Who is totally against abortion,full stop?

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My understanding is that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. Women who have had abortions can be forgiven. Appreciate a more well versed Catholic weighing in here. I am certainly totally against abortion.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
My understanding is that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. Women who have had abortions can be forgiven.
You are correct. However, abortion also leads to automatic excommunication. The first time, as I understand it, forgiveness is a matter of confession and intent not to have another abortion. After that though, if a second one is had, I think that de-excommunicating one’s self is more difficult (which leads me to believe that forgiveness is more difficult as well). It can still be forgiven, but is more involved and difficult from what I understand. There was a fairly recent thread on abortion, though I can’t find it. I don’t exactly know the procedure for that.

Eamon
 
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turboEDvo:
You are correct. However, abortion also leads to automatic excommunication. The first time, as I understand it, forgiveness is a matter of confession and intent not to have another abortion. After that though, if a second one is had, I think that de-excommunicating one’s self is more difficult (which leads me to believe that forgiveness is more difficult as well). It can still be forgiven, but is more involved and difficult from what I understand. There was a fairly recent thread on abortion, though I can’t find it. I don’t exactly know the procedure for that.

Eamon
THank you for the clarification. I know there are organizations like Project Rachel that help women deal with the trauma of abortion. I really believe many women ‘know not what they do.’ Certainly someone in full knowledge who has repeated abortions (trust me I’ve met them) is going to have a hard time ‘de-excommunicating’ themselves.

Lisa N
 
I’m totally against abortion, I can’t think of a circumstane where it would be thinkable for me. I am also aware that in real life, things are rarely that simple.

I don’t see it ‘the worst sin there is’ - I really don’t think that sort of idea is helpull.
 
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turboEDvo:
Abortion is 100% wrong if you ask me. Now, I figure that the worst sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, since that is unforgivable (and thus the worst, since all other sins are forgivable). But, I do not mean to downplay the severity of abortions by any means.

Eamon
You are absolutely right. That is why the categories given in the poll are insufficient.
 
What do we mean by “worst?”

Killing a human being is surely wrong. Dehumanizing a whole category of human beings (Jews or unborn children) so they can be killed is surely wrong.

Millions of murders are “more wrong” than a single murder – but both the Holocaust and abortion have produced millions of murders.
 
Lisa N said:
‘de-excommunicating’

Now, if there is a term for ‘de-excommunication,’ I would love to know what it is. I just made that one up (at least I think I did) to make my point 😛

Eamon
 
I am a Protestant who is totally against abortion. :eek: Yep, my kind are few.

I would sooner die than have one myself, but I think the law should allow them only in cases where the mother is going to die if she doesn’t have one (such cases are EXTREMELY rare, but do occasionally happen) and the child cannot be removed and live. Late-term abortions are never ever justified.
 
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Christian4life:
I am a Protestant who is totally against abortion. :eek: Yep, my kind are few.

I would sooner die than have one myself, but I think the law should allow them only in cases where the mother is going to die if she doesn’t have one (such cases are EXTREMELY rare, but do occasionally happen) and the child cannot be removed and live. Late-term abortions are never ever justified.
What denomination? I had to flee the Protestant church due to their lax policy regarding human life issues. I do understand some (conservative) Protestant denominations are opposed to abortion.

Lisa N
 
Abortion is always wrong. In case of mother’s life being in danger, there are ways of saving her, even if this effectively means sacrificing the foetus, without procuring abortion.
 
Some funny satire to make a point:

Fetuses are NOT babies!

My sister has lost her mind. Somehow, she let herself become convinced by her right-wing fascist husband that a woman’s job is to marry and reproduce, and now she’s hopelessly pregnant. But what annoys me far more than the fact that she’s thrown away her career and spat in the face of women’s lib by refusing to have an abortion, is her insistance on referring to the lifeless lump of good in her belly as “The Baby”.

The Baby is due in February!” she chirps.
“I can feel The Baby kick!” she giggles.
“We’re naming The Baby after Jim’s father!” she sings.

