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Righteousone
Guest
Everyone here needs to read the Gospel of St. John. He tells you over and over again, as I have stated in my thread “Who killed Jesus”.
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EB4304
Guest
We all did. Every sinner is responsible for the death of Jesus. When Christians say He died for the sins of mankind, that means our sins put Him on the cross. But, at the same time, it was a death He freely chose and freely accepted (cf John 10:18 - “No man takes my life from me; but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it again”). It was His choice - He wanted to save the world and redeem humanity through His death.
That is the traditional 2,000 year interpretation of Christ’s death. There are obviously some slight nuances and it goes deeper, but that’s the gist of it.
And this is to paarsurrey:
I greatly admire your search for truth and your receptivity to conversation about these questions. But I have a question: which account of Jesus’ life do you find to be accurate, the New Testament’s or the Quran’s? It seems that you believe the Quran, but I want to be sure before continuing the discussion - I don’t want to make any false assumptions. Thanks a lot.
That is the traditional 2,000 year interpretation of Christ’s death. There are obviously some slight nuances and it goes deeper, but that’s the gist of it.
And this is to paarsurrey:
I greatly admire your search for truth and your receptivity to conversation about these questions. But I have a question: which account of Jesus’ life do you find to be accurate, the New Testament’s or the Quran’s? It seems that you believe the Quran, but I want to be sure before continuing the discussion - I don’t want to make any false assumptions. Thanks a lot.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Naturally the basis of my curren belief is because of Quran/Islam/Muhammad . I believe it with entirety. I have read the Bible from cover to cover , both OT and NT, both Catholic and Protestant versions, a JWs version is also with me. I have enjoyed reading, at time I was overwhelmed with the events mentioned there, at other times I simply got bored. The account of Bible, sorry it may injur your feelings but you have asked it pertinently, is paradoxical sometimes or most of the times, so I choose the one that agree with the Quran; and this is useful for unity of these great faiths/religions.
My study of Bible through discussion in these forums is continued, I have a thirst for interfaith studies/comparison and finding means to unify the denominations/faiths/religions. For all this I am thankful to the **PromisedMessiah 1838-1908 **who was rich on thoughts in all these spheres, I am only a humble student of him.
I love Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and also PromisedMessiah 1838-1908 with the core of my heart. I thank GodAllahYHWH who sent all such great FRUITS of humanity for guidance of us all. A great people and brothers they were.
Thanks and regards
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angelusm
Guest
Literaly - some Jews and some Romans. In a spiritual meaning - all of people by our sins.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
Some Roman soldiers killed Jesus (the blood and water that came out of his lungs or chest cavity showed that the blood was separating into its component parts which happens after death). They were ordered to do so by Roman authorities at the request of the Sanhedrin (Jewish court). Jesus was brought to that court because of the disapproval of some Jewish leaders who were offended by what he was teaching. They could not bring even two witnesses that agreed on any charge. Finally, the high priest asked him, “are you the Christ, the son of God” and Jesus answered, “you have said that” and then he quoted a prophecy from the book of Daniel. The high priest and others there condemned him for blasphemy.
That said, Jesus forgave those who killed him. While hanging on the cross, he said, “Father, forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.” His willing death was the perfect sacrifice which made it possible for men to be reconciled to God. He died because we sin. We can never blame the Jewish people for killing Jesus. Jesus, Mary, Joseph, all the apostles, and the first followers of Jesus were Jewish. Salvation came to us from the Jews.
That said, Jesus forgave those who killed him. While hanging on the cross, he said, “Father, forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.” His willing death was the perfect sacrifice which made it possible for men to be reconciled to God. He died because we sin. We can never blame the Jewish people for killing Jesus. Jesus, Mary, Joseph, all the apostles, and the first followers of Jesus were Jewish. Salvation came to us from the Jews.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Jesus, after when he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position must have thanked GodAllahYHWH for saving his life and later secretly moved to Galilee fearful of them, he had no dialogue with any Jews and set off to the foreign lands where lost 10 lost tribes had settled.
Please follow the events rationally rather than inferring certain religious meaning from them which are seldom there.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I don’t agree with your outstretched unrelated approach. The Muslims, not a single one, was not involved in it.
Thanks
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Valke2
Guest
That’s your rational explanation? In other words, after reading in the Gospels the events leading up to the crucifixion of Jesus, the rational and reasonable explanation is that, instead of being resurrected, Jesus asked God to save him, and God saved his life. THen, when everyone was sleeping, Jesus snuck away to foriegn lands.
THis is a more rational explanation???
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi friendValke2
Now , what is bad about it? Jesus prophesized like this, he prayed like this, so it happened . If one won’t believe in witnessing of Jesus beforehand; then whom one would need to believe in.
Please, remain following the events rather than a flight in philosophical theology later woven at Rome, not mentioned in any secular, neutral historical document even.
Thanks
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Valke2
Guest
i’m not saying there’s anything bad about your explanation. But I don’t see it as being any more rational than the belief in what is set forth in the Gospels.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi friend Valke
I know as you have told that you are a Jew. You must have read that ten lost tribes of the Jews were settled in Iran, Afghanistan, North West of Pakistan, Kashmir, India and Tibet. That is now a part of history mentioned in many Encyclopedias.
What is your opinion about this?
Also kindly mention, why should it be strange for you that Jesus went to such places when he departed from Galilee?
Thanks friend
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juliamajor
Guest
And who is that oh Righteousone.Like I couldn’t Guess
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I’m supposing that they are East of the Euphrates, whoever they are.
