and have examined all of your faith, and I have understood that everything about it is false and abominable.”
(The Martyr, St Alexander the dervish +1794)