Women’s rights activists have fought valiantly for years to dehumanize the unborn, and here’s ol’ sis, merrily throwing it all right back to the stone ages. I try to tell her, “Sis, it’s not a Baby…it’s a FETUS. It more closely resembles a shaved HAMSTER than a human being, and you’re only fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Abort it immediately, before it can crawl out and vote Republican.”

But she won’t listen. In fact, she laughs at me.

“Okay, bro…how many people should I invite to the FETUS shower? That reminds me…I need to get to the Fetus Store and by some Fetus clothing for the Fetus! Hahahahahaa!”

When will George Bush and his right-wing bible-thumping cronies cease their relentless brainwashing of our youth?
 
Hey ruzz, we read these form post to quick to understand satire. You almost gave me a heart attack! Next time mark the word satire in bold please!
 
It is wrong under any circumstance. I did not always feel that way. I was pro-choice for a long time, and I speak from the perspective of a person who has survived two of the controversial situations where an unwanted pregnancy could have occured and I say now that nothing justifies murder. I cannot think of anything worse. Playing God with human lives to me is equal to what the devil did and look what that got him. Also If I was to die to possibly save my childs life I would gladly do it and would only hope that I would die in a state of grace.
 
I like this quote…

If it’s not a baby, you’re not pregnant…
–Somebody wittier than me…
 
I remember seeing Bishop Sheen in a TV interview. He said that the worst sin is to reject God on your deathbed. Because there is no way you can be forgiven for that.
The Bible says that the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So I can’t say that abortion is the worst sin. Especially since I believe that many women (esp young girls) really believe all the propaganda the proaborts put out.
It is certainly a horrible thing. So was starving Terri Schiavo. So was the Holocaust…
All these spring from the same thing: rejection of God & the laws of God. So, I didn’t vote. Nevertheless, abortion is undoubtedly one of the most egregious results of the worst sin. It is forgivable, though.
God bless.
 
I am totally against abortion. Even the women who were used to push the Roe v. Wade decision forward are against abortion. Doesn’t anyone using the arguments of rape and the dangers of illegal abortion ever notice that the two women - “Roe” and “Doe” have hidden from the Pro-Abortion movement? If abortion is so great and is liberating to women, why aren’t Roe and Doe out there endorsing abortion? For anyone who hasn’t already read this interview of “Roe” and “Doe” check out the link below. It will make your hair stand on end:

roevwade.org/interview.html
 
I’m against abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, etc…110%!

Ask me a tough question and I’ll give you my answer why!
 
Except for purely medical reasons, I believe abortion is morally wrong. However, I am pro-choice, because I don’t think civil law should be in the business of making moral decisions. There are just some times when the decision has to be left to the individual.

I am not, however, opposed to the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion, since they are in the morality business.
 
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AdsoOfFunkstown:
Except for purely medical reasons, I believe abortion is morally wrong. However, I am pro-choice, because I don’t think civil law should be in the business of making moral decisions. There are just some times when the decision has to be left to the individual.

I am not, however, opposed to the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion, since they are in the morality business.
Adso Of Funkstown:

Did you notice that NOT A SINGLE Women’s Group spoke out on behalf of TERRI SCHIAVO while her BIGAMIST Husband was successfully tossing her away LIKE SOME USED UP RAG?? Did you notice that they all went the OTHER WAY as fast their feet and airline ticklets could carry them?? Did you ever wonder, “WHY?”?

It’s because they knew that the MORAL DECISIONS made in the Schiavo case were all the same as are made in cases of ABORTIONS! They saw that LINK all too well! Terri was considered a LUMP OF TISSUE that HAD NO RIGHTS, just as Pre-born babies are (to them) LUMPS OF TISSUE that HAVE NO RIGHTS!

Terri was NEVER REPRESENTED BY COUNCIL - Pre-Born Babies AREN’T EITHER.

Terri’s rights weren’t considered ouside the context of MICHAEL’S Statements - The Rights of Pre-borns aren’t considered EITHER.

Adso, I get uncomfortable with the idea of the government of “Legislating MORALITY”. but, It’s the JOB of the government to protect the RIGHTS of the INNOCENT WEAK against the desires of the STRONG! So, PROTECTING the lives of the unborn is NOT LEGISLATING MORALITY - It’s fulfilling one of the 3 reasons (According to the Constitution) that governments are instituted.

