Who killed Jesus and why?

[Henning]

Maybe someone else here can comment, but I’ve never read anything that even remotely refers to Christ’s crucifixion as punishment or the wrath of God.

**Most of that passage is speaking of others’ treatment of Christ and what He would have to endure from the hands of man, not God. **

And in quating Christ’s crucifixion to the wrath of God you are completely missing the whole reason for Christ’s giving His life for you.

---

Can you tell us if you have had influence in the interpretation you are relating here? For example, obviously as Catholics we rely on the Catechism and other Deposits of Faith to guide us. Who or what is guiding you in your interpretation of The Passion?

I don’t know how pervasive ‘penal substitution’ is within the various protestant denominations but it’s a doctrine rejected by CC. Here’s a bit from Wikipedia on ‘Penal Substitution’.

“**Penal substitution **is a theory of the atonement within Christian theology, especially associated with the Reformed tradition. It argues that Christ, by his own sacrificial choice, was punished (penalised) in the place of sinners (substitution), thus satisfying the demands of justice so God can justly forgive the sins. It is thus a specific understanding of substitutionary atonement, where the substitutionary nature of Jesus’ death is understood in the sense of a substitutionary punishment”

"Broadly speaking, Martin Luther followed Anselm, thus remaining mainly in the “Latin” model identified by Gustaf Aulén. However, he held that Christ’s atoning work encompassed both his active and passive obedience to the law: as the perfectly innocent God-man, he fulfilled the law perfectly during his life AND he, in his death on the cross, bore the eternal punishment that all men deserved for their breaking the law. Unlike Anselm, Luther thus combines both satisfaction and punishment

 

[Henning]

Argument against penal substitution:

Bible says
“For the wages of sin is death” Ro 6:23

Bible does **not **say
“The wages of sin is punishment and wrath from God”

Jesus bore our sins.
The wages of bearing these sins was his death.
The wages of these sins was **not ** the bearing of the angry punishing wrath of the Father.

In the OT the Shekinah glory didn’t erupt on the atonement sacrifice with punishing wrath. The sacrifice was only killed, its blood brought into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled on the mercy seat.

 

[fbl9]

Argument against penal substitution:

Bible says
“For the wages of sin is death” Ro 6:23

Bible does **not **say
“The wages of sin is punishment and wrath from God”

Jesus bore our sins.
The wages of bearing these sins was his death.
The wages of these sins was **not ** the bearing of the angry punishing wrath of the Father.

In the OT the Shekinah glory didn’t erupt on the atonement sacrifice with punishing wrath. The sacrifice was only killed, its blood brought into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled on the mercy seat.

thank you i was trying to say this early on but couldn’t get the words together,i guess

 

[swariffin]

Most probably there is another hadith that says , Jesus (p) will be buried beside Prophet Muhammed (p).

In India?

 

[underdog]

If I wanted to attack Christianity as being false, I would attack the death, burial and ressureciton of the historic person of Jesus Christ. Was Jesus raised from the dead to prove who He claimed to be, the Savior of the World and the only way to God?

 

[happilycatholic]

If I wanted to attack Christianity as being false, I would attack the death, burial and ressureciton of the historic person of Jesus Christ. Was Jesus raised from the dead to prove who He claimed to be, the Savior of the World and the only way to God?

Did someone say you were attacking Christianity?

 

[happilycatholic]

If I wanted to attack Christianity as being false, I would attack the death, burial and ressureciton of the historic person of Jesus Christ. Was Jesus raised from the dead to prove who He claimed to be, the Savior of the World and the only way to God?

You never answered this question:

---

Can you tell us if you have had influence in the interpretation you are relating here? For example, obviously as Catholics we rely on the Catechism and other Deposits of Faith to guide us. Who or what is guiding you in your interpretation of The Passion?