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
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Valke2
Guest
Well, then they would be the found tribes, wouldn’t they
? I don’t have an opinion on where they settled. From my religious standpoint, I don’t see any significance. It would not be strange if Jesus while alive travelled. But to say God rescued him from the cross is a more rational belief than he was ressurected, I do not agree with. Both require Divine intervention and therefore both beliefs are just as rational as the other
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karens1234
Guest
The simple question was : Who killed Jesus (Catholic’s G-d)?
and inJESUS asnwered:
So, you are saying that “He (Catholic’s G-d) gave His life.” In other words "Your Catholic G-d, killed Himself, as such “your Catholic G-d committed suicide because no one killed your Jesus (Catholic G-d).”
From this, is it okay for you Catholics to commit suicide, since your very Catholic G-d, committed suicide, and killing himself is Kosher?
And when your Catholic G-d killed himself, for how long was He dead? And how *your Catholic Universe *was still functioning without a/the Catholic G-d? Or was your Catholic Universe running by a/the G-d of an another Christian denomination, whose G-d never died/committed suicide/killed by some bunch of criminals/cangroo courts?
and inJESUS asnwered:
inJESUS:
So, you are saying that “He (Catholic’s G-d) gave His life.” In other words "Your Catholic G-d, killed Himself, as such “your Catholic G-d committed suicide because no one killed your Jesus (Catholic G-d).”
From this, is it okay for you Catholics to commit suicide, since your very Catholic G-d, committed suicide, and killing himself is Kosher?
And when your Catholic G-d killed himself, for how long was He dead? And how *your Catholic Universe *was still functioning without a/the Catholic G-d? Or was your Catholic Universe running by a/the G-d of an another Christian denomination, whose G-d never died/committed suicide/killed by some bunch of criminals/cangroo courts?
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Freshman88
Guest
To give one’s life is not an act of suicide. When some says “he gave his life for his country” it means that he fought and as a result died while acting for his country. Likewise, Christ came on our behalf, and like the soldier, died on our behalf.
First of all, no, the act of Catholic suicide does not meet Jewish dietary laws.
Second of all, we worship God, not G-d.
Thirdly, since you have found this forum and know how to type and read then I suggest you take those skills and put them to use. Perhaps you could begin to use these skills to find out what Catholic’s actually believe. How rediculous does it sound that our God commited suicide and so we are to commit suicide as well. Pretty stupid right? … so why did you write it? I can only come to the conclusion that you are trying to be offensive.
I’ll spare you from that google trip, He did not kill Himself. Needless to say, it is quite difficult to nail yourself to a cross.
He descended to the dead for three days.
God has always been. This is a fundamental Catholic belief and characterstic of all the Abrahamic faiths.
Or was your Catholic Universe running by a/the G-d of an another Christian denomination,
Christians profess one God.
Who killed Christ is a complicated question. If the state of Texas executes a prisoner, who is responsible for that prisoner’s death? The government itself? those involved directly with the law process? Those who created the laws? Those who actually injected the lethal dose into the criminal? Perhaps it was the criminal himself?
As you can see, it isn’t clear. So let’s get to what we can say.
1)Christ died - God never ceased to be during this period.
2)He was setenced to death by the Roman government by the request of various individual Jews and local authorities.
3) Individual Roman soldiers nailed him to the Cross.
4) Christ’s death was an offering to God and this offering has the power to forgive us of our sins, both past and future. - Christians thus argue that if humans did not sin, Christ would not have to die. Hence why many Christians here have argued that we are all guilty - including Muslims despite what a Muslim poster has to say, unless of course: A) Jesus’ death doesn’t atone for our sins B) the specific human has never sinned, and is therefore not in need of atonement.
Now I am hesitant to apologize for the lack of charity in this post, but I find it hard to extend charity to posters who display such a disrespect to the Catholic faith. In fact, if I wasn’t procrastinating I would not have written this post because it is clear that you haven’t even begun to study the Catholic faith even though you make wild accusations (i.e suicide remarks).
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karens1234
Guest
First, my post was in response to inJESUS, not you.
Second, what I wrote was implications of inJESUS’ reply to my opening post.
Third, this section of this forum is titled “Non-Catholic Religions”, so in order to understand what Catholics really say/believe, here people of non-catholic faiths can ask questions from their perspectives/angles/pointviews. They come here either to share or increase their knowledge by asking/answering questions.
Fourth, if people like me already knew what Catholicism is all about then, why should they ask a learned Catholic like you, in the first place? Just to waste your/their own time?
Therefore, what is offensive that you found in my post?
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Seamus_L
Guest
It was the sins of all mankind that required Jesus to die on the cross, but it was the Jews who verbally demanded that he be crucified. I Thessalonians 2:15.
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Freshman88
Guest
my goodness, it is simply common sense that Christian belief has nothing to do with suicide.
And if you want to direct your post to one person, private message them - don’t use a public forum where I can choose to respond whether you like it or not.
Futhermore, it is offensive to ask what a faith is, take an answer and manipulate it to make said faith sound redicilous. It is quite clear that you have an agenda, and for whatever reason, you want to act ignorant/offensive.
I could do the same with Islam - for example, I could ask questions that give me an excuse that say that Mohammed was a bloodthirsty conquer, and therefore, it is appropriate for all Mulsims to be conquers. I see you doing something of a very similar manner - and if you aren’t, I suggest you treat the faith with more respect. (i.e. don’t assert something as doctrine that no one has made to be seen as doctrine)
Now I’ve given you your answers - are there any other questions you want to have answered, so you can make some other absurd demonstration that ends with Christianity being seen as ridiculous?
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Righteousone
Guest
Exactly, but people do not want to hear the truth, they do not want to hear the words of Scripture that reveals to us who truly wanted Christ dead. His own people turned their backs on Him. HIS OWN.
I have much compassion for the Jews, they are good people, but history is what it is.
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