You must agree with that, UNLESS YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT PRE-BORN BABIES ARE HUMAN PERSONS DESERVING OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS! I’m placing that reasoning on paper, because NOT only is that the reasoning in ROE V. WADE, but it’s also the reasoning in Dred Scott v. Sanford (The Dred Scott Decision that led to the CIVIL WAR)!

If you agree that Pre-born babies are Human Persons deserving of legal protections, go here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=597164#post597164

And follow the directions in these posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=603302&postcount=10

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=613154&postcount=20

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=632350&postcount=40

If you don’t, Please tell me what the issue is, and I’ll try to reason with you.

And, Would you care to List and explain the MEDICAL reasons which would allow one human being to kill another? Even if the Human being in question happens to be resident within the Uterus of the other human being in question at the time in question?

Blessings and Peace, Michael
 
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AdsoOfFunkstown:
Except for purely medical reasons, I believe abortion is morally wrong. However, I am pro-choice, because I don’t think civil law should be in the business of making moral decisions. There are just some times when the decision has to be left to the individual.

I am not, however, opposed to the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion, since they are in the morality business.
Ah, but you see I do not feel that Church/State separation has been defined decently except by Benedict XVI who said that the Church is the conscience of the State. What are people thinking? That the Church and State are tossed into the melee of culture in competition so that the strongest may win? That would mean that the law of force would win over the force of law.

No, the Church and the State are married and always have been from time immemorial even before the Church was called ‘the Church,’ way back when home was a tribe and wisdom was sought from the medicine man or woman. It is wisdom that is the gift that goes on giving. Force is a temporal whimsy with long-term – and counterproductive consequences.

Those arguing for a secular state are not arguing against faith, they are arguing for the supremacy of their own faith which is a faith in the law of force, the bully gang, the individual run amok. The last thing such a person can conceive of or would want is a faith tempered in the fire of millennia of struggle, faith, martyrdom, sainthood, and…well…other people. That kind of faith demands accountability and purpose in an age when arrogance and forgetfulness are de rigeur.

While it seems reasonable that the State should have some autonomy in deciding what is ‘the good,’ there are some things which cannot be decided on proportional merits. Abortion, for example: arguments are that it is a question of the lesser of two evils. That is a proportional argument.

The ‘harm’ to the mother of carrying an unborn infant to term is not absolute, it changes with time, it is a statistical phenomenon, and it can in many cases be considered temporary and redeemable. After all, the mother gets to keep her life. Time is on her side.

The ‘harm’ to the unborn infant, on the other hand, is absolute, permanent, and irredeemable. The infant does not get to keep his or her life and the question of time being on the infant’s side is moot because the infant has no time. Therefore the proportional argument does not apply in cases of abortion. To say that the certain and permanent harm to the infant is balanced against the possible and temporary harm to the mother is sheer lunacy.

In any case, prochoice doesn’t even have a case. Roe vs Wade was just plain badly drafted law. This case could never establish the point in time where ‘personhood’ commences, yet all of its arguments violate the ‘person’ of the unborn infant and therefore violate the Constitution of the United States. Roe vs Wade is an evasion which begets an army of evasions in its wade.

Prochoice is no choice. Why? Because if it were a choice then all the cards would be on the table each time a woman confronts the question of whether or not to have an abortion. The fact is that critical information is withheld from her at a time when she is vulnerable and sorely in need of all the information.

Studies have shown that the majority of pregnant women who are allowed to see a sonogram of their unborn infants choose to carry the infant to term. Why? Because it becomes obvious that the unborn infant is not a blob of tissue but a human ‘person’ with a life of his or her own and therefore has an absolute right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Studies have also shown that the majority of pregnant women who are offered support through their pregnancies choose to carry their infants to term. Why? Because issues of community, economics, health and so on are weighed proportionately against the overwhelming weight of human neighbourliness and compassion.

Teaching women that their actions can have no consequences is iniquitous in the extreme. There are heavy consequences to the emotional and physical health of most women who have abortions – and these consequences last for decades often ending fatally in suicide or breast cancer.
 
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